Hybrid Cars – BMW 330e

Just had my quotes through.

Can get the 330e sport for £314 pm or M Sport for £341

That’s with zero upfront & includes maintenance & insurance 😀

Is that a PCP Dunc, or a contribution to a work lease scheme? It looks very good if the former. What’s the term?

To be fair it’s salary sacrifice over 2 yrs.

Just been looking at charging options

The proper charging points are just under £200

However am I wrong in thinking that I could just get an electrician to fit one of these £10 boxes on an external wall ?

Yes, but they don’t supply as much current, so it takes a lot longer to charge. The dedicated point is a fast charger.

Whatever they say, the 3 pin adapter leads that come with the car are not really designed for living outside night after night. If you’re planning on staying in your house for a few years then I reckon the charging point is well worth while. At the speed technology is going this could be your last internal combustion car, and you wouldn’t want to have to charge a long-range fully electric vehicle af 13a. Also bear in mind that the subsidy for home chargers seems to be reducing every year. Not long ago they were free. Currently they cost about £200, an from March it will be more like £300. Still good value, vs funding it yourself.

If you do get a wall box, make sure you go for the 32a version rather than the 16a. The BMW only charges at 16a, but chances are your next car will be 32a.

When I was deciding what to do I thought about how I usually behave, and what would encourage me to bother plugging in every night, given that I am generally lazy and usually in a hurry. I’ve had my charger mounted on a post in front of where I park in the drive. All I have to do is pop the flap and stick in the plug. 20 seconds max morning and night. No excuses.

At the speed technology is going this could be your last internal combustion car

I doubt it. We are used to seeing constant incremental improvements in tech when it comes to computers, but batteries don’t work like that. Our current technology has a theoretical ceiling dictated by chemistry, and to do better we need a different tech altogether. They are being developed, but they could be 2 years or 15 years away.

Having said that, the 10 minute recharge might be the only way to make progress. But look at a current petrol station, and imagine what would happen if everyone was there for 10-15 mins and were drawing 100A

There’s an interesting review from an owner of an i3 here –

https://shkspr.mobi/blog/tag/i3/

A non-motoring journalist’s real life experiences on charging, costs, range anxiety etc. Much better than I expected.

If I came into lots of money and was to buy two new cars, I’d buy a bigger diesel estate for distances and towing, and then definitely an EV or PHEV for in town or school run, if we still had one. It would quite likely be the i3, with optional range extender as a get-out.

But look at a current petrol station, and imagine what would happen if everyone was there for 10-15 mins and were drawing 100A

But right now lots of those people will be there even though they’re only a few miles from home and aren’t going very far; if charging at a petrolelectricity station takes 15 minutes but is only being done by people doing longer than average journeys I would have thought there would be much less busy than now.

Molgrips, have a look at the info around the Tesla Model 3. I’m hoping that will replace my Golf GTE. A range of 200+ miles per charge, rapid charging, not too huge and circa £35k.

Worth taking a look at speakev.

Good point phiiil.

Bol, a Tesla is still not enough range unless I can recharge it in 10 mins wherever I am. And £35k is still too much for most people, so whilst some of us will be buying our last IC car, most won’t.

If we really tried though on board generators could be the solution. The BMW one and the GM one weren’t great. Could be much better.

I’m not convinced molgrips. Why 10 minutes? Surely after driving 200 miles you’re going to be happy to stop for half an hour aren’t you? Also, if Funkydunc is thinking about a £35k BMW, surely a £35k tesla would be a serious option for him next time? I was only trying to illustrate the benefit of installing a charger.

Isn’t the whole concept of petrol station going to change? Why not have charging stations at Maccy Ds? At the supermaket? In fact anywhere where the car is parked.
PAYG sytems in company car parks for vistors while in meetings?
The 10-15 min charge up won’t be a problem.

Surely after driving 200 miles you’re going to be happy to stop for half an hour aren’t you?

Guess that depends who you are reps & family’s possibly. Younger folk doubt it, I used to drive ~350 miles in my old Clio before stopping.

Tesla 3 is rumoured to be late, looking at lat Q1 2018 and not costing £35k but more.

I’m not convinced molgrips. Why 10 minutes? Surely after driving 200 miles you’re going to be happy to stop for half an hour aren’t you?

Depends if I’m in a hurry or not. I don’t want it forced on me. Ok so me personally, I’d probably put up with it if I could afford the car, but a lot of people will complain about it for sure.

I still think the two major issues are the cost of the car and the availability of chargers. And unless the cost comes down the installatin of chargers will be slow. And tbh the cost won’t come down much because batteries are always going to be expensive, they always have been, and they are made in huge volumes as it is. Laptop batteries (good spec ones not crappy knock-offs) are a big chunk of the cost of a laptop and look at their sales volume. And it’s not even R&D, they are a simple bulk item.

I hope my pessimism is unfounded. I really want an electric car!

Isn’t the whole concept of petrol station going to change? Why not have charging stations at Maccy Ds? At the supermaket? In fact anywhere where the car is parked.

Excellent point, but I suspect for that to work there’d have to be tons and tons of them – because when you’re low, you NEED to recharge, and if there are only 3 points at MacDs and they are full, you’d be a bit screwed unless you knew there’d be more nearby.

Excellent point, but I suspect for that to work there’d have to be tons and tons of them – because when you’re low, you NEED to recharge, and if there are only 3 points at MacDs and they are full, you’d be a bit screwed unless you knew there’d be more nearby.

I’m quite sure that whoever sees the opportunity will fill the car park with as many as needed and be charging us a little extra for the privilege. It’ll become just anther selling point until everyone has them, then problem gone.

I still think the two major issues are the cost of the car and the availability of chargers.

+1

I wonder how much of electric / hybrid is bit of a ‘con’. For instance to improve range the Prius has low rolling resistance tyres, BMW i3 uses carbon fiber to reduce weight and Tesla are using optimized aerodynamics, yet all these would improve ‘normal’ cars ranges as well. Audi showed what could be done years ago with the A2, but for some reason it never sold, instead people buy SUV’s.

For instance to improve range the Prius has low rolling resistance tyres

Prius is not just a hybrid, it’s a whole raft of energy saving features. Including weight saving ideas, the lowest air resistance of any production car (when it came out), a pseudo-Atkinson cycle engine, huge effective gear range, electronic water pump, power steering pump and AC compressor (there are no belts in the new model at all), and lots more besides. The battery that accumulates wasted energy is only part of it – and it’s not just regenerative braking either, it charges the battery to skim off energy that would otherwise be lost in the throttle body. Very clever bit of kit indeed.

The electric motor part of all these hybrids recognises that a) it’s lower CO2 to generate electricity centrally, b) an electric motor is far less lossy at a range of speeds, and c) when trundling around town they are far more efficient. The difference is where the energy comes from. In a non-plug-in Prius it’s wasted energy that’s recovered; in the plug-in cars it’s from the grid, which COULD be more or less renewable depending on where you live.

And in any case, most new cars come with low RR tyres these days anyway, and most cars have shed a load of weight. My dad’s 65 plate Golf is something like 1150kg, lighter than my 10 year old Prius.

Bloody hell what did it weigh? The Golf and Prius would only be around 1300-1500KG today!

I’m talking about today.

The new Golf is 1150kg (from memory, but I can’t find that exact model on the internet), my older Prius is about 1300kg I think. It’s bigger than the Golf mind.

A quick google suggests that the Golf from the same period as my Prius is 1250kg, so it’s lost 100kg.

Had a chat with a BMW sale guy today, the 330e has a significantly reduced boot capacity to make room for the gubbins apparently. The 3 series doesn’t have a big boot anyway.

Had a chat with a BMW sale guy today, the 330e has a significantly reduced boot capacity to make room for the gubbins apparently. The 3 series doesn’t have a big boot anyway.

That’s what I had read too. I spoke to BMW UK as no cars are in showrooms yet, and they assured that the reduction is in the under floor storage. The only thing that currently goes in my under boot storage is snow socks…

That Tesla looks nice, but not available for months yet. My motive for change is sadly not environmental (although positive outcome) the fact that I can reduce payments by £80 per month is what is attracting me

Ordered a 330e this morning.

Decided not to go for a charge point yet, I will just get an outside socket fitted for now as it works out much cheaper and can be used for the cutting the lawn too.

Delivery looking like early June 🙁

Do they have a 330e estate in the works? That would be ideal for getting the bikes in too for me, just can’t get by with a saloon.

Do they have a 330e estate in the works? That would be ideal for getting the bikes in too for me, just can’t get by with a saloon.

Nor me, especially with the reduced boot space due to the gubbins.
I have just done the due dil for hybrids for company cars.
I’ll be getting a 350e estate. Even is it gets half the claimed mpg, we’re better off and the tax is a no brainer. Shop around and you can get one for a cheaper lease than a 320d touring.

You can certainly get a road bike in with seats down.

MTB always tended to go on roof anyhow as it is dirty

Wrecker – you have realised that gov grant of £5k per car is dropping to £2.5k at the end of this month?

Who run’s your salary sacrifice, if you don’t mind me asking and what’s annual mileage is the £314 on ? our scheme is £100+ more 🙁

Wrecker – you have realised that gov grant of £5k per car is dropping to £2.5k at the end of this month?

I have indeed. As long as my order for the lease is in before the 21st then it qualifies (for the £5K).
The lease co gets it, but it reduces the lease costs obviously.

Wrecker – you have realised that gov grant of £5k per car is dropping to £2.5k at the end of this month?

I heard a whisper that the govt pulled it early with no notice yesterday?
Anyone know anything about this?
It would be bad news if it pushes the lease cost up too much. The good news would be; another BMW diesel for me!

Just read an article that BMW are in the process of writing to some customers cancelling 330e orders as they have under estimated demand, and some deals that have been offered were too good. Apparently they are offering a 330d for similar lease cost to try and retain custom, however the BIK is massive in comparison.

I haven’t had a confirmed delivery date yet either, I was originally told early June, aside complications above, apparently delivery is now 6-9 months 😕

Tod – NHS Fleet Solutions

Thanks … Run’s off to check we’re not underwriting that quote!!

Cancelled my order as they couldn’t apply the £5K grant (placed last week).
Normal 2L diesel for me now! At least I won’t have to bother plugging it in!! Shame about the tax but I’m almost relieved.

I’ve had a Merc E330 hybrid (diesel non plug in) for 2.5 yrs I genuinely would not go back to a non hybrid car as a company car simply because the hybrid makes so make sense from a BIK point of view. Mine is 220bhp and I have the option to turn off the hybrid part when needed, say overtaking in country roads as there is a slight turbo lag when running the engine in Eco mode.

I don’t notice the switch from electric to diesel and when driving in our estate or car parks I try to keep it in electric mode.

Tod – Do you work for a lease company?

yes
Guessing your next questions … and I’ve just asked, it look like the orders had to be placed before the 19th of Feb to get the £5k, now it’s £2.5k.
What “Placed” means is anyone guess, and also the grant is linked to a person and not the car … again not really a clue how that works either!

Had my 330e for a couple of days now. It is a fantastic car, makes the technology of the recent diesels and petrol’s I have driven feel ancient.

Its too early for me to see what kind of mpg I will get out of it on a return 45 mile trip through hilly fast country roads, but I can see that if my wife uses on her journey in to work in Leeds, she would not spend a penny on fuel.

It is very debatable whether its an eco car though, the performance is just mind blowing. In a straight line it is quick, but its in the bends where you really feel it, just an instant wall of power 🙂 I am intrigued for a friend who has an M3 to drive it, I bet power delivery wise it is not far off the M3.

Tootling around town you very much look at the dials trying to do everything as efficiently as possible ie accelerate smoothly, brake just enough to charge the battery, but not too much.

However on country roads it all goes out of the window, and you just have an amazing amount of ready torque to play with.

Downside – the boot is smaller than the BMW dealer told me it would be. I will get a road bike in, but an MTB probably not, but then again they almost always go on the roof anyhow..

Tootling around town you very much look at the dials trying to do everything as efficiently as possible ie accelerate smoothly

Yeah, key energy saving feature on my Prius is the big f-off energy usage graph that you try to fill with as much yellow as possible 🙂

Had my 330e for a couple of days now. I bet power delivery wise it is not far off the M3.

Well, there’s almost 200bhp difference and almost 2secs difference in 0-60 time…I think you’d be surprised at just how fast an M3/M4 really is, especially after the initial 0-62 sprint.

Be interested to know what your real-world electric-powered range figures are for it this time of year, given the 7.6KWh capacity and claimed 25 miles. The GTE Golf has a slightly larger one (8.7) for a claimed 30, but since March, I’ve only managed 23 on a full charge; this morning’s 6 degrees meant only a 25 range was displayed, and I reckon that 16 was the limit (14 travelled, 3 remaining as range).