How much difference do good wheels make?

Have built up a Cotic soul recently using mostly bits from my old fairly budget Felt hardtail. Have upgraded several bits since like brakes, bars, seatpost etc, but the bike feels heavy compared to some of my friends’ bikes.

I think this may be down to the wheels, so I’m wondering if it’s worth spending what seems like a lot to upgrade? Also would love Hope hubs as I like the clacky noise they make.
Currently have Mavic XC-117 rims with shimano hubs.

Any thoughts? Do wheels make a big a difference? Any recommendations on decent wheels for general XC riding?

Thanks.

WIthout going in to a mass of detail, yes they make a serious difference.

Try Hope Hoops running Crest rims, go tubeless (with latex) and aim for the lightest, least treaded-tyre you can get away with.

Wheels are one of the easiest places to save a fair chunk of weight. Hope hubs/Stans rims (probably crests, maybe flows if you’re heavy) are a good combo, and easy to convert to tubeless if you ever feel the need.

As above if you get on with the 117 then you’ll be fine with crest rims.

I changed from budget shimano to hope hoops (with the old 355 now replaced by the crest) and they are much much lighter.

Get some lighter tyres on there and go tubeless and you won’t find much lighter without spending very serious money. They are tough enough for me, had them for 2 years and they are still true depite some hard riding.

My suggestion would be to check out progressive bikes as I saw them cheap yesterday if not look at gettng them handbuilt at Merlin as bizarrely that worked out chepaer than the hoops when I bought a rear wheel the other week.

Other tips are an XT casette, racing ralph or similar light tyres, tubeless, ESI silicone grips (or foam ones).

Thanks all – always good to hear similar advice from a number of people.

shimano hubs are much cheaper, lighter and spin more freely, although they dont make the stupid/nice clicky noise. even if you have deore hubs on 117 rims i dont think there will be much difference between those and the hope options above^^, do some research easy enough to compare.

nice wheels are nice but are the same as any bike part you will spend an ever increasing amount of £ to get an ever decreasing amount of weight.
apart from the above the obvious things that no one pointed out is the cotic is steel(heavy) what do your friends ride if it is heavy in comparison and what fork have you got on it. might be better to invest in forks than wheels.

Tubless light weight best up grade ever 🙂

Shimano hubs do spin freely certainly, but they’re not light.

I’ve got some Hope Hoops on Crest rims and find them a bit disappointing, the hubs have vast amounts of drag, I suspect it’s psychological, but they feel far slower than my race wheels (which run A2Z hubs). If you don’t mind sourcing bits yourself rather than buying from an online calculator I’d recommend A2Z hubs, Crest rims and Competition spokes. Cheaper than Hope Hoops and lighter. Bearing life probably won’t be as good, but mine are still perfect after a whole season of racing and jet washing. Not quite as clicky either.

Its not just weight that makes a difference, its the stiffness as well. I noticed huge improvements in front-end control upgrading to American Classic wheels from entry level Mavic’s.

I have a front Deore M475 disc-hub with a Mavic XM117 v-brake rim that weighs 925g. A good lightweight front will weigh under 750g.

Planet-X have been doing Schwalbe Rocket Rons for £15 that weigh approx 510g. Coupled with a light tube will be very cost-effective solution.
They were also doing folding Kenda Nevegal 2.1″ 630g at £10 that are a better winter bet.

PaulD

As other have said, they make a massive difference. And as Njee have said the Hope hopes are quite draggy. If you wanted bling then I’d recommend American classics on Alpine rims.

A little test ive conducted with my brother bike who has new hope hubs.
Hung both bikes up and span the wheels…. His span for 1 minutes mine close to 5minutes. All the science I need: D

PaulD – Member
I have a front Deore M475 disc-hub with a Mavic XM117 v-brake rim that weighs 925g. A good lightweight front will weigh under 750g.

my point exactly, 175g for how much money? unless your wheels are fcked spend the cash on tyres tubes etc will save you more weight v cash.
at the end of the day if you want clicky hubs buy them, it is part of the fun of biking

Decent wheels make a massive amount of difference.

I’ve got a reign X and went from some hope/Mavic wheels to some mavic crossmax’s, 9 months back and wow, it feels like a totally different bike. Strong, Stiff and light, the bike turns in more positively and accelerates much more quickly. Shame they come at a price.

njee20 – Member
Shimano hubs do spin freely certainly, but they’re not light

xt hubs are about the same weight but half the price as pro2, xtr are under hope pro2 weight and about same price. xt everytime for me, some people wont do cup/cone hubs though.

Wheels do make a diffence – but as above, cheap way is to get good tyres AND ride some more to get fitter and not notice them so much…!

Yes wheel make a difference, but yours don’t sound over heavy, maybe look into lighter tyres and going tubeless.

Also if you just looking at saving weight look at forks, (prob be more money than wheels) but you said parts from “old fairly budget Felt hardtail” so I would think the forks are going to be heavy. (and maybe not that good)

How are you going to go tubeless without changing the rims? You could use rimstrips but they weigh as much as a tube.

And the spin test is likely more to do with the brakes than the hubs.

Get some stans rims on hope hubs or xt if the like faffing. Run them tubeless with yellow tape anf 500g tyres all in most people will save a good deal of weight and the wheels will be stiff, turn quicker and feel much better.

I have had many different wheels in the past (except 29ers as apparently they explode) and my latest set are around 100g heavier than my last set but much stiffer and this has made the biggest difference, I now feel like a riding god when cornering!

xt hubs are about the same weight but half the price as pro2, xtr are under hope pro2 weight and about same price. xt everytime for me, some people wont do cup/cone hubs though.

XT are heavier, 6-bolt ones significantly, and centerlock ones need heavier rotors or adapters. XTR at retail at least are far more expensive than Hope, although you do get skewers. From Rose Bikes or similar they may well be cheaper though.

Like I say, A2Z… Lighter than all, only just more expensive than XT.

I had lightweight XC wheels (Ritchey WCS rims on no-name cartridge bearing hubs) from my Boardman HT Pro on my Soul for a while (and 100mm 9QR Reba forks). When I changed to Hope Pro 2 Evo with Stans Flow wheels (and 140mm 15mm bolt-thru Floats) I noticed no change in rolling resistance, rotational inertia or weight but I did notice a vast change in the ability of the bike to go exactly where it’s pointed and not be knocked off line by rocks and bumps. Much more positive feeling. Ghetto tubeless before, Stans tubeless after, same tyres (Bontrager XR4).

Your wheels aren’t cheap or heavy or flimsy so any change won’t be as significant. I can’t see a wheel change within a sensible budget making your bike feel noticeably faster. Changing tyres and going tubeless (ghetto works!) will make a difference. Pedalling harder will make much more difference! 😉

Don’t comproise with narrow, lightweight tires though. Nothing less that 2.3 will do for me, the weight factor is nothing compared to the traction and security a big tire gives.

60a 2.35 (an skinny Maxxis ratings at that) is my preferred width rear tyre for DH racing (even at FT Bill, what are you riding that you need massive amounts of grip?

I disagree with the comments about Hope hubs not rolling as quick as say Shimano.

I have a Five with Hope Pro hubs and Mavic 317 rims.

The bike freewheels way quicker and than any of my friends bikes.

are you way fatter than your friends too? 😛

Don’t worry too much about the hubs, as the best way to improve wheels is to save weight at the rim. Less weight here (lighter rims, tyres, tubes and even spokes) gives better acceleration and less effort into getting the thing moving.

Saving even 100g at the rim will make a difference. Using the lightest rims and tyres etc can save loads more. You can save 200g and more just by switching from heavy ‘freeride’ tyres to lightweight ‘XC’ tyres. That makes a world of difference to the ride of the bike.

In the Real World, you’ll only feel the difference with a wheelset weighing say 200-300g less if you really push yourself and the bike. Dirty great big climbs are where lighter wheels make a significant difference. And of course, braking performance is improved as stopping a lighter wheel takes less force than stopping a heavier one. Simple physics.

One of my bikes has lightweight wheels with 400g rims, light spokes, light hubs etc. The other has rims which weigh 550-600g each, heavier spokes and hubs. TBH, I don’t really notice the difference until I start pushing myself on the bike. For Mountain Mayhem, I used my lighter wheeled bike SSed, and it was noticeably better at climbing than the other one. But for general having fun, it don’t make a lot of difference really.

As for hubs; I’ve got Hope XC hubs that are now 8 years old without even so much as a service, and they’re still perfect. I’ve noticed newer Shimano hubs suffer too often from freewheel failures, which rules them out for me. Older ones seem ok though, and if serviced regularly, can keep running for years and years. Shimano stuff has dropped significantly in quality over the last few years though unfortunately. More expensive, less good.

Just twiddle them by hand, Shimanos are extremely smooth. Hope aren’t. It’s the price you pay for good sealing.

Oh and all Shimano hubs are Cup and Cone bearings. Nowt wrong with that; properly fettled they can spin freer than sealed cartridge bearings, but they do require regular checking and maintenance to keep them running smoothly (at least once a month if you ride in bad weather). Require cone spanners, so additional tool costs. Get a teeny bit of wear on the cup, and it’s new hub time as you’ll never ever get it to run that smoothly again. Newer cups don’t seem to last long compared to older hubs.

Cartridge bearings; run them until they die. My Hopes have bin out in all weathers, yet are still perfectly smooth running.

GW – I now weigh 5.5 stone after all the bullying I’ve been through on here.

Wow – thanks for all the responses – went for a ride* and came back to tons more advice.

Regarding the fork, I upgraded that with the frame, went from a Tora to a Revelation. Brakes are Hope X2, gears are SRAM X9 and chainset is SLX.

The friends bike I compare it to is a Charge Duster XT. It’s mega light in comparison.

Good to hear some support for Shimano hubs – to be honest I’ve fallen in love with the Hope clacky noise but depending on total cost it’s good to know there’s a solid alternative.

*managed to stack it into a tree stump, go over the bars and rip my saddle off so there’s another purchase to mull 🙁

Hopes make you sound the most pro. I had a Shimano XT hub and it was ok but I don’t like the maintenance of cup and cone, and also one of the cups pitted and it will no longer spin smoothly.

When you compared your bike’s weight to others, did it have two full water bottles in the cages? 😉

My Soul is built for bends and downhills, not climbing, and it weighs 27.5lbs. I can’t see a Duster XT weighing less than 25lbs – a valuable difference in a XC race but almost entirely psychological when you’re not against the clock!

Here’s a bargain set of wheels for you:

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/WPFURDCAR/fulcrum-red-carbon-mtb-wheelset?utm_source=Planet+X+and+On+One&utm_campaign=c41c4e8161-Sunday_16th_October_2011_Block_Version10_14_2011&utm_medium=email

And they’re still bloody heavy!