Indoor Ski Slope and more for Merthyr

Looks interesting. Environmental concerns of indoor skiing aside, it’s not going to do BPW any harm is it. Time to invest in a chairlift or Gondola maybe? Great for UK snow sport too. Lots of the EU teams use an indoor slope in Belgium(I think) for out of season training.

https://www.rhydycarwest.com/

Environmental concerns of indoor skiing aside

That is quite hard to look past.

And given the volatility of the energy market currently it’s quite the punt building one now.

The environmental aspects are purely down to how well insulated the building is; a custom built building should pose minimal issues if designed & built properly.

The likes of Braehead struggled to be viable as they tried to build an indoor slope in a fairly crappy adjunct to a shopping centre with inevitable results.

BPW have stated several times that a chairlift or gondola just can’t work at their site. It’s too windy to operate a lot of the time and the cost, even for a 2nd hand lift, is prohibitive.

I struggle to see how they can make the finances for the snowsport stuff work in Merthyr…haven’t a few indoor facilities closed recently that are much closer to large city populations?

Energy costs must be crazy for that sort of thing…is there something clever that could be done with heat exchangers to use the waste heat from the ‘big freezer’ to heat the indoor waterpark? *

*not an engineer!

Haven’t there been plans that keep popping up for this for about 20 years or so? Never seesm to get off the ground…

Maybe I’m thinking of a different one but theres deffinitely been other plans for this sirt of thing in Wales somewhere.

Maybe I’m thinking of a different one but theres deffinitely been other plans for this sirt of thing in Wales somewhere.

There were definitely big “sporting destination” plans for Merthyr around 4 or 5 years ago. I’m sure there was a thread

I believe it is proposed to be mainly powered using its own renewable energy but yes hard to look past the cost.

I’ve find memories of going dry slope skiing in Merthyr.

I saw it and just thought someone is trying to sell some land at an inflated price.

IMO there just isnt the population in that area to pay back the costs involved. Sheffield Ski Village talked about a snow slope back in the day, but it wasnt viable with Manc being so close (relative)

There were definitely big “sporting destination” plans for Merthyr around 4 or 5 years ago

Not many people would be prepared to travel 2+ hrs to pay big money to ski down a very boring piste

South facing & covered in solar panels would offer a lot of power potential.

Anyone know how the Afan adventure resort is progressing?

Didn’t look to be a lot happening last time I passed it last year.

Work started a year ago

That is quite hard to look past.

And given the volatility of the energy market currently it’s quite the punt building one now.

Reminds me of the BBC doing a piece on climate change and the guy from Cairngorm complaining that it was costing them a fortune to run the snow making machines for longer as the winters were warmer.  He’s literally stood in front of a giant industrial chiller that’s trying to freeze the side of a small mountain.

Surely an indoor one isn’t so bad, the temperature differential isn’t any worse than heating a lot of houses, and you could reject the heat into something useful like a swimming pool?

My Irony meter needed to be sent off for recalibration as it went so far off it’s scale.

and you could reject the heat into something useful like a swimming pool?

the proposal also includes a tropical waterpark so it’s quite possible they’ve thought of that! 😃

Not many people would be prepared to travel 2+ hrs to pay big money to ski down a very boring piste

I probably would travel to it as part of a long weekend – day at BPW/slope/waterpark – would be pretty cool! Presumably you’d have a jump line etc on the slope though so there’s a bit more to do than just go from top to bottom!!

Notaspoon, AFAIK Snowmaking only works below freezing so not cooled, it uses the ambient temp, compressed air and water. It uses energy but not for cooling so no large chillers involved.. (Moot point, I know).

I would use this place. Several have been suggested in the South West. Swindon, Weston s Mare to name two.

My kids ski once a week at the local dry slope, I can see us using an indoor one as well but only occasionally.

As far as BPW and chairlifts.. Have they been to the Alpes Some pretty challenging areas have had lifts for years with no major issues..

The environmental aspects are purely down to how well insulated the building is; a custom built building should pose minimal issues if designed & built properly.

But if the building is actually big enough to ski in then the environment costs of building the building itself will be huge

Presumably you’d have a jump line etc on the slope though so there’s a bit more to do than just go from top to bottom!!

If Chill Factore is a representative case study, then that is a hell of a can of worms!

Being in proximity to enough people would be the main (none environmental impact) problem that I could see.  Chill Factore is closed to a hell of a lot of people, same for Tamworth I guess.  As far as I know, then if the snow making/cooling process was generating heat, then this would be able to be used elsewhere.

I’m not really too clued up on the demographics of the Merthyr and surrounding areas, my gut is that they’d struggle for visitor numbers…. it’s worth a long trip to BPW given how good the riding is…..less so to ride a piste of a few hundred metres.  Maybe if it was the size of say Langraaf then it’d be worth it.

Skiing is nigh on dead…. Loads of resorts have closed in the last twenty years. The only viable ski resorts left will be so high up, ticket prices so high that the majority of folk will be priced out of the sport.

Part of the reason skiing is dying is everyone travelling to go skiing and the construction of indoor ski places.

Ironic, really.

Still, one benefit is the bike resorts opening earlier and many old ski resorts building tracks and/or opening up to bikers.

Some of the ski resorts in the Bavarian Forest on the boarder to Czech are open year round to bikers. Resorts in Austria were clearing the snow from the bike trails so that they could open up at the end of March.

That is quite hard to look past.

And given the volatility of the energy market currently it’s quite the punt building one now.

No different to bike parks I would say, horrible environmentally unfriendly places

Interesting to see all these reactions.

I’d like to take you back in time 20 or 25 years to a small northern ex mining town called ‘Castleford’, down the road from where I lived and where my Dad worked (taught!). About as miserable a place you can think of, consisting of closed down mineshafts, unemployment, and decrepit back to back terraces.

Ask the locals what they think of the idea of a dry ski slope, and they’d say you were mad/what is skiing/are you on drugs.

I invite you take to a little look now and tell me its not a success, with the ski slope being one of the main drivers for all the development, jobs, opportunities, entertainment and new housing etc that has gone into the area within that satelite view since around the year 2000.

I would say that Alpin’s view is a bit exaggerated. Skiing is probably having a bit of a midlife crisis but not or nearly dead or dying..

https://en.la-plagne.com/discover/ski-area/webcams/roche-de-mio

I do have fears of how available it will be for my kids when they are my age though.

I do have fears of how available it will be for my kids when they are my age though.

I watched a vid of someone skiing the Valle Blanche a few weeks back on YouTube. I was astounded to see how far the glacier has shrunk since last skied out the bottom end in the late 1990s. The glacier has lost 100s ft of depth 🙁  the stairs out was bad enough in my day, let alone how many you have to do now. In fact we did consider skiing back down in to Cham which is un heard of these days apparently.

You can see it though when you fly over the alps in the summer. The white areas are much smaller. Its also been noted this season though too that the snow line is much higher.

Talking of La Plagne a friend lives and works out there. Bellecote has some brilliant off piste skiing, only the access out from the bottom has not been possible most of this season, which basically means Bellecote face is not ski able unless you like walking.

Funky, Yes, I have been to several glaciers in the last few seasons that I remember being different from previous years. Grand Pisaillas at Fornet in Val D being quite strikingly different from when I was last there..

Cham have just spent millions of euros building a new lift to get people from the nose of the Mer de Glace to the Montenvers station which used to stop at the glacier edge. The new lift replaces an old chairlift that was now too far from the glacier to be of any use. I have also skied down to Cham from the Glacier, it was in the 90’s and I wanted to be Scott Schmit..

https://www.chamonix.net/english/news/chamonix-new-telecabine-montenvers-mer-de-glace#:~:text=Feb%2015%20%2F%20Comments-,Chamonix%3A%20new%20Telecabine%20between%20Montenvers%20%26%20the%20Mer%20de%20Glace,been%20blamed%20on%20the%20weather.

In my mind I’d make a massive Peltier cell powered by a wind turbine and sandwich it between two mega insulated buildings. Have a freezing cold building on one side and a toasty warm tropical building on the other side.
I’m available for any other engineering projects you might have!…….

I was astounded to see how far the glacier has shrunk… You can see it though when you fly over the alps in the summer.

he said, without a hint of irony 😂

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-41169601

you can still see the outline of the old ski slope on the hill on the east side of the A470 before the BPW roundabout. They bought snow machines on site, but someone got the meteorology assessments wrong!

There’s a long history of big development proposals like this in Wales, which often don’t get off the ground, or end up going bust taking a load of public money with it. There’s been schemes for racetracks, movie studios and airports. BPW, the Zip World empire and Bluestone are the few successful leisure ones.

Notaspoon, AFAIK Snowmaking only works below freezing so not cooled, it uses the ambient temp, compressed air and water.

@TheDTs Most of the Scottish resorts use the TechnoAlpin Snow Factory which can make “snow” when the temperature of above zero. They use a LOT of diesel.

There’s a long history of big development proposals like this in Wales, which often don’t get off the ground, or end up going bust taking a load of public money with it.

Did the surf lake thing ever work…?

@bear Grease, I didn’t know that. I was basing my comment on Alpine snow making. Good to know.

The Wave thing is an interesting comparison.

We have “The Wave” near Bristol. They are VERY keen to talk about their green ethos and credentials. It’s made from thousands of tonnes of reinforced concrete and uses electricity to move large bodies of water. Im not certain of its environmental balance…vs driving to a beach and its cost. The north Wales one, I have no idea, it was an early adopter of the tech.

Xsite at Braeside was awesome but it was also pretty old, apparently the building was never well insulated and the whole thing basically depended on cheap energy… But also as mentioned the location wasn’t great.

Still, pretty amazing to walk out onto the balcony in the summer and have people boarding and skiing and kids sledging, it was just a really happy place. If it’d been local to me I’d have gone and just hung out there and enjoyed the weirdness

The North Wales one, im pretty sure, has shut down.

Yep…. The machinery was hard to keep functioning correctly apparently.

Such a shame as it’s a good idea.

(Although seemingly always cold!)

No different to bike parks I would say, horrible environmentally unfriendly places

C’mon, be serious for a moment. You’re actually trying to say that bike parks are in the same league as artificial ski fridges environmentally?

The wave in Bristol is now apparently totally ( or close to) running off energy it generates from its own solar array

. At least that’s hat what they say. Hard to say what the impact is compared to driving to North Devon to surf…..

the north wales wave pool ( surf snowdonia ) used a different (earlier ) technology that is evidently less reliable but also offers a vastly reduced no of users per hour of function. That’s part of the reason it’s not still going.

there are already commercially viable pools like the Bristol wave in Switzerland, S. Korea and Australia and more on the way ( north of brum for example ) so that’s a model that seems to work.

worth also pointing out that the snowdomes in Tamworth, Milton Keynes, Manchester and Castleford have all survived for a long time now. It must be approaching 30 years for Tamworth.

None of those are anywhere near as accessible for the south west as Merthyr would be

Also there is n argument that as visiting the actual mountains become more and more exclusive / expensive, the viability of indoor slopes increases as an affordable way to go sliding on snow for uk residents who love it instead of just giving up on being able to do it.

@Northwind – I’d agree but if you made a map of where the existing skiing population of Scotland lived, Braehead was a pretty dumb place to put it if the mission was to be commercially successful.  Perhaps they through they were bringing winter sports to the people of paisley?

C’mon, be serious for a moment. You’re actually trying to say that bike parks are in the same league as artificial ski fridges environmentally?

I don’t know.  It’s easy to overlook the vast amounts of travelling done to get to bike parks, with a well designed building and utilisation of the heat for something the numbers might actually mean the transport element is a very big part.  Stick a bike on your roof/back and efficiency of the transport just got worse too.

poly
Free Member

@Northwind – I’d agree but if you made a map of where the existing skiing population of Scotland lived, Braehead was a pretty dumb place to put it if the mission was to be commercially successful. Perhaps they through they were bringing winter sports to the people of paisley?

I read somewhere that the logic was that like mountain biking, skiing is a sport everyone’s used to travelling for and that most enthusiasts drive (or fly!) to so the location wasn’t really important as long as it was closer to Glasgow and Edinburgh than Aviemore, and had actual snow. I mean, I guess it’s not really worse to get to than Hillend from Edinburgh?

But the first time we went we were on the buses and it was such a pain in the cock.

I struggle to see how this will be viable to (and I grew up partly in Merthyr and still go there regularly to see relatives), it’s not exactly in the middle of nowhere but it isn’t particularly easy to get to either (especially on public transport). Assuming it ever gets built then after the initial honeymoon period I can’t see there’d be enough visitors. Merthyr isn’t exactly an affluent area so regular local visitors won’t be numerous and as it will be a overnight trip for many people then outside of school holiday peaks I can’t see how they’ll get the numbers. There’s not really much else in the immediate area apart from BPW and that will only interest a small fraction of the visitors.

I’m hoping at least they’ll install some 150kw chargers there though so there’s better options than the 50kw ones dotted about there already

If you want a completely ridiculous snow resort idea, look no further than the Saudis. https://www.neom.com/en-us/regions/trojena

Just going back to the Surf Snowdonia posts – I didn’t realise it had closed, I called in once on my way back from somewhere and I must say it didn’t look very inviting – the water wasn’t exactly crystal clear and it seemed to take awhile for the waves to generate.

It also seemed to be a lot of concrete and energy to provide an experience to a select group of people.