Inserts to prevent pinch flats?

It has nothing to do with being on an ebike. My mention of it being an ebike was not even relevant to the problem. I just like to build a little atmosphere with my posts.

I’m running tyres well below the recommended pressure and as a result, I get occasionally get pinch flats.

Same thing happens on my hardtail if I drop the pressure too low.

This is why e-bikes cause more trail erosion

Incidentally, the tyres on the hardtail are the same width as those on my ebike. I therfore erode trails at a consistent rate, whichever bike I choose to ride.

Sorry, I dont think for a second that ebikes are to blame for the erosion of your trails. The bike doesn’t get up in the hills by itself. There are plenty of inconsiderate idiots on regular bikes too you know.

If there was a huge uptake in non assisted bikes, would you dislike trail bikes and blame them for erosion?

What you’re saying sounds very anti cycling. Obviously, being STW no one on here actually rides bikes but it’s not often I see the comments against the idea of people riding them.

Back on track… I eroded rode 30 odd miles today with more air in the back. No dings or punctures despite some less than careful line choices but it felt skittish.

I’m going to give an insert a go. I’ve narrowed it down to Panzer vs Rimpact. Very little between them really.

Have been running Cushcore XC in Assegai/DHR2 for last 1200 miles, no issues. Bit of a pig to fit initially (c. 20 mins of swearing). Just (last night) fitted Vittoria Airliner XC into a spare wheelset  (XR391 rims, 2.35 Barzo tyres with a few miles on them already). Absolute joy to fit. Took c.12 mins per end, and didn’t involve covering the kitchen in tyre spaff either. Looking forward to trying them.

This is why e-bikes cause more trail erosion.

I cause more trail erosion on my un powered bikes than I do on my Ebike on account of I ride them more than the Ebike.

Stupid statements are stupid.

Back on topic.

Inserts are not always the answer.

DH tyre and Rimpact Pro last week.

^ ouch.

Stick? Pointy rock through the sidewall?

Bit of a pig to fit initially (c. 20 mins of swearing)

Tru dat.

Try fitting them in 33mm CX tyres…#closetotears

🙂

No idea.

The trail is covered in large square loose rock on top of bedrock though.

Thought it was just a sidewall tear at first but it’s actually a snake bite.

Also smashed the valve out of the rim later on in the week too.

That was defo a flying rock.

One thing i have noticed with inserts is  sometimes they seem to stop the sealant getting to any small cuts in time to seal them up.

That hole for example didn’t actually blow any sealant out despite a measure and a half of Stans in the tyre.

Got the airliner in my enduro bike at the rear, it’s crap compared to the nukeproof ard ones on my ebike and they’re so much better.

The airliner rattles around in the wheel but was easier to put on.  I picked up the nukeproofs in the CRC firesale and didn’t notice that they were mullet ones – sweet baby jesus getting a 27.5 insert into a 29″ wheel was an interesting task, but got it done with a bit of trimming – It wasn’t like i could send them back!  We’re all running ridiculous low pressures now, it’s great. When i got a puncture that wouldn’t seal (i’d not topped up the sealant for ages) i rolled home on the insert.

Downside is that I definitely wouldn’t rate my chances of putting a tube in on the trailside.

The airliner rattles around in the wheel but was easier to put on.

It’s not the correct size then. There’s a careful balance between getting it tight enough not to rattle and still being reasonable to get on.

Well, a Rimpact V2 has been delivered!

I faffed around trying to decide for far to long and by the time I’d ordered it was too late for it to arrive before the weekend. I wish I’d have had it in on Sunday after a rock/ wheel incident that cost me a whole tyre full of sealant and a puncture on the bead that refused to seal.

Anyway… It’s a lot chunkier than I was expecting (hoping). I’m not looking forward to fitting it.

Next dilemma is whether I fit it with my current tyre for a proper comparison or whether I go back to an EXO casing. I have a feeling that whatever I choose is going to be fairly permanent given how much faff it’s going to be getting it on!

They are not that hard to fit or remove. Like any tyre make sure the bead is in the middle of the rim. With an insert that means using a tyre lever to push the bead under the insert. Do that an it’s easy enough (even on the 33mm CX tyres I did last night with tubolite inserts).

If you want a real bas##rd of a challenge (pun intended) try fitting challenge hand made tubeless CX tyres! The first bead on those is harder than any MTB tyre I’ve ever fitted before and the second is worse. The hand made tyres are fussy when new so very difficult to hold in shape and they the bead on. For these it was critical the bead next to the valve went on last because otherwise there was not enough stretch in the tyre (the valve makes distance longer). Also had to use a tyre key (not lever!) to get the last bit of the bead which I’ve never had to do with MTB tyres with or without inserts.

Dear god.

So, had a bit of a wobble on the back wheel after clouting a rock last week so whipped the tyre off to try and sort it. Found a cracked nipple so replaced that and patched the tape.

Refitted the tyre loosely and put the insert in. It took some determination and cable ties but I got it in. I just about managed to get the tyre fully onto the rim but the bead had curled around the insert and no amount of pumping was going to seat it.

Insert out, tyre off. Cleaned the old sealant off the bead (properly this time), refitted and seated the tyre without the insert. Dumped the air and pulled one side of the tyre off.

Stuffed the insert in, wrestled the tyre into place and managed to get it inflated only to find air was leaking from the spoke holes so added some sealent and hoped for the best.

That didn’t happen so pulled it all off again and found the patch of tape had lifted so retaped the whole wheel.

Tyre back on, insert in, second bead on. Inflated the tyre with no more leaks around spokes only to find that the puncture I’d picked up last week hadn’t sealed so stabbed a noodle through the tyre. That was never going to work because I hadn’t added any sealant…

Added some sealant and seated the tyre. Found that a couple of the other repair noodles were pinched between the bead and the rim so had leaks. Deflated and unseated the tyre, wiggled the noodles around so they wouldn’t get pinched. Inflated the tyre, no leaks anywhere!

Stood back to marvel at my own magnificence and realised the tyre was on backwards.

It’s now fitted and inflated in the correct orientation. 5 hours after I started.

Im not sure what I’m enjoying more, the taste of beer or the soothing coolness of the glass against my harrowed skin.

This insert thing had better be amazing…

I bet you go out and pinch the front tyre.

Dropped on a girl at the side of the trail in Finale a couple of weeks ago who had crashed and a rock had snapped the valve off on her front wheel. She had three guys with her and they had snapped all there tyre levers trying to get the tyre off. It had a insert fitted. They had an inertube but couldn’t move the tyre at all to fit it

We had some plastic coated metal levers and a spare valve in the back pack. Managed to move the tyre and insert enough to get the valve out and a new one in.

No way was the tyre coming off the rim trail side. She thought she had a 12 km push back to Finale

I’m not convinced they are worth the faff when it goes wrong on the trail.

 sharkattack

I bet you go out and pinch the front tyre.

Quiet you!

I managed to do the whole thing using just the tools that I carry in my rucksack. Made a point of doing that. I reckon I can get it off trailside if I have to but I really hope I don’t have to.

How well I’d fare doing it at the end of a long ride, in the rain and the wind with fading light and enthusiasm is questionable though.

I’ve also been carrying a spare valve around me since the same thing happened to me. Snapped it off at the rim when the wheel went into an unseen rut. Pretty sure my pump wouldn’t reseat the tyre though so not sure why I bother!

I reckon you could ride 12km on a Rimpact if you had to. You couldn’t ride a flat tyre.

I’ve been very vocal about how difficult they are to fit and remove but to be fair I think mine have loosened up a bit. The last tyre change was relatively painless.

I’d still always run a pair though! The last tyre I destroyed was a front one. For the negligible weight difference I’d take the security every time.

Since running the Rimpacts I’ve had zero broken rims or slashed tyres. They’ve saved me a small fortune.

Don’t use them and can’t see the benefit of them myself. Seems to be a complete pita to fit (and remove), and if you run a sensible psi, it shouldn’t be really be needed. Sensible being 20-25psi.
Saying that, the only flats that I seem to fix are for the kids at coaching sessions, so appears my mates have their own technique sorted to prevent pinch flats as well.
It appears plenty people can’t ride without them…and there are plenty who can.
I’d try 5psi more in the tyre and see how that goes first. The ebike is heavier and generates more torque so it will cause more erosion, but it will also have slightly heavier impacts, so a wee bit more air should help.

Don’t use them and can’t see the benefit of them myself. Seems to be a complete pita to fit (and remove), and if you run a sensible psi, it shouldn’t be really be needed.

Where do you live? How heavy are you? How fast are you? What trails do you ride? What bike do you ride? Are you a DH racer or a mincer? Do you ride down bridelways or cliff faces? When’s the last time you hung up on a gap and exploded a rim?

I get that they’re not for everyone but pretending they’re unnecessary for everyone is just daft.

Yeah, aware all that has an impact on choice…I’m not as heavy as I used to be, but my musings aren’t just based on my riding…got plenty mates who are properly heavy on their bikes and riding far rockier trails than I do and they don’t run them either.
It must work as plenty folk use them, but I also suspect a touch more air and that will help do the same.

I always run 20-25 psi but adding more air is not the same as having a 30mm foam crash barrier between your rims and tyres.

I’m not saying you can’t ride without them obviously. I’ve ridden mostly DH style riding since the 90’s and for almost all of that time, inserts didn’t exist. For me they’re a very welcome development.

At 20psi, I was getting pinch flats. At 25,the back end was just skittish and horrible.

I remember watching a Sam Pilgrim video of him doing stupid but entertaining stuff. He said he runs 40psi in his tyres.

I think riding style is important to consider when we talk about tyre pressure. I don’t want a bike that feels like a coiled spring, I want something forgiving that let’s me bimble way down steep techy stuff with as much control as possible. For that, I need soft tyres and suspension that works for me. Im sure if you stuck a Pro rider (or even someone mildly better) on my bike, they’d find it soft and rubbish. Equally, if I jumped on a competition ready enduro bike, I’d probably fall off at the first corner and burst into flames at the side of the track. Different bikes for different things.

With my tyres at a pressure that gives the grip level I need, they were too soft and punctured too easily so inserts make sense. I’m still not totally sure I’m sold on the whole, ride damping feel that gets thrown about but time will tell I guess.

First ride today. Nothing to report. Didn’t actually feel any different really. To be fair, I was in Surrey Hills which isn’t somewhere I’ve ever had issues with pinch flats. It’s fairly tame as far as terrain goes so not really the best test.

I did come up short on a step down/drop thing and cased the back wheel into the landing. I would have expected to hear a nasty twang as the wheel hit but it just made a thud. Maybe it’s the insert, maybe it would have just made thud without the insert. We’ll never know…

One thing I did notice though is if I pick up the bike and drop it, the front would always have a dead kind of landing. The rear would usually make a bit of a twang noise. Even at 40psi, the rear of the bike had a ‘bag of sand’ feel to it when I dropped it. So I guess that’s different…

It’s all highly scientific here.

Best test will next time I’m on rocky stuff, that’ll tell me whether it was worth it or not.

Oh, and if ebikes erode trails faster because of the extra torque and weight… Does a 85kg rider with a 400w FTP on a 15kg normal bike do more or less damage than a 70kg rider with a 200w FTP on a 20kg ebike?

And, if either of them fall over in the woods, does anyone hear a noise?

Another here who finds them pointless.

Tried the rimpacts, tyres were fine to get on and off.

Found they offered zero extra sidewall support so went back to my normal pressure, 28-30 psi in the rear on my trail bike at 95kg.

Even on my dh bike with dh tyres, 28 psi is as low as I’ll go, I’d just have be on steep, wet, natural trails to drop that low.

Reasonable rider, ie normally the one of the faster in the group unless there’s a sponsored racer. Rides all over.

When I drop the pressures, I don’t find the slippy bits any more grippy, but I do find the grippier bits less predictable, hence can’t load up as hard to get as much grip.

I think lowering pressures loads is a placebo.

Another here who finds them pointless.

Are you still damaging rims, or were you not doing so in the first place?

Most of my rides involve rocks and they very obviously protect rims from damage in my experience.

Inserts have a place. On the rear wheel of a hardcore hardtail. Or in mud spikes when the weather is filthy. On a e-bike. Or riding exclusively rocky trails. For the average rider on a 150mm trail bike riding a bit of everything, they ain’t worth the cost or hassle of fitting.

The other thing is bead retention, some tyres don’t hold on very well at lower pressures by themselves and end up spurting sealant around the rim.

My Wild Enduro Fronts (non-racing version) spurt sealant at 24psi on rocky tracks and trails, but fine at 20psi with Rimpacts.