How long to be a credible Cat 4 or am I just crap (road content)

Just reading with interest on the race prep and training side of things, kryton I know where you’re coming from in wanting to get a good result to feel good about when so much of cycling is about racing. Is it important that the success comes from road racing? You’re up against it if you’re starting late in that game and there’s other areas of riding you may be more competitive in, 24hr for ex where riders either side of 40 often put in good performances against younger riders and just a finish is impressive. fwiw, fair dues to you for having a go anyway. I’d be out the back of a 3/4 bunch pretty fast.

That said though, racing is not all about fitness at all, it’s one of those skills that develops over time so don’t get too disheartened early on

I think this echoes my earlier comment; it’s not about horsepower, it’s far more subtle…

My tip would be to race as much as you can after getting a decent base done, and soak it up, learn about racing, stop ‘trying to win’ and just race for the experience.

Then…

When you are confident racing here, when you think you are doing OK, take a trip to Belgium, a long weekend, and race a few of the little local races over there. You’ll be amazed at how different it is, you’ll be amazed at how fast you can actually ride and you’ll learn a whole lot more.

Racing a bike isn’t about being big, strong, powerful or having the best VO2 Max, it’s about thinking.

It’s not called chess on wheels for nothing.

Jameson I’m doing some mtb endurance (HONC, Bonty 24/12) solo as mtb is my background.

Oldgit I’m 41. Last few posts are very interesting, being quite insular I’ve not been very wise to others ability/training/knowledge, assuming my training would carry me through. Taking heed of crickeys para I think that’s what I’ll do – use this year as experience, going on the family holiday in August and come back and think if I want to continues the racing road bikes in 2015. Thanks for that.

Just in the immediacy based on the advice I was thinking perhaps then to miss the current series over the next three Saturdays and defer to a club ride each weekend to get some distance in my legs and practise some skills, use a SERRL event at the end of Feb as a warm up, then star proper with LVRC in mid march – thoughts on that and continuing my weekly turbo workouts – bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest….?

Remember Chris Carmichael built a career on training LA to win all those Tours yet never recommended EPO, blood transfusions, steroid creams and so on…

Just learn your craft.

I was in a similar situation 10-12 years ago – had a good sponsorship deal (frame plus trade on parts), doing loads of racing both road and MTB at a good level (lower end of 1st, upper end of 2nd) but as bikebouy says, the effort and sacrifice needed to stay there is considerable. I was working shifts at the time so had loads of time to train, ride and race but eventually I looked back on another season of trawling up and down the country to National Series MTB races, getting top 20 in Expert MTB or mid pack in E/1/2 road at best and just thought “why?”

That’s pretty much where I was a couple of years ago, and I sure as **** never felt the pressure bikebouy did!

Surprised there are domestic pros in 2nd cat, plenty of folk with full time jobs seem to get to 1st/elite!

Remember Chris Carmichael built a career on training LA to win all those Tours yet never recommended EPO, blood transfusions, steroid creams and so on…

On saying the was training LA. According to Hamilton, Carmichael had very little, if anything, to do with training LA. LA’s training involved lots and lots of illegal techniques coming from various European workers.

Surprised there are domestic pros in 2nd cat, plenty of folk with full time jobs seem to get to 1st/elite!

There aren’t… most of the elite cats have jobs and the one’s that don’t get paid very little if anything, there are very few domestic pros that get paid enough to sustain themselves from bike racing alone. The only exception is Mansell’s son, whose Dad paid his wage, he wasn’t actually good enough to be paid any real money to ride his bike though.

most of the elite cats have jobs

It’s not difficult to find time to train and do a full time job if training is your number one priority. When I was serious about running I’d either go early morning or lunchtime, then another run after work. If I had been cycling back then it would have been easy to find 3 or 4 hours a day for riding every day and do a full time job. Life did revolve around eating, sleeping and training though. Which was fine when I didn’t have a demanding job, wife, kids, dog, a house with a seemingly endless list of jobs and chores that need doing.

bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest….?

If you’ve done the TCC plan then knocking it back a bit is probably a good idea. Did it a couple of years ago now and felt great at the end of it and had some good results. Then a couple of weeks later had a major overtraining style collapse.

Read your first post.
Skipped all in between.
You are just a crap rider.
😛
My 25 mile TT times are faster than that and you know how crap a rider I am.

bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest….?

To be honest, any non-elite rider attempting to follow generic training advice from a book (Joe Friel, Chris Carmichael, Edmund R Burke PhD etc) is asking for trouble.

Following a plan intended for a full time pro or following something that generalises it in an attempt to make it fit everyone or make it easier to read is a recipe for disaster.

Specific training sessions intended to get you to a certain goal need to be written specifically for you and take into account things like family/work commitments, past experience, how much training time you have, age, gender etc. Following something from a generic “sporting interest” book is virtually guaranteed to get you either nowhere or more probably, overtrained.

The books are useful from the point of view of a general interest in coaching, seeing what the pros do and so on but they’re out of date quickly (eg most of the books talk about heart rate but everything now is geared more towards power) and the programmes detailed within them are too general to be of much use.

I assume that you are going out on regular chain gangs ?

Dales Rider, did you do yours after 3hrs of Sprint intervals on hills too or didn’t you read that far?

Crazy-legs – CC’s TCTP isn’t for pro’s. Its targetted at people like me. FWIW, I followed his Sportive plan ending in October last years and completed a Chilterns sportive solo (86m) in 6th. I am however, better suited to distance over power/speed.

It took me a couple or more seasons to hit my peak, and I was never that good!

1st 1-2 seasons are about learning IMO (and probably more – I gave up then) don’t expect any results apart from tri/TT/mtb.

This

Just in the immediacy based on the advice I was thinking perhaps then to miss the current series over the next three Saturdays and defer to a club ride each weekend to get some distance in my legs and practise some skills, use a SERRL event at the end of Feb as a warm up, then star proper with LVRC in mid march – thoughts on that and continuing my weekly turbo workouts – bearing in mind Chris Carmicheal thinks I should stop the program at this point and rest….?

..is what I’ve decided cynic-al. Lets face it, at my age and with only 2 years of road riding preceeded by 15 years of social MTB and at the age of 42 I’m no going to be that high up on the podium am I.

I’m going to keep on w 2/3 x Turbo and the club run to keep fit / the weight off.

completed a Chilterns sportive solo (86m) in 6th.

I’d keep that quiet, it’s a bit like claiming you “won” a fun run.

As above, started at 45. First season was learning the racecraft. Second season is competing. Aim for consistent top third placings and practice sprinting. Cat 4 in London is a lot more competitive than many realise. You won’t get out of Cat 4 without a sprint. Which makes any points I win so much more precious for this 69 kilo climber/domestique 😉

Kryton57 – Member

Dales Rider, did you do yours after 3hrs of Sprint intervals on hills too or didn’t you read that far?

No rode about 7 miles to warm up. At my age its a fine line between warming up and wearing out. Also its the same with the cross racing 50 minutes racing 6 minutes warm up. I’ll never make the podium, well maybe never, so its just about enjoyment. That said I nearly got 1st place a few weeks ago till they realised I was entered in the wrong Cat I had to go up into the “fast lads” class

You won’t get out of Cat 4 without a sprint.

Can see this being very frustrating for those with a reasonably decent engine but not much of a sprint (i.e. me!)

Cat 4 in London is a lot more competitive than many realise is full of people without much tactical awareness, who will chase down any breakaway whilst dragging the entire bunch with them. You won’t get out of Cat 4 without a sprint

FTFY

how do I continue to train without killing myself.

Get a coach, seriously. I’d be lost without mine – he has knowledge and experience that no internet / joe friel type plan can match, and he tweaks my plan depending on how i’m feeling too.

I can’t remember if i have said this before, but it apparently takes 3 seasons to be “good” at racing…i think its a combination of getting a good base, top end and experience. My 2nd season was a lot better than my first, 108 BC points / 25th 2nd cat in the UK but some way off my goal of getting my 1st cat as i had to take some time out of racing after getting Lymes disease, but i was able to race pros and full time riders by the end of the season without getting my arse handed to me on a plate. It takes time, patience, hard work (some nights i can’t decide if i want to be sick or cry or both on the turbo), consistency and knowing WHAT to do in training otherwise its just a waste of time. It doesn’t matter how fast you can ride solo for road racing, you just need the tactics, ability to suffer and instinct about where to ride in the bunch/moves to go with but this doesn’t come over night. Or be a great tester and ride of the front to win 🙂

Don’t underestimate base fitness – before i started racing i had no base but worked hard on getting one in 2012-13 and it made a massive difference to my racing and training.

I have altered my plans DG. I’ve ditched the next three weeks of cat 4 racing for weekend base work (for example, a relaxed Reliability ride on Sunday) and change my intervals/short rides to Tempo withs some short sprints / Russians thrown in.

I’m going to race as cat 4 at Gravesend late Feb as a measure and trial hanging with the group (in know my circuit PB) then back on the Threshold & sprints during the week with weekend club rides before LVRC starts on a March 16.

I’ve woken up to the fact that this is a learning year, and the best I can do is ride to improve my base, threshold and power in a manner that fits into my circumstances.

It could be of course, that I’m not designed to be a bike racer, not all of us are so ill just enjoy it at my own pace without stressing about my results, and if something noteworthy happens, that’d be nice 🙂

Which RT are you riding?

Old Portlians 100k.

Don’t know that one, hope the wind is calmer than it is today though because that was a bloody grim couple of hours.
Bedford or Hemel RT for me, which ever is wind free!

Ah this is North Kent (knock holt) south to Crowborough and back. The wind will be on our backs on the way back, and we’re riding as a club so well all be able to rest in from time to time.

Ok, so I’ve lined myself up a local crit in March….

What’s the etiquette on mechanical failures or punctures when riding in a bunch? Are there any calls that I need to know, aside from trying to exit the bunch safely?

Assuming I’ll even be with the bunch….

Ever the optimist eh!?

When I’ve flatted in a bunch I put my hand up and called ‘puncture’, then just eased off, people drift round you.

Thanks Njee, that’s what I thought would be sensible but just checking.

I don’t want to upset any of these serious cat 4 racers 😉

You’ll possibly be allowed a lap out for a mechanical, so jump on your spare bike (you do have a spare, right?) and the commissaire will feed you back in.

In reality I’m not sure how that works out, in my limited experience I only have to switch off for a second or two then I’m off the back with and struggling to close the gap!

Cat4 no more.[/url]

There’s a development race at Hillingdon this Saturday, if anyone fancies it.

Well done. Any full results about? Just watching with interest how some people are doing.

In reality I’m not sure how that works out, in my limited experience I only have to switch off for a second or two then I’m off the back with and struggling to close the gap!

You roll along out of the way as if you were being lapped. Then you leap on the back, not into the bunch.

Well done Tired. The most telling piece of your write up for me was “this was my 35th race”. I’ve a way to go, after having a horrible day in an LVRC race yesterday.

I went into it knowing nothing, and therefore not realising I’d be racing with veteran Elites. My interval training was going well, but last weekend I’d had a bed ridden throat virus, not riding until Wednesday and feeling light headed after a ride. I thought I could get away with it.

I warmed up for 20 mins pre race feeling conscious I was the only one doing so. Sat on the start, flag went down, clipped in and… BANG. A searing pain from my left quad. I rode for three laps in pain, got dropped on the second then before starting the 4th DNF’d to prevent further injury.

Having ridden for 11 minutes I felt pretty low driving home tbh, and in what is only my 2nd race need to leave it behind, get well and start again. 🙁

LVRC, yep lots of Elites/1st/2nd’s in that lot.

I spent all last summer racing E1234 at Hillingdon (Wednesday evenings after work). It’s a great place to learn how to handle a bike. Smooth fast riding on a predictable course. They don’t do crashing. I’m sure LVRC is no different. Every race was won by an Elite rider, but over the course of 12 races I went from back of the pack to mid/top third (and a BC point!). And aiming for top third in ANY race would be the limit of my expectations. Anything else is a bonus.

Keep at it. I warmed up because I was conscious of a three a man group putting the hammer down when I wasn’t warm the week before, and I just couldn’t bridge to them. I don’t normally bother, just spin around the circuit for a few laps.

The result at Brighton can be confusing. If you go off the front and rejoin the pack you win! No sprint required But if three go off the front, and rejoin the back, then there seems to be a sprint for position 123. I did better last week than I thought because I was overtaken in the sprint by someone contesting 123. Results are all listed on the BC website, but Brighton often take a while to decode the photo finish.

New bike time! (Propel Advanced frame) 😀

Nice one Tired.

I warmed up for 20 mins pre race feeling conscious I was the only one doing so

Ignore the others, put ipod on and zone out.

As for the rest, chin up. Racing is mentally tough, maybe even more so than physically tough. I had a bad race last Saturday, an attack went, i went to go with it, legs just didn’t work and my injuries complained a lot, I missed the break, spent 20mins on my own and then got caught with 3 laps to go!! I’m struggling with 7 months of injury and rehab which has reduced my power a lot, i have some dark days when i wonder if its all worth it, knowing i’m way off form and yet racing week in week out. Woke up the next day for a RR. Didn’t know if i could even face racing after such a bad performance the day before but went onto have a great race, slightly mucking up the sprint finish but got 4th, just pipped for 3rd by literally nothing. Good days, bad days, happens to everyone. Good thing about RR is there’s always another one next week. 🙂

Thanks Dg and Tired. The last few days go have put things into perspective. Turns out I was racing against Bob Downs! No chance!

Bob Downs! No chance!

Was that the Baines RR? Missed it this year. Rode it last year against Bob and in the snow, racing is potty.
How old are you then if you’re in Bobs age band.

Hey Kryton….just done my first crit this morning. Probably fitter than I’ve ever been, been on some long group rides, turbo sessions etc etc…..

And ping, straight off the back 2nd or 3rd lap. Got lapped twice (maybe three times?).

But it was a good experience and I’ll be doing a few more. A long long way to go to hang with the bunch but its a good excuse for “needing” more fancy kit 😉

Demoralized??? Not a chance!

Where was that mtbtomo?