And a better trained marshal with more authority to order the public to move (some that is being considered in legislation in Scotland) may have stopped a spectator standing in a bad spot ? I say MAY, you note, still not talking direct causal effect.

Dr Who puts it quite succinctly (if NSFW…..at all)
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1rRszEYKdM[/video]

steveh – Member

Parr in an interview was suggesting that enduro is nearer xc than dh – the ones I’ve done certainly aren’t.

one of the reasons I stopped racing Enduros was that I found myself (mid-stage) looking forward to the bits where the course ran along old Dh tracks – as those were by far the ‘easier’ bits.

suggesting that enduro is nearer xc than dh

In talks with insurance company.
“So it’s like downhill and jumping off things then?Seems really dangerous.Mmmm that’s going to be expensive.And it’ll be marshalled like them as well?”
“NO NO NO NO……errr it’s just like cross country.You know,skinny blokes in lycra mincing about slowly.No need for too many marshals and stuff”
“Oooohh that’s ok then.If was like downhill I’d have to tell you @$5£ right off”

Steveh – I say that exact same comment in the Pink Bike interview and he did get some stick for it. The reason it’s classed as XC was due to it essentially being a loop rather than starting at one point and finishing at another.

To be fair that’s total bollocks as most enduro courses are DH courses with a couple of pedally bits chucked in.

I was with them on the full face thing. Their game and their rules.

But this just doesn’t make sense.

😐

It makes no sense to require insurance but not provide details of the level of cover required. Leaving it to a commercial provider tostate your levels indicates a lack of knowledge or interest. 3rd party liability is understandable but the other stuff they waffle on about is nonsense, it’s entirely reasonable to self insure those risks.

I don’t see why the cover you need is quoted on an individual basis either, it should be easy to provide a per event price for all to cover the essential elements, with a whole series cover option. There is no obvious basis for different cover prices for different people. It all just seems a bit haphazard and last minute panic mixed with doing a deal with a mate.

So I need to get insurance for somthing that I’ve not yet entered and I may not get an entry for.

Good move.

Could just take out insurance then cancel it but still have the docs to take to sign on, simples.

Matthew January 8, 2015 Hi Mike, In answer to your fist questions, no this can not be included in your entry fee (although the organiser 3rd party insurance already is). The reason being that the cost of personal accident insurance depends on the individual, so each case is different.

Having just read through the various posts on their website I’m at a lost to understand how on earth they’re going to police this. How hard would it be to create a ‘false’ certificate that appears to be correct (well, once we work out what cover your ACTUALLY need to satisfy their requirements) – and it’s not like they’re going to ring up and confirm every entry.

And it doesn’t matter it’s ‘false’ as you’re never going to claim, as we live in the UK and we’ve the NHS etc

I won’t bother this year. I’ll see how it looks next year now.

All this is great publicity for the series, everyone is talking about it 🙂 marketing genius!!!

Ukge definitely need to get a decent press release officer sorted

Thankfully the races and series itself are very slickly run and the courses brilliant, if Parr said everyone had to wear their pants outside their shorts to race it’d still sell out in minutes

With BC abandoning such an incredibly popular form of cycling someone has to step in and lay down some rules for a national series

(Mega)Avalanche cup races in France require you take insurance, does the trans savoi, Provence too?

If you don’t like them (I don’t either), don’t enter the races(I won’t be). The series will not do well and end. Someone else can start a national series and you can all be happy again.

Do the SES/Tweedlove Series/Other English enduros i’m not aware of/Probably some welsh ones too instead, I can vouch for 2/4 as being top quality.

As for his ‘Enduro British Champs’ we have an EWS round here. If you win that, then i’ll call you ‘Enduro Champion’ for the rest of the year.

Why would cover be different cost, are dobbers who are more likely to crash going to get charged more?

And I’m employed with a decent sick pay policy, bikes are insured including accidental damage, what do I need more than 3rd party liability for?

(Mega)Avalanche cup races in France require you take insurance

This is for helicopter evacuation* and medical treatment. Which are free at the point of delivery in the UK.

Just seems so arbitrary and half-baked. They need to give this a proper re-think IMO.

* Though the Frenchies didn’t charge me for my helicopter ride at the Mega.

mrhoppy – Member
Why would cover be different cost, are dobbers who are more likely to crash going to get charged more?

For the same reason that every other type of insurance varies in cost e.g. age, medical issues, wheel size, etc

I’d hazard a guess most standard PA covers will exclude hazardous sports and will almost certainly exclude competitive sport

kimbers – Member
(Mega)Avalanche cup races in France require you take insurance, does the trans savoi, Provence too?

Quite possibly but in France you have to pay for recovery off the mountain so you are actually insuring something. You aren’t insuring anything with UKGE.

And I’m employed with a decent sick pay policy, bikes are insured including accidental damage, what do I need more than 3rd party liability for?

My guess, to cover you against being sued by another rider when you crash into them during an overtake?

3rd party would not cover another entrant to the event, no? 3rd party is for spectators and other, well, 3rd parties?

. The series will not do well and end. Someone else can start a national series and you can all be happy again.

Really? Its incredibly popular, sells out in minutes for some rounds, hours for others, there’s always a big waiting list

There’s no other series that covers the whole of the uk and I can’t see many people devoting pretty much every weekend to organising, track building, logistics etc the way Parr has

legend – Member
mrhoppy – Member
Why would cover be different cost, are dobbers who are more likely to crash going to get charged more?
For the same reason that every other type of insurance varies in cost e.g. age, medical issues, wheel size, etc

But how do those variables affect the likely risk being insured/that Mr Parr needs to be covered to allow him not to carry sufficient insurance against the series.

Just about every other sport event that needs cover I’ve done has allowed you to do fixed cost cover for a couple of quid.

My guess, to cover you against being sued by another rider when you crash into them during an overtake?

Nope, seems to be entirely about covering your own well-being in the event of an injury

My guess, to cover you against being sued by another rider when you crash into them during an overtake?

It’s a pretty good example of a 3rd party claim, just like your 3rd party cover on a car.

Whilst it’s got people talking about brand UKGE, it’s not been achieved by marketing genius, quite the opposite in fact.

A prime example of the ‘make it up as you go along’ school of thought.

What a shambles. They literally have no way of policing this. Much like 90% of the Megavalanche ‘doctors letters’ knocked up on the printer at work on the Friday afternoon before people leave for the ferry.

They’ve said they’ll clarify tomorrow

I think they may have to drop this one tbh

Its looking unenforceable to me

Shame as I think the sentiment is right, they want people to be insured and all covered to a certain standard, maybe should be just waited till they have their own federation set up

The main thing is, they seem to be failing to convince people on the benefits. For some folks, it probably is a great idea- if I was self employed I’d already have some form of income protection. But if you’re in employment with sick pay etc, then the benefits are far smaller.

But instead of trying to make the case for, all I see is “It’s not THAT expensive, you’ve already spent a fortune on your bike, what’s an extra £100?”, “It’s for your sake!” and inevitably “The French do it”. And of course “These are the rules, if you don’t like it don’t race”. But you’ve got to show people why they should want it

Doesn’t directly affect me- tbh I didn’t dig the UKGE much, with its overcomplicated formula and bizarre course choices so with a crowded calendar and lots of better racing I didn’t bother last year, and the fullface thing meant there’s no chance of me doing it this year. And Steve’s got the right to do what he wants with his series. But this stuff can have impacts on other organisers, if he manages to make fullface and insurance the industry standard then the ball’s on the slates.

It’s going to get to the point where soon it’ll be too “dangerous” to get out of bed in the morning, and we’ll just have to spend our lives, covered in our own excrement, fat as fast, shoving ready meals into our faces, till we die a miserable slow, painful death in a pool of our own gentle congealing vomit…….

Think i’d rather die falling off my bike thanks 😉

And what about just riding in the woods with my mates, do we now need insurance for that just in case we run over a daffodil or something?

More seriously, i wouldn’t actually mind if we cold pay a sum to the club running the event, which they would use for insurance, and if they don’t spend it all, at least some of the money goes back into the sport, rather than into the coffers of some faceless grey fronted insurance broker. And because “risk” is average, it doesn’t matter that everyone would pay the same, the risk doesn’t actually change on average. (not every rider in the event is going to be a city fat cat with a £1M yearly earning now are they)

I see Steve responding to a request for the level of insurance required with “contact Be Spoke”. 😕

I am still confused by this.

I am self employed, if I crash and can’t work will the £2 a week policy do what a many many £s a month policy won’t and actually pay me.

If I crash and need medical attention will the £2 a week policy cover private medical costs.

If I crash and need medical attention will the £2 a week policy cover my NHS costs…. I think I am already paying for that.

If I hit another competitor or a spectator will the £2 a week policy compensate them, I thought the PL that is included in the entry fee covered that.

What will I be insuring myself against?

And what about just riding in the woods with my mates, do we now need insurance for that just in case we run over a daffodil or something?

I suspect, when you ring for your quote, that’s exactly what they’ll be trying to sell to you – annual cover for riding in the woods. Premium suitably bumped up due to your gnarlyness as you ride an enduro or two during the year.
It pongs. I’m sure it could be included in the (already pricey) entry fee.

Mbnut – Member

I am self employed, if I crash and can’t work will the £2 a week policy do what a many many £s a month policy won’t and actually pay me.

I suppose that’s the real question… When I worked in the bank we had payment and income protection that we were supposed to sell to people. It was almost useless for permenently employed staff, and they refused to cover anyone else.

If you can find a good policy that’ll cover you and benefit you then it’s probably a good idea regardless of racing tbh, it won’t take much of a claim to make it pay off. I think for a lot of people though it’s only ever going to pay off if you suffer a lifechanging injury.

OK I think I’ve twigged what this is all about.

Read the PB interview and you’ll see Parr makes several references to “the sue culture” of the UK.

We’re all struggling to understand what benefit this has for us, but that’s because it’s actually for the organisers’ benefit – so we hopefully don’t sue them if we end up in a wheelchair.

Perhaps they were unable to get insurance which they feel adequately covers them for the risk they feel they are taking? Anyway, this solution is still clumsy, misguided and wasteful IMO.

Having insurance doesn’t stop people suing race organisers. But also, what about the risk of insurers suing instead?

Note I used the word “misguided”.

If they can’t get insurance the race won’t go on.
Other enduros will follow.
Suddenly, no enduro.
The only way is for participants to have the adequate cover.
I see no issue with that whatsoever.

iolo, but as mentioned before what is adequate cover. And for who?

There are a lot of questions being raised and the organisers need to answer these clearly. You cant run an event and enforce insurance and then be very very vague on what that insurance needs to cover and to what amount.

I reckon it went something like this;
“‘ere, this sue culture is terrible. It’s gettin jus’ like ‘merica.”
“what if someone gets ‘urt at our race?”
“Oh shit, we could get sued and BC aren’t interested so…”
“Lets make ’em get insurance”
“GREAT IDEA! Put it on facebook”
“Job jobbed”
*open more beers*

Considering the lack of direction, I can’t imagine that the thought process went much further than that.

The organisers already have their own insurance against people suing them.

Introducing insurance will almost certainly increase the chance of an insurance company making a claim against another insurance company.

In life, you have to make sure you can cover your debts etc and live if an accident does happen an you cannot work. I cannot see how forcing you to take this extra insurance is really helping you other than making you give money to yet another company.

iolo – Member

If they can’t get insurance the race won’t go on.
Other enduros will follow.
Suddenly, no enduro.
The only way is for participants to have the adequate cover.

That’s a massive leap. Especially since other race organisers still seem to be able to run races without these rules. Do you have some insider knowledge leading you to say this is the only way and is required to keep the races going? (because publically, the race organisers aren’t saying this)

Might be worth clarifying- according to the organisers this is additional cover to previous years, it’s not racers being asked to pay personally for something that used to be provided by UKGE.

There’s a slight difference in that BC race licences will no longer provide cover but most people probably didn’t have that cover anyway.