HR/legal thoughts please – graduate roles

Bit of background, MCJnr did a paid internship in the summer of 2023 with one of the “big four”, and was offered a graduate position to start Sept 24 after he graduated, based in the same city as his girlfriend so all fell into place and he signed to accept the offer.

Just after he graduated they pushed back his start date (and the rest of his graduate cohort) to March 2025, which he again signed to agree, and he’s had a couple of part time jobs to help pay their rent since then.

Today, in a not totally unexpected move as that whole sector seems to be having the same issues, they’ve said they want to amend his (and the rest of the cohorts) start date to Sept 2025, working in a different business area that he isn’t interested in, or he can have £5k compensation to walk away and go out into the job market again along with all the 2025 graduates.

Presumably if the contract he signed was just for a generic graduate role, them changing the business role and start date is just tough luck?

He’s stalled for time by asking them what guarantee would he have that he really would start in Sept 25, as well as starting the job hunt again. My initial thoughts are that if he walks away he should ask them for more compensation, but can’t see there’s any basis for him to demand that. Pretty sure a couple of his law graduate mates will be checking the contract for him just in case.

Any thoughts on anything else to consider?

Based on my dealings with ‘ the big 4’ in the past few months, I would have no confidence that the contract will actually start in September 2025. They all seem to be playing a game juggling supply and demand, keeping potential new hires ‘warm’ while they wait to land contracts with clients which are also getting delayed.

It could all change again.
question is: does he want £5,000 now or an uncertain payoff in 2025?

if the former then it’d be worth asking for more based on the idea that 6 months’ salary (march to September) would have been worth a bit more.

good luck on the choice.

Edit.
I’d suggest that all employer-employee relationships should be viewed as entirely transactional.

Confirming my thoughts, and his.

I think they would technically be in breach of contract so have an obligation to make good losses.  £5000 would seem a not unreasonable offer as he would be expected to mitigate the losses by getting a different job?

Obviously you would need proper advice but I cannot see the harm in asking for more

I’d suggest that all employer-employee relationships should be viewed as entirely transactional.

agree on this in theory – however, how will they view someone who kicks up a stink and does anything other than accept one of the 2 choices presented by them?

If he wants a career at one of the big 4, he’s just eliminated 25% of employment chances before he’s even begun.

Very different industry, but as a graduate I declined follow up interviews from 2 companies that wanted me for roles different to that which I had applied for.

Pretty sure I’m blacklisted from both.

I’m confused by those saying he’ll get more than £5k.  What’s the notice period from the employer in the first two years? ( or minutes or hours if you prefer)

I’m pretty sure they could just turn round to him and say

” Ok, sure turn up on. Spring 2025 and pick up your redundancy cheque of sweet **** all as you’ve been with us for half a working day”

I’d take the money rather than try a chase for more.  Use the energy to land to focus on trying to get a new role.

Make sure that there’s no lock out period and take the 5k, then reapply for the same role, possibly even in the September intake, along with anything else available. He should be in an ideal position, having already been an intern…

I’m confused by those saying he’ll get more than £5k.  What’s the notice period from the employer in the first two years?

His notice period is 1 month, so I agree, he could turn up day 1, and be made redundant with just one months notice.

They have offered £5k as a sweetener to go away, rather than take that cheaper option. That suggests that they are either actually really nice people; or are trying to minimise the bad feeling/reputational damage of one of the so-called “Top 3 Graduate Employers” screwing over their 2023/24 cohort; or are trying to discourage people from trying to claim a breach of contract (depending on the wording of the contract).

My lad turned down other options to go with the delayed start in March next year. Despite having part time jobs in the meantime, if they were in breach of contract, as TJ suggests, they’d owe him a fair bit more than £5k. Plus costs.

they’d owe him a fair bit more than £5k

Really?  I know in unfair dismissals cases you have a duty to minimise losses by getting other jobs.  Its forgone salary minus the money you could have earned / did earn in the interim period.  He has already agreed to the first period of delay so including that might be tricky.

There will be costs involved in taking it a long way ( on both sides) so to get a bit more might be possible, to get a lot more I doubt.

But its just my guess

His notice period is 1 month, so I agree, he could turn up day 1, and be made redundant with just one months notice.

He might not even get to day 1.

He should think himself lucky theyre even offering money.

During an Oil and Gas downturn, i was supposed to get a graduate on my team, but the company also delayed the start date (waiting for more contracts to ensure longevity). In the end they recinded the job offers to that graduate cohort. No ‘go away’ money offered…..

My lad turned down other options to go with the delayed start in March next year.

If he’s already been accepted but turned down the offer, might it be worth approaching the interviewers (rather than recruitment) and see if there is any wiggle room? I know we’ve done it a couple of times for good graduates/candidates.

just tough luck?

Pretty much this.

I’d just cut my losses and take the £5k
If you go to the big 4 (or any blue chip company) they are pretty ruthless with people, especially graduates.

Chalk it up to experience and move on.

Over a working life £5k doesn’t even cover the odd coffee and sandwich. I’d accept the September start but keep looking. If something comes along then have a discussion on options.

What I wouldn’t do is start mentioning legal action or increase compensation as consulting is a small world heavily driven by networking and relationships.

If your lad had other options then it sounds like getting the “big four” offer wasn’t a fluke. I would take the £5k and chances are if they are mucking graduates about and the September 2025 intake becomes a reality then they will be opening applications back up again Q1-Q2 next year. So if he is still looking then it might not be the end. With a bit of experience between now and then he could also look at entry level roles looking for professional experience.

I’ve worked for 2 of the Big 6 (as was), I’d take the £5k and go look for another job – but don’t spend it until it’s actually in his account…

He should think himself lucky they’re even offering money.

This.

They’re under no obligation to offer him anything and can withdraw an offer at any point before the start date. He’s not entitled to any compensation as he’s not in post yet.

In his shoes, I’d be assuming there isn’t a job there, either now or in September, and to start looking for something new. His decision to make is to take £5k for definitely no job there or £0 for possible a job in September. Not sure what I’d do as a grad, though I’m leaning towards waiting until September and seeing if there’s another payoff then if the job doesn’t materialise.

Either way, not a great situation to be in, but that’s grad recruitment I’m afraid.

His notice period is 1 month, so I agree, he could turn up day 1, and be made redundant with just one months notice.

Usually it would have a probation period with a shorter/immediate notice period.

Take the offer and get back on the market pronto.

He’s only getting further away from the top of the list when it comes to grad roles and has no real experience in the field.

Not unknown for new starters to be informed that their job offer has been withdrawn with zero compensation – any ‘compensation’ is purely goodwill.

Take the money. No guarantee the position will be available next September and economic markers are saying next year will be another tough one so best to get back on the job hunt.

My administrator landed bot 1:1 in HR and a job with a big company consulting on such things.
They let her down on start date, but she moved down from Glasgow to Manchester anyway as boyfriend had also taken a new job there so they could be together.
The day before she was due to start they announced that the grad scheme in Manchester was full, and so she would be starting in London for 6 months, then off to Dublin.
I would take money and find another job.

Take the money. No guarantee the position will be available next September and economic markers are saying next year will be another tough one so best to get back on the job hunt.

Is pretty much his view. Burns fewest bridges

Lotus cars did much the same to me as a grad many years ago, except there was no compensation..

Take the £5k, politely thank them for their time & move on.

Chartered Accountant here, I wouldn’t work for any of them. We get the youngsters coming to us to do audits. Long hours = poor hourly pay, and stretching targets. Suck it up for a few years max.

Take the money. No guarantee the position will be available next September and economic markers are saying next year will be another tough one so best to get back on the job hunt.
Is pretty much his view. Burns fewest bridges

^^^ This.

Take the money but avoid burning the bridge.

As for the economy, the announcement of the raise in water bill today will definitely impact on many businesses and it looks like it will be another tough year ahead.

Legally they don’t need to give him anything. A few others have posted similar sentiments, I’d say take the money but try to keep contact and on good relations.

Over a working life £5k doesn’t even cover the odd coffee and sandwich. I’d accept the September start but keep looking.

This is what would appeal to me more. Taking the £5k and job hunting is tempting – but the market is evidently weak. The lad can still job hunt in the meantime and if he gets something, he won’t think again about that £5k because he’ll be earning elsewhere. But if he takes the £5k and doesn’t find anything suitable before September that will be a pain. Obviously there is a chance they’ll flake out completely…but it’s not that high a chance, is it?

Would you buy a £5k raffle ticket for a 2 in 3 chance at winning a £xk job at the Big Four, in other words…

Take the money.

Don’t push your luck or try anything clever, they will definitely f him up, best case is he gets £0. They are bigger and better than you, and this game is theirs.

working in a different business area that he isn’t interested in

They want him to take the money.

There’s plenty more in their standard box of tricks for getting people to bugger off.

Was about to say what @politecameraaction said. Keep the September start date in the back pocket while looking elsewhere because if he lands another job, £5k will be irrelevant and if he doesn’t and the job comes through – all good.

Pocket the £5k, go out onto the job market and reapply Sep-25.

The ‘big four’ are like any Flash Harry outfit – in actual fact largely reactive and short-termist when times are tough. If he is a standout candidate he will get a role at some point if persistent.

Knowing the kind of character they often employ, a cheeky grin and saying “well you offered me money for nothing, I’m not stupid” would count in his favour at interview.

🙂

Keep options open, say yes to the Sept 2015. Meanwhile apply to the other 3. If one gives you a better deal take it, if not walk in in Sept. If they bail again you will get the £5k.

Don’t make threats or play silly games.

In the meantime try and get another internship at one of the other 3 or take any paid job at the 1st.

If you can show you are trustful, work hard, provide value and make a friend they may fight for you to help you through the grad recruitment process.

They want him to take the money.

There’s plenty more in their standard box of tricks for getting people to bugger off.

They don’t want rid of him in particular – they just need to hack down the pool from the 100 they accepted to the 40 (or whatever) they actually need. If this were my kid, I’d be encouraging them to let other grads drop out, ride out the delay, and stick with the programme.

it’s a gamble. Is he more likely to end up starting in September on the grad scheme or more likely to find an equivalent/better job elsewhere before September…?

Chartered Accountant here, I wouldn’t work for any of them. We get the youngsters coming to us to do audits. Long hours = poor hourly pay, and stretching targets. Suck it up for a few years max.

They’ve always had this approach, as said I worked for 2 of the Big Six back in the early 90’s – not as a grad but as a recruited SME.  “Up or Out” was the approach, either promoted at the end of each year or let go.

But, if all he did was qualify with them, pretty much set-up for life – still paying my bills +30 years later.

They’ve always had this approach, as said I worked for 2 of the Big Six back in the early 90’s – not as a grad but as a recruited SME. “Up or Out” was the approach, either promoted at the end of each year or let go.

100%. This is also why clients rarely see the same actual do-ers on their annual audit and the audit manager (who they might see 2-3 times if they’re ‘lucky’) doesn’t properly understand the client as they aren’t getting their hands dirty.

But, as the poster above says, that name on your CV and qualifying with them still carries weight. I’m still deriving some benefit from being on the graduate scheme of a large UK bank for a couple of years. In reality my roles were team dogsbody and someone to find work for in the short-term. I enjoyed the piss-ups, though.

Chartered Accountant here, I wouldn’t work for any of them. We get the youngsters coming to us to do audits. Long hours = poor hourly pay, and stretching targets. Suck it up for a few years max.

It’s the audit side they want to move him to, which is why he doesn’t want to go there

Nothing to add here except I’d like to improve my knowledge. What/who are “The Big Four”?

Nothing to add here except I’d like to improve my knowledge. What/who are “The Big Four”?

They are the 4 biggest accountancy/consultancy businesses.

The fact that they are known as “the big 4” tells you all you need to know.

It you imagine a sci-fi film where these blob life forms merge and gobble up the little life forms, wipe out their idiosyncrasies and individuality to assimilate them in to the hive. They continue to grow and merge until only a few behemothian blobs are left, all of which are too big, too rich and to expensive to function or to fail.

As each blob forms they combine their first letters into the name of the blob, and the last letters fall off and become forgotten.

They’re well known for having signed off commercial audits/ accounts of huge companies just before they go bust.