If you thought mandatory full facers were a pain for UKGE…

So silver then, just like anything else…

Reads like an advert for bespoke to me. I do not for a single second believe that UKGE would go so far as they have without some kind of incentive. It’s barely even hidden. I hope that those who race go elsewhere.

so its 20 quid a year more to race ukges for a season than bds, but you get insurance too?

and still they whinge………. 😳

Pretty sure the included BDS uplift is better

I’m guessing their logic is if a rider gets a payout from their own PA cover, he won’t come after UKGE with a claim.

Then they’re idiots, as where do you think an insurance company will go to recoup their losses? Far more likely to happen too than an individual, I’d never consider going after an organiser if I got injured, but if I’d forked out for PA insurance I’d sure as hell be claiming on that.

so its 20 quid a year more to race ukges for a season than bds, but you get insurance too?

You’re comparing a DH race with an enduro race. Not sure what it’s like down south but the SDA rounds up here are a lot more expensive than an SES round. I sense it’s just a given that DH is more expensive.

These new mandatory “extras” are a lot of additional costs. Maybe UKGE is the top series in the UK and only attracts the mega hardcore gnarly ENDURO doodz, but for the average Joe Bloggs rider they have to find

~£150 for an “enduro” full facer (could do it in a cheap DH full facer but that would be brutal
~£100 for insurance they may not want or need

I sense it’s just a given that DH is more expensive.

which is funny as at ukge you get 6 timed stages over 3 days and a waymarked route of 30k or so, compared with 2 timed runs and maybe 30 minutes of riding time!

if people accept that DH is expensive, why not enduro?

if people accept that DH is expensive, why not enduro?

DH is a pretty niche discipline and with that comes expense (rightly or wrongly)

Enduro is pitched as “the type of riding you do with your mates”. The thing being, when I go riding with my mates no one tells me I can’t do it unless I wear a specific type of helmet and buy the insurance they think I need.

It’s a better statement but still doesn’t answer the essential question “what minimum level of cover is required”. The longer it takes to answer that, the more suspicious people will be since it funnels everyone towards Be Spoke.

Re licences, you can race in many point scoring BC events including the SDA with just a Bronze membership and provisional licence, which is £18.90. You don’t accumulate any national points, though, but for most people that’s a non-issue. You can race in the welsh champs with no licence at all, you just can’t compete for a champs category. again a non-issue for most.

I don’t think the comparison with the BDS is accurate- it might be in a few years’ time but right now enduro doesn’t have that multi-level structure or level of competition.

With the BDS comparison I was just heading for national series vs national series which is how UKGE presents itself, I raced DH for a couple of years without a licence.

Kimbers, with my BC race licence I can also race road/XC/CX/DH and it gives me 10M of public liability insurance for competitive and non-competitive riding, comparing it to the policy put forward by UKGE (by the look of it) is apples-oranges.

It was a terrible statement it did not answer the fundamental reason why we actually are required to have this insurance. Other than that they feel they know what is best for us.

In the UK you are required to have at least 3rd party liability cover for car insurance, you are not required to have comprehensive cover.

It appears that the race organisers have decided that we all must have comprehensive cover because they know what is best for us. Sorry but I think I can make my own decision on what insurance I need beyond 3rd party liability.

I think this will be a disaster for UKGE as the insurers of these private policies will try and recoup the cost of their claims against UKGE’s insurance, before long Enduro events wont be able to get affordable insurance.

Further to the above it’s a terrible statement because it is based on seemingly untruths about BC licenses and insurance. Either UKGE have been badly advised or it’s dodgy, either way it looks iffy IMO.

Dragon:You do realise the Federation meeting was held at BC HQ with 2 BC reps present? there are no untruths re: insurance and memberships, I’ve looked into all of this and can fully see why BC pulled out of Enduro/Gravity Enduro…

This wailing and gnashing of teeth happens with all new sports as they find their feet, progress, advance etc…

The bleating about Enduro “being a ride around with your mates” is fine for low key events or back in 2011 when organisers were having to publicise Enduro as people didn’t know what on earth it was…it is now established and UKGE want to position themselves as the National series, the small club ethos of 2011 will of course be lost…these are timed events after all, it’s racing and some people take it seriously. You can make a living now racing Enduro so why try to stifle the development of the sport just because some grumpy old men on STW don’t like change!?

It is quite simple, Parr is trying to be the no.1 organisation in the UK, he wants a tier system pyramiding up to a National Championship, he wants all bases covered re. safety, insurance etc…if you don’t like it don’t enter, there are loads of events where you can wear a piss-pot lid and race without insurance…vote with your feet, if the STW demographic are representative of the wider MTB public the series will fail and Parr will have to reconsider the rules he runs under.

….however I think UKGE will be fine, the events are always over subscribed and plenty of people I have raced with are keen on having a UK Championship, Parr is trying to advance the discipline at a national level, I don’t have a problem with that and hope these events are easier to get entries for now that most of STW have gone off in a strop!

you can advance the sport without having to have riders fork out for personal insurance for which they may not even get a spot. If Parr was to properly explain why riders need to pay out for personal insurance then people would no doubt be happy. The lack of any information as to why it is now required is what is pissing most people off probably.

I don’t have a problem with that and hope these events are easier to get entries for now that most of STW have gone off in a strop!

😀

This isn’t about halting the progression of the sport. I agreed with FF as it actually improved safety this doesn’t. People are genuinely concerned that this step could impact on event organisers ability to obtain affordable liability insurance.

So nobody can explain why there is a requirement for personal accident insurance then? Good to see in a few years the comms are still at the top level you expect from a national series pushing the boundaries of the sport.

Its a miracle the Scottish Enduro series managed to succeed last year with any of this crap…

I think that’s what you call a non-explanation explanation.

Its a miracle the Scottish Enduro series managed to succeed last year with any of this crap

So far…..

I think that’s what you call a non-explanation explanation.

Nah, it’s what you call a load of bollocks.

It blows my mind some of the goons on Facebook still blowing smoke up their arses over the whole matter too.

if your under 18 you dont need insurance 😉

Why do I need Personal accident insurance to race the UKGE series?…
Because I want to cover myself if the worst happens and I can’t work! also it’s now a mandatory entry requirement.
UKGEs’ are technical, Physical and have a risk involved.
The question is not for UKGE to answer, Its YOU the rider who needs to ask…Do I want to race UKGE? If so then I will abide by their rules and get insurance cover, otherwise I will race elsewhere without insurance and accept the risks involved.
UKGE has no control over who enters their races and as such this mandatory rule will make people think twice about entering a national level event and hopefully think “Maybe i’ll go and ride regional Enduros first and see how I get on before committing my money and time to a series that is way above my current riding level (fitness and skill)” I know I would…
And before someone says ” Its not a national level event as its not BC sanctioned! ” It is percieved as national level by all who race it, promote it, market it and enjoy it.

I think that’s what you call a non-explanation explanation.

Its all a bit “same words, different order” isn’t it. How hard would it be to have a statement along the lines of “in conjunction with our broker we have established that the minimum covers should be x/y/z.

Looking at the BC cover, Silver membership provides personal liability which hasn’t been mentioned explicitly anywhere in the UKGE discussion – does that mean that the event is explicitly providing that for all entrants (i.e. insuring rider error as opposed to issues with the way the race is run).

And if its all so important, I don’t really see how you can exclude juniors from requiring it.

Still clear as mud 🙁

Why do I need Personal accident insurance to race the UKGE series?…
Because I want to cover myself if the worst happens and I can’t work! also it’s now a mandatory entry requirement.

See you are confusing want and need, if you have full sick pay and private medical what do you gain, what is actually covered? Is it actually clear what you need at all?

Except I don’t need PA insurance to race the national DH series or on the road (where people have died racing), the level of cover is also pretty meh and it’s still unclear how much life insurance is actually reqd.

I wonder if the Alps holiday insurance companies could conjure up a product that covers both?

Why do I need Personal accident insurance to race the UKGE series?…
Because I want to cover myself if the worst happens and I can’t work! also it’s now a mandatory entry requirement.

Yep, that £900 for breaking my back* is certainly going to make all the difference. My employee sickness benefits & PMI are literally quaking in their boots…

*minimum level of cover apparently.

UKGE has no control over who enters their races and as such this mandatory rule will make people think twice about entering a national level event and hopefully think “Maybe i’ll go and ride regional Enduros first and see how I get on before committing my money and time to a series that is way above my current riding level (fitness and skill)” I know I would…

Hehe.

Oh, you were being serious?

I can go & race DH in nearly any series in the UK, most of which have tracks so far beyond that raced in a UKGE, at far higher speeds, with far bigger consequences for getting it wrong.

I don’t need insurance for that.

You make it sound like UKGE is some brutal, tough killer weekend enduro racing. Jesus Christ. We rode round Afan trail centre for two years on the trot 🙄

@flash aka charlie whiting. Your post explains the rational of ukge to enforce these new rulings and does clear up the question of why, its just a shame that I am going to have to find another £100 this year as consequence of trying to put off people who would be in over there depth, bit miffed about that.

Setting aside the compulsory issue, and I’m too old to enter this type of thing, £96 for an annual sports cover doesn’t seem too bad. Insurers got all tetchy when I said I was going to the alps for a long weekend and demanded that cover was only in place for riding on way marked trails, but not competitively.
So this policy covers everything, off piste skiing, alps racing, no conditions, exclusions or warranties?

For a year, £96 doesn’t seem bad.

*but hasn’t been on comparethemarket etc.
** and is just based on costs for a weekend cycling in the alps, that’s as gnar as I get.

the flash – Member

The question is not for UKGE to answer

Of course it is! “Because we said so” is the sort of argument that works when you’re 5 years old but it’s a ridiculous way to treat your riders. If you make a decision but can’t explain that decision then that’s as good as admitting it’s a bad one. Or possibly that they’ve got reasons that they don’t want public.

In the same way, if they can’t explain what a suitable level of coverage is other than “it’s whatever Be Spoke say it is” then they’re admitting that they don’t know what they want.

So where does that leave you? They can’t tell you what they want you to do, they can’t explain why they want you to do it… But you’ve got to do it, whatever it is.

UKGE have two jobs to do now. They need to explain exactly what cover riders are required to have. And they need to explain exactly why riders should want this. And for as long as they can’t or won’t do either of these things, there’s going to be problems and doubts. It’s not that hard a hole to get out of.

The payouts are crap and it only covers a small range of injuries that could keep you off work.

Surprised that the size and scale of the reaction to this hasn’t given them cause to consider that maybe some of the “whingers” might actually know a thing or two and that this might actually be a mistake.

That explanation just makes me think that either the organisers are a bit daft or they think that we are, tbh.

good summary and critique of it you two

Page 2 of the cover document refers to there being a need to declare if any person takes up a hazardous activity between taking supplying the application form and taking out the policy.
That suggest a raft of activities will be named, possibly excluded, so I would have thought a full policy wording, including conditions and exclusions should be posted.
It certainly doesn’t sound like it covers everything “extreme”, at all times, for a year.
And yes, the fracture payouts are poor levels.

I’m amazed that dogtag and snowcard haven’t jumped all over this. It’s their bread and butter (just without the possible airlift and private medical costs as it’s uk).

I’m still sitting on the fence about this…

On one hand I think personal accident insurance is a useful thing to have, no matter what employee sickness benefits you may have, an extra bit of money while you’re off work is never a bad thing. And for those self employed among us, it’s a no brainer. However the payout from Bespoke for a list of EIGHTEEN FRACTURES does seem rather poor, there are many other potential injuries one could have from a MTB accident – including much more serious long lasting muscular problems. Overall PA insurance is an excellent idea to protect yourself.

On the other hand I think the UKGE team have rushed into this, similar to their British Cycling colleagues (or should I say – acquaintances). If the long term plan is to have a UK federation for Enduro, why not wait for everything to be ready and put it all together in one launch. I think the announcement of this insurance requirement could be a grave mistake, and it would be interesting to know Parr’s expectation for the number of entries they will receive this year, but then UKGE weekends are awesome, and what’s an extra £8 per month really simply to meet a requirement?

What I’d like to see is the UKGE organisers realising their mistake (clearly from the FB and STW reaction), and hence retracting their personal accident insurance statement with the full intention that it will be brought into play when the federation is created and it can all be put together in a membership/race licence when there is a specific need for it. This year there is clearly no need for the PA insurance cover but what’s done is done and sadly I can’t see them turning back on it now, especially when a certain number of people will have already purchased their insurance policies from the likes of Bespoke.

@dandasbike who’s Charlie Whiting?

Apologies my bad mr williams 🙄

The bleating about Enduro “being a ride around with your mates” is fine for low key events

EWS Tweedlove managed a “low key” event without this level of belligerent bureaucracy