How big a price will Clegg have paid for his seat at the top table?

He has finishad the lib dems as apolitical force by supporting this tory government

I really hope that’s not as true as once was TJ – people’s perception of a party seems much more linked to the leader (& their close mates) than it used to be. Dump Clegg and a couple of others and start again – maybe. I’d suspect it’s easy to portray Clegg in future as always having been a closet tory to further push this trick.

I’ve no real love for them as a party but things are too bi-partisan already.

Whoever ran the “YES” campaign seems to have made a pig’s ear of explaining AV and what the benefits would be. That’s the sad bit. Unless something unbelievable happened last night with the voting, we’ve missed out on a great chance to shovel in electoral reform.

I do wonder though, would we be ANY better off from that standpoint if LD hadn’t cuddled up with the tories ? (a vote wouldn’t have been lost, but the issue proably wouldn’t have come up to any real extent IMO – given that Labour rejected the request from LibDems to bring it in)

Loving the way the Libs are getting all bent out of shape about Tory policy when it comes to AV but are perfectly happy to go along with anything else.

Titty Lips all round

Libs … are perfectly happy to go along with anything else

We’re livid about every stinking compromise, esp. tuition fees. But it’s the nature of attempting a stable coalition government. We believe and have the nerve to stick to that principle, even if we despise our Tory bedfellows.

It’s the nature of coalition govt.s to do as you’re told in order to get half a compromise on one issue ?

I thought the nature of a coalition govt. was that a range of views get to be represented and that a rabidly ideological govt. can be tempered.

From the BBC Vote2011 site:

😆

A crumb of comfort for Nick Clegg. According to BBC polling expert David Cowling, if these local results were repeated on a national level – and first-past-the-post was retained – the Lib Dem leader would still keep his seat. His colleagues in Cambridge, Manchester Withington and Bradford East wouldn’t be so lucky though.

Oh teh ironing.

Not a single lib dem who ran got a seat in Manchester. 😆

Looks like the Lib-Dems have been nuked from outer-space

That’ll learn them for getting into bed with the nasty party

While I’m glad that they’re getting their comeuppance, I hope that people don’t lose sight that this is a Tory govt. and that the Libs aren’t the party that need removing next time around.

We’re livid about every stinking compromise, esp. tuition fees. But it’s the nature of attempting a stable coalition government. We believe and have the nerve to stick to that principle, even if we despise our Tory bedfellows.

looks like the electorate disagree and that you should stand up for what you believe in rather than allow the biggest party [ with which you disagreed on the big issues especially the economy] to do what they said and the opposite of what you said you would do.
Yes there must be some compromise but what Clegg did was capitualte on his principles in order to achieve stable government and to get an AV vote. This seems to have spectacularily backfired and is hardly surprising.
Whatever your views on politicians you want them to stand up for and refelct the platform they stood on or else there is little point voting for them if they will “compromise” over their beliefs to form a government.

but the issue proably wouldn’t have come up to any real extent IMO – given that Labour rejected the request from LibDems to bring it in

Not sure why you have bough that tbh as the Labour manifesto 2010 said

To ensure that every MP is supported by the majority of their constituents voting at each election, we will hold a referendum on introducing the Alternative Vote for elections to the House of Commons.

You may note how the labour leader campaigned and how Dave campaigned to see which side supported AV- Clegg has fecked up big time.

I’m really disappointed by the apparent failure of AV. Sure it wasn’t the perfect system by any means but a step in the right direction. Now we are condemned to the same old shite indefinitely.

Next general election – I know who I don’t want to vote for (Labour, Tory or Lib Dem), so who do I vote for?

**** it, I’m moving to Scotland.

It feels this morning that the annoyed owner of the dug-up garden has kicked the dog and thanked the owner.

[stolen from elsewhere]

I thought the nature of a coalition govt. was that a range of views get to be represented and that a rabidly ideological govt. can be tempered.

Does this need to be explained with biscuits?

It’s not a coalition of equal partners though is it?

An awful lot of people have already been taken out of the tax system by raising the tax threshold for basic income tax. By the end of the Parliament it will be a lot more as one of the concessions the Lib Dems won in the coalition agreement was to raise the basic income tax threshold to £10,000 by the end of the Parliament.

That wasn’t something the Tories would have done by themselves and it wouldn’t have happened under a minority Tory Govt.

While I’m glad that they’re getting their comeuppance, I hope that people don’t lose sight that this is a Tory govt. and that the Libs aren’t the party that need removing next time around.

Yep, the Tory vote is holding up reasonably well. Which exposes as a complete lie, the claim by the LibDems that they are only getting hammered for carrying out unpopular but necessary policies. They are getting hammered for being liars and untrustworthy. Everyone expects Tories to behave like Tories.

An awful lot of people have already been taken out of the tax system by raising the tax threshold for basic income tax.

And then had all the gains they would have made snatched away again by the removal of tax credits.

By the end of the Parliament it will be a lot more as one of the concessions the Lib Dems won in the coalition agreement was to raise the basic income tax threshold to £10,000 by the end of the Parliament.

I’ll believe it when I see it.

I’ve got to agree with TJ – the Libs are toast. Why would anyone vote for a party who’s policies are so ‘fluid’ depending on how close to the top table they are?
Libs should have held firm after the election and supported a minority conservative government, instead they have been woefully naieve and been out manouvered by the conservatives at every opportunity.

It’s not a coalition of equal partners though is it

he did indeed negotiate specatacularily baddly another reason to dislike him. Without the accord of the lib dems do you think a minority Tory govt would have got many of its proposals through the house? It woould seem difficult considering th elib dems disapproved on say the scale and size of cuts and pretty much every other big issue with them Tories as did Labour.
This coalition has given a more Tory govt than a minority Tory govt could achieve when what it should have done is provide a more stable govt than a minority Tory one and a more Lib dem one than a minority Tory one. An utter fail on every conceivable level IMHO.

the lib dem leadership/yes campaign certainly dropped the ball on av, once again showing naivete in the grown ups politics (in light of which millibands inability to corall his party doomed av )
I don’t for a minute think the coalition will fall over this clegg will cling to power for as long as he can
because he knows his party has lost the vote of those that have no confidence in the other 2
Now that our elections are about televised leadership debates, spin doctors and tabloid hacks directing the (pr) campaigns it is all about personality of the leader.
Clegg got into bed with Cameron far too easily but when they both share the same millionaire public school upbringing not to mention neocon capitalism its not that surprising

While I’m glad that they’re getting their comeuppance, I hope that people don’t lose sight that this is a Tory govt. and that the Libs aren’t the party that need removing next time around.

I disagree wholeheartedly. The Tories had no mandate to enforce their policies as they did not get a majority, the Lib Dems have facilitated their policies being applied for the AV vote and a couple of other small token gestures. Basically 30 pieces of silver.
When people voted Lib Dem they voted for their manifesto which has been shat on from a great height by this coalition and now so have the Lib Dems.

An utter fail on every conceivable level IMHO.

Yup. eg How they could stand idly by while the Tories try to implement their insane (and not in the manifesto or coalition agreement) NHS plans is beyond me.

The Yes campaign has been piss-poor though – for instance – type ‘yes to av’ into google and get to the yestofairervotes.org site. Their site, including a page headed ‘Why Vote Yes’, contains not one single reason why you should vote yes, just a linked video with a war veteran apparently explaining, that most people won’t bother watching. 🙄

I don’t know why folk are saying a minority conservative government would not have worked – the SNP minority government has in Holyrood

Holyrood is a quite different place to Westminster tho, you have to admit.

Even the SNP are probably now thinking PR doesn’t look like a great idea as they’ve have a massive majority on first past the post!

All other compromises apart, the one that has done for Nick Clegg is the one on electoral reform. If you are going to sell your soul to the devil the minimum requirement from the deal is to get a good shag, not to get royally shagged.

AV = shagged.

Not sure why you have bough that tbh as the Labour manifesto 2010 said
To ensure that every MP is supported by the majority of their constituents voting at each election, we will hold a referendum on introducing the Alternative Vote for elections to the House of Commons.

😳 – it’s a lack of thinking thing

I do think that the only good thing to come out of this round of voting is the SNP victory in Scotland, hopefully they will continue to push progressive policies up there and eventually people down here will cotton on that we don’t have to put up with the destructive knockabout of Labour/Tory/Labour/Tory…. etc. forever and do something about it.

Ho hum. Back to the real world of sanding floors.

Good man no shame in being worng only in not admitting it which seems the STW way.

Holyrood is a quite different place to Westminster tho, you have to admit

not really sure what you mean unless you mean the lack of Tories to ruin it 😉
Still shows that a minority [conservative] govt is a viable[and given the result and the Lib Dem platform a fairer]option – though it would not have got the AV vote.
As BB notes

If you are going to sell your soul to the devil the minimum requirement from the deal is to get a good shag, not to get royally shagged.

Which sums up the whole sordid affair IMHO

Back to my OP.

Lib Dems smashed out of sight losing all of the seats contested yesterday.

This is a long game. The Lib Dems can take all the vitriol now and start to plan their comeback for when it matters.

A bit like Obama. Capture Bin Laden and have a long dirty-linen-washing trial – result: lose re-election.
Go in and kill Bin Laden – result: win re-election.

The only person Clegg can kill to improve his standing with the british people will be himself.

Struggling with your analogy there… who does Clegg need to kill?

How have today’s politics threads progressed so far whilst still being so reasonable, and without degenerating into flames?

Oh wait – TJ’s at work, isn’t he?

so people have had no easy victim to have a go at?

Strangely enough, on our local council the Lib Dems have gained seats (is that unique? 😯 ). That was at the expense of the Tories though and Tories still have overall control.

Struggling with your analogy there… who does Clegg need to kill?

Tony Blair?

who does Clegg need to kill

Cameron, Osbourne, Gove?

Would get my vote back.

Why punished LD when they have done nothing wrong? You mean LD has broken their promises? So do you think LD should dictate their terms to the Tories when they join the coalition govt? LOL!

So Labour has made the country prosper? LOL!

At least Cameron is honest about cutting back to bare bones to make you work like slave. What? You want free meal?

😆

No one is punishing the LDs they just lost the left middle vote by getting in to bed with the right.

tinribz – Member

No one is punishing the LDs they just lost the left middle vote by getting in to bed with the right.

So LDs voters are the secret labour supporters … 😆

So LDs voters are the secret labour supporters

Lab +769
Lib – 658

Think about it 🙄

Why punished LD when they have done nothing wrong? You mean LD has broken their promises?

Is breaking your promises something you encourage in people or just in politicians?

So do you think LD should dictate their terms to the Tories when they join the coalition govt? LOL!

Dont think anyone has said that but they should not give the tories the votes to enable them to do the exact opposite of what the Lib Dems said they would do if they were in power. Compromise or selling out …looks like the public have concluded the later and it will be very difficult for them to win back trust IMHO
It also leaves them very weak in the coalition as they have no mandate for anything after that result and they dod not even get AV – now the electorate has finished kicking Clegg his own party and dave will take over

Is breaking your promises something you encourage in people or just in politicians?

What about compromising?

The stupid political system demands politicians make promises they can’t necessarily keep.

Real practical every day life requires compromises. Banging on about broken promises is far from useful imo.