If you thought mandatory full facers were a pain for UKGE…

The level of arse kissing fan buoyism is just unreal on the UKGE FB page! Informed comments and questions met by “because that’s how it is lolz”, without a hint of questioning ’em or even bothering to understand the difference between personal accident and public liability insurance, worst is all the likes the dumb shit comments get.

As a comparison, I was quoted a premium of £40 pcm for £1000 pcm payout (for a maximum of two years) if I can’t work though having an accident on my bike – didn’t cover for DH though.

This is at 50 y/o. Another riding buddy (rugby player) recommended them to me, he pays £25 pcm for £1000 pcm payout, but he’s only 30 y/o.

They also payout additionally for various injuries, but didn’t get the details.

So, if this is an indication of the premiums that are going to be have to be charged…, rather expensive.

Monkeyfudger, perhaps that’s because it’s a non issue for some people?

Just as some on here seem to be getting their knickers in a twist over the full-face rule and insurance there are sure to be a load of people who don’t give a toss, love the series, can’t wait for the Nationals and just want to race.

STW isn’t necessarily representative of everything that’s going on in mountain biking, as others have said there are enough events in this fastest growing discipline that you won’t miss out on any racing by shunning the UKGE series if the rules don’t work for you, during the summer months there are usually a couple of events on at any given weekend.

Nobody is putting a gun to your head and making you race UKGE and they are just one of many promoters jockeying for position as the no.1 organisation in the UK…vote with your feet and boycott that organisation, if strength of feeling is anything like that being displayed on here then UKGE will falter and have to concede to it’s public.

deviant – Member
Monkeyfudger, perhaps that’s because it’s a non issue for some people?

It’s probably more a symptom of people being unable to think for themselves these days.
It’s mostly about asking people to pay for a mostly pointless insurance policy that offers them no real benefits because (most people are waiting for some sort of actual explanation other than because we say so)

At last a Statement, with info on what you need, why they didn’t do this in the first place would of solved a lot of issues/questions etc.

AS stated above, it was “you need this”, and no real reasons why or what level you need, and expecting people to just go “yeah ok, I get my money out, no questions” border line insulting.

All sorted now, it’s just potential customers that don’t like it and they don’t count anyway:

“The insurance is a requirement to race UKGE in 2015, simple if you don’t want to race UKGE then we are not forcing you too. It’s that simple people, because the people making the most noise here are people who have not raced a UKGE before.”

They’ve got to be completely crackers if they think this won’t affect the popularity of the series. How many only raced 1 or 2 rounds? The majority i suspect given how spread out around the UK they are. Are these pople going to want to add another £100 odd for a crap level of insurance cover?
This page is laughable;
http://www.ukgravityenduro.com/love-sport-protect-ukge-bespoke-financial/
I would like to know how Mr Parr answers when asked if they/he benefit/s from bespoke policies being sold. He’s little more than an insurance saleman at present. And they still don’t seem to have a main sponsor as yet.
National series my arse.

I would like to know how Mr Parr answers when asked if they/he benefit/s from bespoke policies being sold.

Steve won’t be benefiting but the UKGE probably will by developing a relationship with an insurer that can offer them the cover they need for there events.PL used to be from BC but as said in statement that’s no longer available.

Bespoke is the insurer that have chosen to do there insurance. There is your relationship and what is wrong with that?

Steve Parrs latest comments are really disappointing. If they want to be the national series then they are going to be scrutnised by their community. Why does he believe because we told you so is good enough.

I hope this guy has very little to do with a Enduro governing body, I’m sure he is a half decent organiser but he is totally incompetent when it comes public relations.

EDIT Not to my surprise I was removed from the UKGE FB group 😉

I don’t believe that Bespoke are the PL provider, as far as I’m aware they’re just the ‘recommended provider’ of PA cover for the rider.

because the people making the most noise here are people who have not raced a UKGE before.

There are also plenty of people who’ve done a few and would have continued to race one or two a year when close enough.

Now I suspect many will treat the series and organiser with the same contempt that they’re showing us.

I’d heard people moaning at the races that Parr’s only interested in the elites and his mates – and it does look a bit that way now.

It might be a big deal for some this season, but the fuss will die down. UKGE is, and has been, pitching itself to be the premier UK series and this is a move to edge closer to that.

Within a couple of years it will probably consist of the cream of the crop of UK bikers; ex-pros, ex-elites, top 10 placing riders in other series. The kind of talented riders that have the time to train, the skills to mix it at the top level. The kind of riders who have a degree of sponsorship, or at least shop-backing.

You only have to look at the top 10-20 riders in any given event to see the same names, and a lot of these names will have bikes supplied to them by local sponsors, shops etc. At that kind of level, a hundred quid or so to insure yourself becomes irrelevant as you aren’t spending your cash on bikes, spares, clothes etc.

Maybe I am wrong, but Parr has said as much that he wants the series to be the pinnacle. As others have said – if you don’t like it, don’t enter. I don’t mean it disrespectfully, but the majority of those moaning are probably hobby rider standard anyway. Those who aren’t moaning probably fall somewhere into the category of riders I mention above.

Bespoke is the insurer that have chosen to do there insurance. There is your relationship and what is wrong with that?

There’s a very high chance UKGE will be getting an introducer’s commission

scottfitz – Member
Steve won’t be benefiting but the UKGE probably will by developing a relationship with an insurer that can offer them the cover they need for there events.PL used to be from BC but as said in statement that’s no longer available.
Bespoke is the insurer that have chosen to do there insurance. There is your relationship and what is wrong with that?

Then they should explain it like that.

Bespoke are just a broker, the documents put up on UKGE site are Friends Life docs.

Bespoke is the insurer that have chosen to do there insurance. There is your relationship and what is wrong with that?

The problem is that it could set a precedent for other race organisers misguidedly attempting to push insurance on racers who don’t need it.

I would hate for this to be applied across the whole of bike racing over the next few years just because people can’t engage their brains this year.

Anyway the rumour I’ve heard is that next year he’ll be demanding that all racers carry a pound of saltcod from his preferred supplier Reg the fishmonger (Why? In case you get hungry, stupid!) and two lucky horseshoes, again from a preferred supplier, err just for luck. The year after he’ll be demanding everyone ride in Scooby Doo onesies and singing Miley Cyrus songs. Just because!

snorkelsucker – Member
It might be a big deal for some this season, but the fuss will die down. UKGE is, and has been, pitching itself to be the premier UK series and this is a move to edge closer to that.

Why is forcing us to have insurance we don’t need moving us toward making the series better.

are probably hobby rider standard anyway

They probably are, but if such riders don’t enter these races to make up the numbers then the races wont happen. Just look at how many mincers the EWS allows in!

Some nice exclusions for their fracture cover

Where more than one of the above
fractures occurs at any time, we will only pay
fracture cover benefit for one of the fractures.
You can decide which fracture you are
claiming for.

We will only pay fracture cover benefit to you
for one fracture suffered during any 12 month
period.

Yeah but you’ll be stinking rich after the first claim so wont even care about making another one

IdleJon – Member

Bespoke is the insurer that have chosen to do there insurance. There is your relationship and what is wrong with that?

The problem is that it could set a precedent for other race organisers misguidedly attempting to push insurance on racers who don’t need it.
[/quote]
I am a race organiser (Not UKGE). I was at the enduro meeting Steve speaks about and I think if all the organisers work together and there is a sensible tier system set up there is a bright future for enduro.

BTW If anyone fancy setting up a second UK wide series I’m sure Steve and team would relish the challenge/compaction

“Why is forcing us to have insurance we don’t need moving us toward making the series better?“

Premier doesn’t always mean better. It means first in importance, order, or position; a leading series.

“but if such [hobby] riders don’t enter these races to make up the numbers then the races wont happen.“

They will. It will just be that the other series are where such riders reside. “feeder series”. Parr has said as much.

Anyway, my post is just IMHO. I raced 3 events last year; 2 x mini enduros and 1 x borderline. I was going to go for a UKGE round this year but 1. my winter training has been rubbish and 2. all these new rules and increased costs mean that because of 1. I’d really be wasting my money.

FYI
Enduro1’s take on the subject:

Regarding Insurance

Most of you have are no doubt aware of the debate regarding competitors having to obtain their own personal accident insurance in order to ride certain Gravity Enduro races.

I have been looking into this matter as I firmly believe it is the way forward for riders who race or partake in a sport that is considered dangerous. However, at this stage the way cover is underwritten and the criteria required by the underwriters in order to quote it is impossible to obtain blanket cover as a race promoter that covers their competitors in case of injury. Underwriters will only quote on an individual basis as they need to know your details, claim history etc before quoting as everyone is different and not just regarding age.

As a race promoter I only have to obtain third party public liability insurance that indemnifies the landowner and myself in the event of a member of the public being injured during the event. It does not cover you as a rider and you would have to pursue my insurers or me personally to obtain a financial payout, that is hard to win unless of course I am guilty of gross negligence, which I do everything in my power not to be.

Think about this. If you are self employed and god forbid sustain an injury preventing you from working are you sufficiently insured that your mortgage and bills can be paid and you can provide for your family, should you have one? If you have insurance does it cover you for competitive mountain bike racing?

Those of you employed, are you sure your companies sick pay policy covers you for competing in a dangerous sport? Some don’t so check.

Please be aware that British Cycling insurance will no longer cover you for any Enduro racing in the UK including our Enduro1 races.

We are working on a cost efficient why of implementing this but it will take time. So, I will not be insisting that you have personal cover to race the series at this point in time, however, I strongly advise that you obtain it as it’s a no brainer, especially for the self employed!

I think that post may be the nail in the coffin for those who were previously sat on the fence about entering the UKGE races!

id say most people raced the whole series or more than 50% at least judging by the faces you see at each round, infact much more:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/163145548/Series-Points-2013
the point about newcommers is probably right, the UKGE team focus on the overall series racers, they see it as being the national series and other local races and series as feeders into it

a lot of people have raced the whole series, some since the start, those people know that parr and the gang are passionate about it and enduro in general and that parr wants to get a federation setup and that will include insurance for the riders, like BC gold
they might also know that Steve and the team as well as having 9-5 jobs dedicate nearly every weekend of the year to organising, digging and managing the series in wales scotland and england

they also know its a brilliant and challenging race series and if you race the entire season the chances of being injured at some point are quite high!

that being said, its not been explained well, and bespoke just seem like any other insurance company rather than someone who is really involved and aware of the sport

I think it also shows that since BC pulling out any enduro federation should be chaired by someone independent of any series

i also think all the meanspirrited “they are all amateurs, I hope the series fails” stuff is pretty sad

snorkelsucker – Member
I think that post may be the nail in the coffin for those who were previously sat on the fence about entering the UKGE races!

even though the enduro1 races are good, they arent a patch on the UKGE races!

if you race the entire season the chances of being injured at some point are quite high!

The chances aren’t high. I do this for a living (life, health, accident, disability etc insurance) and the claim incidence rate is very, very low. Even for people doing things far more hazardous than riding a pushbike through some muddy woods.

well me and my mates must be naff then (which is pretty true im a consistent last 25% finisher at ukge!)

but between the 5 people i ride at ukge with 4 have broken bones riding or racing in the last year (3x hands, 1 x ribs!)

but between the 5 people i ride at ukge with 4 have broken bones riding or racing in the last year (3x hands, 1 x ribs!)

So did you all feel the need to buy PA immediately after getting those injuries then? And if not, why not?

the only 1 of the 5 that didnt get injured does have PA from Totally?!!!

hes been banging on that we all should too for a while now

and after loosing a lot of blood going over the bars 2 weeks ago, im shopping around for quotes at the moment!

That might be the case kimbers but they can at least string a coherent sentence together.

So, I will not be insisting that you have personal cover to race the series at this point in time, however, I strongly advise that you obtain it as it’s a no brainer, especially for the self employed!

This is a very sensible statement on insurance, get it if you need it, make your own mind up.
My original plans for this year was to come back over summer and maybe enter one or two rounds but this would just put me off. The level of “if you don’t like it **** off” is quite staggering for a anyone who requires people to pay to attend their events.

So when did Enduro organisers think they know more about people’s personal financial situation and appetite for risk?

Mikewsmith nails it above, for some people it is probably worth it, but for others it’s a waste of space and hence, a worthless expense.

So to re-cap; you need to wear a full face and you need to have insurance…

hmmm, the cynic in me wants to suggest that UKGE are more interested in protecting themselves against claims rather than perhaps having their competitors best interest at heart. (the comments about it being not necessary for under 18 competitors)

Steve Parr’s comments on FB about how most noise is coming from people that are new or potential riders and the other’s of UKGE suggesting how some sponsored riders sre not worrying about this; is telling, I don’t think he wants us plebs to ride in his series TBH.

So it looks like the real answer is Steve Parr knows best for all our personal situations and therefore can make us get personal insurance. This is something that even the government doesn’t force us to do when it comes to cars and driving.

maybe he’s trying to filter out all the cheapskates so that he only has nice, new, shiny bikes taking part?

Within a couple of years it will probably consist of the cream of the crop of UK bikers; ex-pros, ex-elites, top 10 placing riders in other series. The kind of talented riders that have the time to train, the skills to mix it at the top level. The kind of riders who have a degree of sponsorship, or at least shop-backing.

I bet they’re not.
You think UKGE have handled this well, so you must be

cream of the crop of UK bikers; ex-pros, ex-elites, top 10 placing riders in other series

Do you get bikes supplied to you by local sponsors, shops etc?
Because if you don’t, you’re

hobby rider standard

hmmm, the cynic in me wants to suggest that UKGE are more interested in protecting themselves against claims rather than perhaps having their competitors best interest at heart.

Absolutely NOTHING wrong with an event organiser wanting to protect themselves against claims. It’s sensible.

What’s a “competitors best interest”? Allowing you to crash out on a fast stage in an XC lid and smash your face in? How about the impact on other racers, for example someone stopping to help you and in so blowing their own race? Or the landowner who then refuses to let a race come back, so losing a venue? Or the organiser who ends up facing a liability claim?

Improving safety with a FF is fine and reduces the organisers liability.

Personal insurance (a) does not improve safety and (b) does not reduce the organisers liability.

Allowing you to crash out on a fast stage in an XC lid and smash your face in?

Helmets aren’t some magical device that totally prevent head injuries, full facer or otherwise

How about the impact on other racers, for example someone stopping to help you and in so blowing their own race?

What’s that got to do with personal accident insurance?

Or the landowner who then refuses to let a race come back, so losing a venue?

Again, what’s that got to do with personal accident insurance?

Or the organiser who ends up facing a liability claim?

How does personal accident cover trump the organisers liability insurance?

maybe he’s trying to filter out all the cheapskates so that he only has nice, new, shiny bikes taking part?

There’s still time for them to put in a rule about wheel sizes!