How Much?! Just for fun!

Thing is, it’s easy to make an attention-grabbing product by taking a no limits attitude to cost. Diminished returns aside it should be a good result. But what interests me far more is the point where you’re at the vast majority of the performance and durability but a fraction of the cost. Very hard to pinpoint that point and it’s subjective, maybe that’s why the interest. Andrew on NSMTB writes some good stuff about the high-low approach to building bikes.

Anyway, £25k bikes, crack on if you can I say… Would be an amazing bike, and interesting to know what a relatively ‘blind’ test would say about it.

Must say I’m disappointed by the tyres, only £75 seems quite low-budget by comparison!

doesn’t seem to be a daft expensive option here, think £85-90 is the upper limit for RRP, those I mentioned were just ones that came to mind. Even the expensive ones get discounted too.

Get yourself some NOS white Onza porcs on that bad boy

Ah wait, then you’d need 26″ wheels so swap the rear for a NOS Tioga Disc drive pro on a Mavic 117 ceramic, the front a NOS 3dv Ringlé bubba hub on same rim with titanium spokes. Whilst your at it swap the frame for one of the 6 original Yeti C-26’s, the forks for some titanium IRD’s anodised by Leni Fried, the brakes for 3dv Grafton Mag-Lites and the levers for 3DV Grafton Re-entry levers.

Weirdly it seems to show how  affordable bikes are. We are in F1 steering wheel territory or less than you’ll spend on extras buying a Ferrari. 

My mtb cost less than a tenth of that. But it’s all there on my bike.

Kapz headset top cap…I got one made specially for my 50th …£85…some are a bit more…so add that to the list

Would be an amazing bike, and interesting to know what a relatively ‘blind’ test would say about it.

I wonder this about all of the mega priced bikes and components along with plenty of sensibly priced stuff. I’d imagine that the huge majority of us couldn’t tell the difference between one tyre/fork/shock/groupset and another in blind testing despite what we tell ourselves and others. 

and as for how much he spends (rather than a brands marketing budget these days) I don’t reckon it’s much at all.

Ah, ok. Because he isn’t spending this fictional budget, it doesn’t count 😀

I want to see @Stevet1 do a money no object retro bike project… move over Dangerholm

We can get up a bit on tyres: Rene Herse Fleecer Ridge in 29×2.2, Endurance Plus casing are £101 per tyre. Won’t be as good in practice unless you’re eBikepacking the Tour Divide, but who said this was a logical exercise anyway…

or spend 10x less and get a functionality similar bike

https://www.balfesbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/trek-slash-97-slxxt-29-full-suspension-mountain-bike-2022-in-green__28341

That looks a cracking bike. Why the large price reduction (£4.4k to £2.6k)?  I’ve not been looking for a new bike, but, seeing that makes me lust after one, it actually loks like the type of bike I like. My current FS bike is a 2006 Santa Cruz Superlight, 26”, 18 speed etc. I’m debating whether to get rid (its worth £250 tops), and get a loan to buy that Trek. Any thoughts on it?

OK I’ll admit, I’m surprised that came out so “cheap”.

Maybe add a fancy power meter? Doesn’t matter whether they actually work on eebs or not.

Thought I’d stumbled across a Fresh Goods Friday thread for a minute there 😛

Anyone come up with a non-Eeb version yet. Be interested to know what the priciest frame would be.
I could only find Unno frames.. blimmin hideous – https://www.unno.com/dash/ about 4K

They do have one called the Horn, which is admirable 😀

https://www.btr-fabrications.com/products/pinner-frame/#frame-options – £4.2K .. getting there

Be interested to know what the priciest frame would be.

I’m sure Tom will report back with a conclusive verdict soon, but you can pay £5,150 for an Atherton frame with some custom geometry tweaks.

https://www.athertonbikes.com/am-170-frame.html

And it’s a bike I’d actually want to own, unlike the Unno.

But what interests me far more is the point where you’re at the vast majority of the performance and durability but a fraction of the cost. Very hard to pinpoint that point and it’s subjective, maybe that’s why the interest. Andrew on NSMTB writes some good stuff about the high-low approach to building bikes.

I’ve been wondering about about the 80/20 rule and if it can be applied to buying bikes and bike parts.

By that I mean the idea that you should be able to get 80% of the performance if you spend 20% of the price.  So does that mean that a £2000 bike is 80% as good as a £10,000 bike?  Is a £400 bike 80% as good as a £2000 bike (and 64% as good as a £10,000 bike)?

I guess the difficulty in answering that question is what is it 80% of?  Like, how exactly do you measure performance?

I’m sure Tom will report back

Actofive Ptrain CNC I think, custom builders notwithstanding.

€6,750. Plus Shock.

P-TRAIN FRAME KIT

Ooh yeah, that’s nice and not far short of the eeb.

well, my go to standard off the peg Ti jones frame with nice build bits (king, Boone ti, Hed carbon rims etc..) would come it 12.5K for a singlespeed and that’s without going mental on custom Ti frames or forks.

Stick a battery and geary noncesense on a bike and yeah I could easily see bikes well into 20K + region.

I had to price up my current collection of niche tat for new insurance and surprised the hell out myself. Its amazing how costs add up with multiple interesting things over time. (not including the costs my custom built fort knox bike store and workshop, that pretty much invincible unless you bulldoze it)

It’s almost like GMBN read the forum……….

22.7k. Amateurs.

And Maximas don’t work with Hope Vented rotors.

They beat you on a few items though and without a custom paint job.

By that I mean the idea that you should be able to get 80% of the performance if you spend 20% of the price.  So does that mean that a £2000 bike is 80% as good as a £10,000 bike?  Is a £400 bike 80% as good as a £2000 bike (and 64% as good as a £10,000 bike)?

Pretty much but it doesn’t work at the extremes and there is a tipping point, i.e. a £200 bike will not be 80% as good as a £1000 bike because a £1000 bike is really good enough for most people whereas a £200 bike is a complete piece of crap

22.7k. Amateurs.

And Maximas don’t work with Hope Vented rotors.

And they missed out the chain ring, and as far as I know, there’s no compatible chain ring that works on O-chain with SRAM transmission.

Also the Synchros wheels are XC not enduro.

as far as I know, there’s no compatible chain ring that works on O-chain with SRAM transmission.

104BCD Titanium Chainring – 5DEV

@kerley

Pretty much but it doesn’t work at the extremes and there is a tipping point, i.e. a £200 bike will not be 80% as good as a £1000 bike because a £1000 bike is really good enough for most people whereas a £200 bike is a complete piece of crap

Absolutely. At the very bottom end, parts are made to have features that look good in the shop and last a reasonable amount of time with gentle usage. Pay a bit more and you get substantial increases in durability due to better quality materials. More still and you get better serviceability, then more features, and finally exotic materials for weight savings.

There’s definitely a sweet spot, although it may vary from person to person. I still wonder whether I overpaid for my full sus because I don’t use half of the adjustability on the fork.

Pretty much but it doesn’t work at the extremes and there is a tipping point, i.e. a £200 bike will not be 80% as good as a £1000 bike because a £1000 bike is really good enough for most people whereas a £200 bike is a complete piece of crap

I guess it also depends on what your criteria for what a £200 bike actually is.  For example, I assume we’re not counting second hand.  Too many variables, like knowing the right person or being in the right place at the right time.

However, does a £500 bike that’s been on the shelf for a year and a half and is now on sale for 60% off count (used to be pretty common pre-pandemic)?  If you base it purely on RRP then I guess there’s a price point for a Minimum Viable Mountain Bike but what exactly would that be?

If I had to take a guess I’d say around £6-700 is the minimum you could RRP a bike that was actually up to handling trail centre type riding.  Something like this:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/vitus-nucleus-27-vr-mountain-bike-black

So, assuming you wanted an extra 20% performance the you’d be looking at spending £3,000-3,500 which would get you something like this:

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/p/vitus-escarpe-27-crs-mountain-bike

It would be interesting to see a magazine do some tests to see how well this 80/20 rule stands up.  I’m not sure but the Escarpe feels like it would give more than a 20% improvement but then I’m not sure if it would actually make me 20% faster. But it comes back to the question of what you’re measuring when you say 20% ‘better’

If I had to take a guess I’d say around £6-700 is the minimum you could RRP a bike that was actually up to handling trail centre type riding.

There have been loads of “cheap bike subjected to…[wholly inappropriate riding]” articles over the years. Might have been the late Steve Worland took a £200 “MTB” down Cap d’Ail downhill course and it and the rider broadly survived.

GCN have put one of those horrific Amazon Eurobike road bikes through all sorts including the Arenberg Trench section from Paris-Roubaix and they regularly do “cheap bike vs superbike” videos.

I think the cut-off used to be about £400 for a “decent” MTB, maybe with inflation etc it’s closer to £600 or so now. The problem with really cheap bikes is that they become uneconomical to fix almost immediately. You can buy any number of <£200 bikes from Halfords / catalogues etc but as soon as it needs any replacement parts, it’s £30 for tyres, £30 for the cassette, £10 for the chain, £10 for the brake blocks…. Plus labour because the people buying those things don’t have the first clue about them. My LBS has one of those in most days – “can you just…?”
Yes, but it’ll cost you £60.
But I only paid £100 for the whole bike!

But it comes back to the question of what you’re measuring when you say 20% ‘better’

Better as in actually stops and goes reliably, doesn’t fall apart at the first bit of off-road, is comfortable and fun to ride…

alanl
I’m debating whether to get rid (its worth £250 tops), and get a loan to buy that Trek. Any thoughts on it?

Do it. That’s a fantastic buy!
If I was in the market for a new full sus (without an engine), I’d be all over that.

In a useable xc hard tail theme.. pricing Inc vat but not duty

Frame: Sturdy cycles Tara frame (no custom paint) £7200

Fork: Bright racing xco £1836

Headset: ceramic speed bearings x2 (£112 each) + covers and crown race £236

Stem: Schmolke TLo stem 100mm £540

Bar: Schmolke TLo £326

Grips: rev grips £100

Seat post: reverb axs £760

Rear mech & shifter: Hopp carbon SRAM XX SL Eagle Transmission derailleuer with full carbon upgrade £1350

Cassette: SRAM xx £500

Chain: SRAM xx £90

Cranks & chain ring: Sturdy cycles £1752

BB: ceramic speed £365

Saddle: selle Italia SLR carbon £450

Brakes: trickstuff piccola hd £1000

Wheels: syncros carbon £4500

Pedals: Garmin MTB £600

Tyres: Pirelli scorpion £140

Tubeless valves / sealant etc: £100

That’s £21,845 , for a hardtail!

could probably add to that as well with various misc parts. Topcap, carbon through axles etc.

I remember doing this as a teenager in very late 80s/early 90s with catalogues and bike mags!
Obvs no ebikes but the most I could really get to was around £2k based on a Pace RC100,RC30s, Bullseye cranks, magura hydro’s, syncros hardware etc.  I’m sure there was exotica in the states I’d never heard about as it hadn’t made its way to rural cambridgeshire but I could have ordered and bought this set up from my LBS,Ben Haywards in Cambridge
Apparently this equates to almost 6k now. Considering this was just a fully rigid hardtail I guess the dial hasn’t moved as far as we think.

Edit….ahhhh and then we have monkeyboyj posting!

That’s £21,845 , for a hardtail!

Imagine taking that out for its first ever ride and wrapping it around a tree. 😳
Or being overtaken by kids on Carreras, wheelie-ing up the hill.

I could prob add another 2k.to my build with a bit more than a quick Google – dward design chain ring would add £150 for example & I’m sure that there are more expensive xc tyres out there. Bottle cages can cost £100 each…

@tomhoward you’ll need to knock off a couple grand from your virtual kenevo as eEwing’s, BB & ring etc won’t be needed as it already comes with carbon cranks for the motor.

The kenevo also has a £700? X2 Shock on it already and comes with a headset and bunch of other bits. If the task is purely expense on a usable compatible bike, your prob better starting with non ebike frame that comes with a no shock option – Atherton / actofive / Nicolai or similar? I know that they aren’t off the shelf & in stock etc.

With the cranks etc, I assume no one would want them SH, so no value to them, that’s why I took £500 off the shock price, as I assume you could get something back offloading the povo spec *checks* Fox Factory Shock once replaced.