I'm a Christian, unless you're gay

duckman – Member

See above TJ. But then you are always right natch. Answer the question, is that not a good set of plans to target the spread of Aids?

No – it is responsible for increasing the spread of aids. Teh only sensible approach would be to promote condom use.

The typical patient is a young woman between 18 and 30 years of age. She is wheeled into the examining room in a hospital chair or dragged in, supported by her sister, aunt, or brother. She is frequently delirious; her face is gaunt; her limbs look like desiccated twigs. Surprisingly, the young woman is already a mother many times over, yet she will not live to see her children grow up. More shocking still, she is married; her husband infected her with the deadly virus.

This is the reality: a married woman living in Southern Africa is at higher risk of becoming infected with HIV than an unmarried woman. Extolling abstinence and fidelity, as the Catholic Church does, will not protect her; in all likelihood she is already monogamous. It is her husband who is likely to have HIV. Yet refusing a husband’s sexual overtures risks ostracism, violence, and destitution for herself and her children.

Given these realities, isn’t opposing the use of condoms tantamount to condemning countless women to death? In the midst of the AIDS epidemic, which has already killed tens of millions and preys disproportionately on the poor, the condom acts as a contra mortem and its use is justified by the Catholic consistent ethic of life.

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=19561

Do any of you really feel that you’ve gained anything during all of these pages of drivel? Really?

I went out for a ride. Then had a lovely lobster Caesar salad with a glass of chablis. This was a good thing.

You sad sacks seem to have spent all day going round in circles, somehow thinking that arguing on an obscure cycling website will change the world. It won’t.

We were just killing time while we waited to hear what you had for lunch. Thanks goodness you’ve taken the trouble to tell us. 🙂

Yes, but shouting (metaphorically) at chubby British mountain bikers will not change that scenario. In some ways it detracts from the real issue because of the way you express it..

Kenny, it was superb, let me tell you! Lovely lobster tails in a delightfully light batter, with a perfect amount of parmesan, sauce and lettuce. Oh, and some very delicate garlic croutons. And my favourite premier cru Chablis – Montee de Tonerre, to wash it all down.

🙂

Duckman – this is the best way to reduce the transmission of HIV

Condoms and HIV prevention
Condom use is a critical element in a comprehensive, effective and sustainable
approach to HIV prevention and treatment
Prevention is the mainstay of the response to AIDS. Condoms are an integral and essential
part of comprehensive prevention and care programmes, and their promotion must be
accelerated. In 2007, an estimated 2.7 million people became newly infected with HIV. About
45% of them were young people from 15 to 24 years old, with young girls at greater risk of
infection than boys.
The male latex condom is the single, most efficient, available technology to reduce
the sexual transmission of HIV and other sexually transmitted infections.

http://www.unaids.org/en/media/unaids/contentassets/dataimport/pub/basedocument/2009/20090318_position_paper_condoms_en.pdf

Lovely lobster tails in a delightfully light batter

😕 Who had the rest of the lobster then ?

So what does it mean to be a “Christian”? Do you believe in the Bible, or in some subset of the Bible that appeals to you? Don’t misunderstand, if you want to believe in fairy stories of any description, that’s fine with me, but I just don’t see what is the point of identifying oneself as a “Christian” if one does not actually adhere to the rule book.

No idea, never been a Christian. My wife is a Catholic and does indeed seem to pick and choose what bits to believe in. She’s a tolerant soul, or we wouldn’t have got married 😉 To answer the second question from a bystanders point of view, I guess she takes comfort from her faith without needing to follow all the rules.

BTW, if you want to refer to people’s beliefs as fairy stories, that implies very strongly that you aren’t fine with it, unless you are generally a rude person. I share none of my wifes beliefs but I’m able to discuss them without denigrating her position.

Kenny, it was superb, let me tell you! Lovely lobster tails in a delightfully light batter, with a perfect amount of parmesan, sauce and lettuce. Oh, and some very delicate garlic croutons. And my favourite premier cru Chablis – Montee de Tonerre, to wash it all down.

No gravy?
Not a hint of pie?
Distinct lack of chips?
Absence of beer?

Do you need a loan old chap? Times a bit hard?

Kenny, it was superb, let me tell you! Lovely lobster tails in a delightfully light batter, with a perfect amount of parmesan, sauce and lettuce. Oh, and some very delicate garlic croutons. And my favourite premier cru Chablis – Montee de Tonerre, to wash it all down.

Pretty much what I had! – Fish finger sandwich and garlic bread. And some Schloer.

Captain, have there been any decent vintages of Chablis recently? Have to be honest, thought you’d be a Grand Cru man myself 😉 Where’s the Montee do Tonerre from, and does it have the mineral quality that I associate with good Chablis but find so hard to find?

RichP, Montée de Tonnerre is perhaps the best blend of value and taste that you can find in an old world white. Delicious with seafood.

Mineral? Yes, but also somewhat light and fruity with it.

This is my pick;

Wow flash awesome

A thread is not a thread without you pointing out how rubbish it is or what psuedo upper class toffs outing you have done since it started.
Thanks

Ps lay off the wine as it seems to make you whine 😉

Junky, just trying to highlight the futility of the arguments on here by posting something equally pointless and inane! 😉

It was a lovely lunch, mind you.

CFH does it have a nice buttery finish, where is it from, I like a nice full on buttery Chardonnay.

Cheers Captain, as I feared though it’s £25-30 a bottle so approaching what GC costs anyway. I’ve been spoiled as to what Chablis is I think, some friends returned from Burgundy a few years back with a well aged bottle and it was stunning. Am starting to think that what I found so special might also be present in wines from, say, Alsace though.

Ladies and Gentlemen, our regular broadcast will resume shortly. Thank you for you cooperation

😆

And what would our wine buff recommend to compliment a black pudding supper?

Duckman, that needs beer. Hearty, full bodied beer.

Might I recommend a bottle of Fuller’s Golden Pride?

Good thread this. Topical, for the time of year and all that.

I’d like to wade in a wee bit.

Slightly OT, but tts interesting that so many would eradicate faith and religion entirely from society, or at least “The State” (whatever that is). Here’s a thought for them-

What fosters tolerance?

Here’s an imaginary scenario for you:

Imagine we lived in a world where we all had the same hair-colour, eye colour, were of similar height, enjoyed the same music, same books, and agreed on our politics. In short, the differences between us were so scant that they were practically non-existent. In this world, there would be no need for any kind of tolerance, for tolerance only exists where it is required.

I don’t live in this world, and know that none of you do, either. I can see children growing up and making choices in opposition to their parents wishes, just because they want to be different. Political parties with opposing views, borne out of their traditions, their convictions and a desire to be in power. Schisms in religious groups over articles of faith and dogma. And so on.

Humans by their nature will always, either because of environmental change, or competition for food, or desire for a mate, or even a desire for immortality, wilfully find ways to be different, to stand apart and be noticed, to advance, change, survive, in whatever way they can. Its part of what got us down from the trees in the first place. Accepting this means accepting the need for tolerance, born out of recognising differences in others, the differences in ourselves, and finding a way to live with the difference.

So is “faith”, or religious practice, divisive? I would say that, generally anyway, no- after all, different faiths reflect the society we all live in and the differences within it, and homogenising society would not lead to greater tolerance- just the opposite in fact. What happens when these children go out into the wide world and find we’re not all the same? How do they learn to cope as adults when all they’ve known is bland sameness?

We need instead to flex the muscle of tolerance and celebrate difference, otherwise it will grow flaccid and atrophy. Accept our differences instead of attempting what amounts to cultural fascism. It won’t work, and you know why? Because differences spring up as a reaction to homogeneity. Suppression = growth.

Christ, btw, never turned away thieves and prostitutes, and though I can’t speak for him, I have the impression that if he was around today they’d be welcome in his tent. The outcasts (and for all the advances they’ve made, in many parts of society homosexuals are sadly still outcasts) were always welcome at his table.

There’s a vast difference between canon and what the man did, I feel.

Anyway, to get back to the original subject of the thread…

CaptainFlashheart – Member

Kenny, it was superb, let me tell you! Lovely lobster tails in a delightfully light batter, with a perfect amount of parmesan, sauce and lettuce. Oh, and some very delicate garlic croutons. And my favourite premier cru Chablis – Montee de Tonerre, to wash it all down.

What are you, some sort of poof?

codybrennan

Tolerance – once the religious tolerate the non religious and allow us to go about our lives without them attempting to tell us what to do then they can be accepted. Until they keep it to consenting adults in private they have to be challenged. How many more must die because of religion?

So is “faith”, or religious practice, divisive? I would say that, generally anyway, no

very. From the sectarianism of northern Ireland to the religious wars of the middle east.

The thing is this thread is about the churches view of homosexuality, and most people on here have an open minded view,the ones who dont, dont post just incase theyre seen as homophobic, and theyre not usually christians, but use the term the bible says ………………………………,to defend their views, sometimes violently, and does the church say anything NO.

Allowing condom use should have nothing at all to do with an old bloke in rome, it should be individuals right to decide, wether they want to catch some debilitating illness, or survive.

What are you, some sort of poof?

and Christian ??? CFH what water to turn into wine, a nice spring water from the foothills of Monc Blonc 😉

What’s fosters tolerance?

The strange inbuilt ability to drink vast quantities of weak Aussie lager whilst watching England win an Ashes series down under.

TJ tbf to the catholic church they do say don’t have sex which is a decent way not to contract aids. The fact that It’s been shown that the scheme doesn’t really work in the real world suggests either wilful stupidity or more worryingly they don’t care. The intervention they do is more indefensible. Anyway “Catholic church makes people get aids” is a bit contentious argument.

Flashy arguing the toss is what blokes do, whether its religion or wot tyres on STW or “was that really a penalty” or “the trouble with arsenal is…..” down the pub, given the choice um sure everyone here would have gone for a ride and had a slap up meal (something less nobby for me please) but instead we’re stuck somewhere with only an internet connection for entertainment……. and you can only watch so much octopron before you feel a bit dirty.

Anyway this wasnt sposed to be a religious bashing thread it was sposed to be a let’s all be nice thread

Well I’m back from Afan (great weekend riding BTW, fantastic route around the Gower peninsula too) and I see apologists at it again.

The whole argument is pretty simple really.

If you’re a christian and you read the bible then I guess you think homosexuality is “wrong”. You’re wrong. 100% wrong. So wrong you could be winner of the Wrongest Wronger in the Biggest Wrong Contest of the Glen of the McWrongs in Wrongsville.

If you’re a christian and you read the bible and think that homosexuality is OK then I’d be happy to have a beer with you (on the understanding that you don’t blather on about your religion or I’ll start talking about gay sex).

If you’re a atheist/agnostic (like moi) and think homosexuality is wrong then you’re most probably second in the above contest. Some would say winner, due to the fact you don’t have a Big Book of Stories to fall back on.

If you’re a atheist/agnostic and think homosexuality is OK then you are more than welcome to join us for that beer. Mine’s a lager, by the way. We can talk about bikes and going to Afan. Did I mention I have just come back from there? Lovely time on the Whites Level. Cleared final descent of Y Wal too! 😀

Lager? You big …oh…

If you’re a christian and you read the bible and think that homosexuality is OK then I’d be happy to have a beer with you (on the understanding that you don’t blather on about your religion or I’ll start talking about gay sex)

any chance we can do that by phone 😉 😳

Anyway “Catholic church makes people get aids” is a bit contentious argument.

true but , like having TJ On your side in an argument*, it is not helping and just making things worse

* JOKE

Belief in the Christ and the message of hope is what defines Christianity, not adherence to 2000 year old middle-eastern social conventions. The old churches tie themselves in knots over dogma, the power of modern Islam and the scorn of the Atheists. Meanwhile, Christians quietly get on with loving God and all fellow men; Amen to that!

Happy Easter to one and all.

As usual Adam says it better than me

Apart from the bit about sex, that never works for me 😕

… Go on, my child…. 😆

+1 for Buzz.

TJ has a point. The catholic “pro-life” organisation puts up posters like this:

The old churches tie themselves in knots over dogma

Heretic.

What you need is a good stretch in the rack my man.

Adam, you need to post about your weekend here

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/describe-your-best-dayweekend-on-a-bike-ever

especially as I’m trying to get the thread off the ground 😉

Got a GPS log of your Gower route?

Some of the somewhat poisonous stuff here about the church seems an awful long way from my own experience. Oppressive.

clubber – done!

oldnpastit – not mine. Ye gods I have been at the tail end of christian bile due to my sexuality. Oppressive nasty stuff indeed. And I only wear lycra for cycling. Though if David Beckham asked nicely I’m sure I could accommodate. 😉

emsz: don’t be soft. One day I’d love to meet you for real. I think you’re fab! 😀

buzz: difficult unless someone with sense could rip up the bible and replace it with a single page that basically says something like “This Jesus bloke died for your sins, just be excellent to each other!”. Though I guess even if you did schisms would happen based upon what the word ‘excellent’ meant.

Afan was great by the way. Tra-la-la! 😀

Adam W,Welcome back from Afan and being Jedified, i take it, neither made you straight.

Well done for fighting the temptation. 😯

Where in scotland is Wrongsville.

Hi project!

No, didn’t make me straight. Sorry folks but ‘eww’. If there was a pill that would make me straight I’d flush it down the loo – even though I get loads of abuse (mickey taking and worse, much much worse) there is no way I would change who and what I am. For me being gay is abso-effing-lutely fantastic. And I hope for those who are straight that they also feel the same way about themselves.

Thought people did think it weird when I was discussing Welsh Ninja Sheep yesterday and singing the Lone Ranger theme when thundering down a hill on Saturday. 😆

Jedi is one cool dude. What others have said is true – when at Afan I kept hearing this voice telling me ‘push’, ‘leg down!’, ‘push point’. It also, weirdly, helped my confidence. Strange that. I guess its the usual Jedi mind control tricks he calls into play. 😀

Wrongsville is somewhere to the north east of Scotland I think. Just close to ‘Slightlyincorrecttown’ and ‘Youresurelymistakenham’. 😀

Ta, Adam 😉