How important is a competitive bike XC

some of us have. not all that slowly either

Are you going to walk the walk or just keep talking?

and the ego is back, must be alcohol fueled

I feel a swoon coming on.

Jamie would know what to do.

Mtbel, what track and when?

I had a chop at fort william from the white wallride through the lower woods to the motorway on a surly km with track wheels and vbrakes.
I didn’t race the dh enduro like that.
Jesse did race on a rigid spesh P2 alu frame on 8″ discs his lap times where around 11.30-14mins the same rider on the same bike with a suspension fork came 4th overall one year with around 6min lap times.

I have raced a macavalanche and some woodland riders dh races on the rigid vbrake monkey………. Discs would be much nicer 🙂 rock gardens are what one would call “exciting”

If serious about getting a podium then after skill, fittness and taking your current bike as far as you can, then it’s time to splash the cash for a dedicated race bike fit for purpose.
As i don’t worry about podiums i get to be weird and race a bike many wouldn’t 🙂

Just an after thought, having had a chop at and racing a wc dh track.

I could ride fort william all right on my km.
Trying to do a multi lap or single timed race run at full pace is a different matter, first thing to go would be vbrakes in favour of discs and more burly wheels 🙂

Ft William 1995
Les Gets (Mont Cherry WC track) ’96
Jesse knows the size, location and spacing of each and every one of those carefully placed rocks up there ;).. would have expected him to be a bit quicker than 11mins. On a one off race run (rather than multiple runs) I think he would be by quite a bit. do you know if he had to stop to shake out arm pump most runs?

Are you old enough to remember the Schwinn Cruiser Cups at the NPS? they were awesome to watch.. proper shit rigid bikes being hammered down National tracks by some seriously fast guys.

We’re probably compete against each other.

I hauled my 25lb steel 29er round the Brass Monkeys and at the end of the series I could possibly just have picked up one place (5th to 4th in grand vets on my carbon race bike but would never have been in any danger of hitting the podium).

So marginal losses (weight, suspension damper performance, wheel stiffness, multiple gear changes, tyre performance)

Yeah.. one of the things holding an XC race bike (and rider) back in rocks would be their fragile wheel and tyre choices.

Mavic 121s and 2 tyres on each rim (bead cut off the inner one) kept our bikes rollin through the roughest shit with low enough pressures for grip in the days before proper DH casings and soft compound rubber.

les gets 😆 wide open fire road at the top and a bunch of switch backs near the bottom, no huge rock gardens there, did a season there in 2004, probably the worst but the most used track out there, pretty sure i could steerer a rigid down there

You write like you have a lot of experience of bicycles and shit, Mtbel, and I have no doubt you have a lot to offer a forum like this. What I don’t get is the bullish approach to imparting your knowledge and experience and what appears to be a very condescending delivery quite obviously primed for a wind up. I kind of like its effect but it’s clearly getting a few backs up and I reckon unnecessarily so. If that’s your intention then it’s all good but if it’s not then… well… maybe you ain’t aware of it etc.

As you were…

Hard to compare old tracks against current tracks 🙂

Jesse did the multilap dh enduro on a rigid raider, so was around 12mins, i think his best on hardtail was 5.50mins i know steve larkin did around 6.38 on a dialled alpine in the sds a few years back, think my best was around 8.13mins in the dh enduro but i am old and unfit 🙂 i did try it on a big bike and with actually trying to slow the damn tank down i hit 7mins without trying (spesh sx trail)

I have nearly…….become king of the knights clunker, which involves a pootle down a big hill in somersetshire on very crap bikes with brake systems being more for show than actually working, my clunker racer might convert to a “lets try cx, what could go wrong…” as the brakes might be good for that until they clog with mud and jam the wheels anyway 🙂

I kind of like its effect but it’s clearly getting a few backs up and I reckon unnecessarily so.

doesn’t bother me, just comes across as an internet hero

ha ha ah ha ha…

Les Gets ’96 Grundig WC track mate.

The track lays on private land and you couldn’t really ride it after about 2000. By the sounds of it you’re not even aware of it’s existence.
there is no fire road and it was one of the longest tracks (a good 2min longer than Ft William) on the WC circuit. high speed and rough as ****/rutted to hell up top if dry.

A new £1200 29er will be more than adequate to ride and race on. I believe the only limitation will be your legs. A couple of years ago my race bike failed to arrive until mid May, that left me racing my wifes 2003 specialised rockhopper: the forks were (and are now even more) f#cked. But I did okay and beat several elite riders on superior bikes.

Gee and his fat bike – it weighs something like 23lb, has wheels which would be competitive on a 2k ‘normal’ mtb and he is amazingly fit. He’s fast on any bike.

I fundamentally disagree with most of what mtbel says.
I raced a mega a back in 1999 on a LTS DH, had a disk on the front and v brake on the rr. I struggled with the rear brake power throughout. Brakes evolved because riders demanded better brakes that were less affected by environmental conditions: more power and more control.

Last time i raced my wifes bike the forks barely moved, I was getting bounced all over the place. The race was a Banjo Rampage night race, not the bumpiest course and not the most technical. Every lap I lost time to riders I normally best and I base this on the bikes lack of suspension. Njee can probably confirm that although not the fastest, I am definately not the slowest rider through technical sections. When my new bike did arrive I was beating those who beat me at the rampage. Not very scientific but I felt it was significant.

Would a rigid bike with v-brakes be slower than a carbon bike with front/full suspension and disc brakes: Yes, significantly. It would give you less control, increase fatigue, increase the risk of punctures, reduce traction, etc. With races being won and lost by seconds, having make up ‘those few seconds’ you lost on every technical section become significant (and annoying).

My rule is: a course becomes more technical the faster you ride it. The perfect example being Sherwood Pines, technically not very difficult but when you’re blasting through the singletrack at warp speed it becomes very technical with little margin for error.

Everyone has there opinion of course. Think this is the longest post on this thread…

Sorry Teasel, what can I say. I’m Taurean..

also borderline Asbergers

Teasel, this forum has had a vacancy for a ‘thread-ruining alpha male with rad skillz from back in the day’ ever since GW and his rugged no-nonsense, no-gloves and no-helmet shtick left us a couple of years ago.

What we seem to have here is his long overdue ‘replacement’. 😀 😀 😀

also borderline Asbergers

That’s why I mentioned the awareness thing. But in your case, as you were…

🙂

What we seem to have here is his long overdue ‘replacement’.

I kinda liked GW. I know that’s not the popular viewpoint but hell, if a man can’t be honest once in a while WTF is there…

ha ha ah ha ha…

Les Gets ’96 Grundig WC track mate.

1996 mate, look at what bike tech was like then, of course you rode rigid, it was probably better than the suspension available, you had what DHO’s at best, bombers late 96?

you full on dh bike back then, was probably worse than a current wc xc bike, and the courses tech wise not dissimilar

rose tinted spectacles at play big time

Teasel, when i said “replacement”, i meant like when Tommy the Green power ranger was replaced by, errr, Tommy the white ranger. 😀

I’ve been reading this one. Sold my mtb a few weeks ago, leaving me with “just” road bikes and a couple that might pass muster for cross bikes.

Now I quite fancy an XC hardtail 29er and a few xc races this summer….

i meant like when Tommy the Green power ranger was replaced by, errr, Tommy the white ranger.

I have no idea what the **** most of that sentence means but I did understand the meaning of “replacement” as used in the first instance.

I have no idea what the **** most of that sentence means but I did understand the meaning of “replacement” as used in the first instance.

😆

I can indeed confirm Ernie’s ability to ride rather rapidly down hills!

The thing seems to be that mtbel is talking about what’s ‘necessary’ to ride these courses. That’s a moot point, because you don’t win a race by simply riding it all. So yes, rigid, v-brake equipped bikes can of course finish the race, but it’s a colossal handicap, which was more the answer. A £1200 29er with discs will not be anything like as much of a handicap, as many have said. Diminishing returns and that. all the stuff about 20 year old DH courses is irrelevant and they’re shit examples, you’re a poor man’s GW. Mtbel – which was the last national XC or DH race you competed in?

Just back form a XC marathon event, the rock gardens were not pre placed but natural and tough going, the other descents were blown out & rutted the climbs were relentless and it was getting hot.
The winners were all on top end £5k XC 29r’s weighing in at 10kg max. In the older cats there was a lot more variety with heavier, older machines with 26/650b wheels too/ For most of the field the bike wasn’t the issue, training, genetics and skill played more of a part.

I was faster this year as I was a bit fitter, a bit more switched on, the temp was lower and I was on my 100mm 29r as opposed to my 26″ 140/160mm fun bike.

Ooo, what race did you do, mikewsmith? Wasn’t the Lanzarote one was it?

Having a go at the March 1st Southern XC, using the bike as is.

A CX bike really would be great for Black Park, it won’t be a hindrance there!

You can’t use CX can you?
Anyway just going to have a go, get the legs turning. Racing road the weekend after. Still early for me.

bit late back but this one crispycross
http://www.thecrankypenguin.com.au/
Tasmania