Help! Physiology dilemma on a Turbo…

A kind of weirdness just happened. Literally overnight, on my second of back to back Turbo sessions, I’ve just performed some over-unders at 20 BPM lower than normal.. in HR terms I’ve ended up working out in the Aerobic zone rather than Threshold.

I found the work out ridiculously easy, so much so I jumped off after 10 minutes to check tyre pressure, turbo setup, gearing, resistance etc. Nope, no changes. Then 5 mins more and I cranked up the session to 105% effort, and still it felt easier than it should have.

I have been finding riding in general tough over the last month or so, but is it really possible to get the sudden leap in performance, drop in HR overnight?

Frankly its quite scary!

Changed your butcher?

Few things can cause HR to vary between workouts, mostly down to things like tiredness, recovery, heat. Not really a great indicator of effort but it can be an useful indicator of how things are going. I tend to find if I can’t get my HR up to usual levels it’s usually an indicator of tiredness. How does your resting HR compare to previous days?

Edit… how are you measuring effort? PM? Have you calibrated it properly?

Double edit… are you using TrainerRoad and virtual power? You got the right trainer and resistance setting selected? I’d be sceptical that something wasn’t set up properly with the big change in PE.

I have been finding riding in general tough over the last month or so

Have you been ill?

I am using trainer road yes mr blobby.

I felt the same – I got on the bike and it all felt too easy, I literally checked everything – trainer, bike, FTP settings weight, pressures….

I’m now thinking that before something was wrong with the bike because I’ve been struggling for a month coincidentally after my FTP had gone up. I asked a few questions and concluded I’d had a performance drop due to tiredness it was literally a struggle to get started. My warmup was at 120bpm, now it’s 105. Despite all that was improving weekly on my mtg series races. I lowers my FTP by 5% manually.

But I would have noticed if something was rubbing. Perhaps the trainer roller was resisting? Could the hub or BB have caused resistance? And therefore have I been banging away for a month against some extra resistance and now accidentally feeling stronger as a result?

Confused!

Edit : wyinkin- yes I’ve had colds – recovering from one now actually. But even if I was carrying a virus would it make a difference overnight.

Edit again: I did start taking a multivitamin a week ago, hmm…

But even if I was carrying a virus would it make a difference overnight.

Potentially.

Could be that? I took the multivitamin because I thought I’d overtrained. Then thought, no that can’t be right, and I have been anaemic before so perhaps it’s a lack of iron….

After a week of iron top up could this explain the performance increase? Resting hr is consistent btw, 48bpm.

Have you had the bike off the trainer between sessions?
I found it so infuriating trying to ensure everything was consistent between sessions that I used this as an excuse to buy a Powertap. Problem solved.
Try an ftp test tomorrow, see if there’s been any change.

Vinny, no. Tonight I just jumped on and all was easier.

I won’t try one tomorrow as it’d be my third turbo in 3 days so won’t be accurate as I’ll be tired. Maybe in a couple of days.

I found it so infuriating trying to ensure everything was consistent between sessions that I used this as an excuse to buy a Powertap. Problem solved.

This ^^^.

I’m not going to rush out and spend £500 over 1 nights results, especially as I’d mentioned, nothing mechanical had changed.

I’m not going to rush out and spend £500 over 1 nights results

That’s not really showing the STW spirit, you know.

I appreciate that www. Obviously something mentalist is going on as well seeing as I failed to leap to n+1 immediately.

It’s confirmed.

According to my Trainerroad results, all of my HR zones are a step lower than my power zones. Eg I’ve done 18 mins at Threshold (power) but 18 mins at sweet spot (HR), 12 mins of vo2 max (power) but 12 mins of Threshold (hr).

Aaaargh.

Eh? Confirmed by what?

I reckon if your PE and HR is that much lower than it was last week for the same reported power then, unless you were rather ill/overtrained, it’s probably something mechanical. Could even be the cable that sets the turbo resistance stretching meaning it’s slipped into a lower setting than the one it appears to be set to (I’ve had this happen.) Anything changed wrt cooling? (New fan? Topless?)

I switch between two bikes on the turbo and I thought I’d just use virtual power for one of them to save having to swap the PT wheel over. I gave up on that pretty quickly and now swap the wheel over. That’s become a faff now so I’ve bit the bullet and just ordered a P2M PM for the TT bike. It is a lot of cash but is worth it IMO if you are serious about training to power.

Ah. topless you say. So I’ve worked out several things whilst stuck in the car.

Yes, last night was a topless ‘cept bibs workout on the patio and despite the sun it was quite breezy – last 2 sessions have been in the shed no breeze. Yes despite the fact I’m still recovering from a cold, the last month of bike riding has been a challenge for me, and I really did think I’d overtrained and knocked it off a bit last week – an extra days rest and a z2 ride instead of a turbo session. I also discovered I’d performed my FTP test one resistance level up from where it’s set now – although I had changed the TR setting during my “dip” to reflect that.

I think now if I put that resistance level back I’d be ok, and perhaps by coincidence I’ve come out of the dip in form that I had cause by over training or a virus or both maybe. Or maybe by initially upping my FTP by 5% AND increasing my Turbo resistance at the same time just bollocksed me.

Just seems he’l of a difference in the space of a day to be putting out equivalent power 20bpm less than yesterday.

Anyway now I’ve written it down there are so many variables it all seems a bit irrelevant.

tailwind?

tailwind?

🙂 Cooling can make a massive difference on the turbo.

I also discovered I’d performed my FTP test one resistance level up from where it’s set now – although I had changed the TR setting during my “dip” to reflect that.

You may find that the virtual power reading varies considerably for a given effort at different trainer resistance settings. They are all just approximations, usually I think based on data supplied by users based on their power meter readings for various mph and resistance setting combinations. If I was using virtual power I’d just leave it in one resistance setting and base everything on that to keep things as consistent as possible.

Yep, I normally would do the same although whilst my FTP was going up I was running out of gears.

you’ve been using up the oxygen in the shed….

there are so many variables it all seems a bit irrelevant.

This.

Shouldn’t you be tapering for 24:12?

Sorry for the delay in replying, Kryton – I saw this topic earlier but figured it was a turbo set up question rather than a heart physiology one. I reckon the cooling effect is the main contributor here. I noticed a massive difference in HR on the turbo between the depths of winter and summer training sessions. I guess it’s also why my HR is lower on the real bike than the turbo when RPE is the same (although I can only achieve my max HR outside on the real bike – can only get to within 5bpm of it on the turbo. Not sure why this is.).

I don’t want to overstate my qualifications here – I’m not a sports physiologist by any stretch. But my gut feeling is that it would be unusual to have a physiology change great enough to give you a 20bpm difference in HR for the same RPE in training sessions that were so close together. I think a change in turbo set up (plus small physiological differences) probably explains this.

adsh – Member
Shouldn’t you be tapering for 24:12?

Nope. 24/12 is a B category training race in prep for the real A event on 10th Aug. 24hrs of intervals and over unders… 🙂 I may have an extra day off the bike before and after the 24-12 weekend though.

Cheers legalam. I’ve studied my data and turbo setup and can’t work out what caused it. My only thought now is as mentioned above – I set my resistance to “3” for the FTP test, struggles in the next work (sick), so revered it to “2”. I wondering that the cable never moved back. In carrying the bike turbo outside perhaps the vibration when placing the whole setup on the patio caused it to spring back last night.

What’s on the 10th?

The ridelondon100. I’m smashing pb’s for charity.

Significantly lower HR at the same power means RPE is through the roof for me every time. If the effort is anywhere near threshold the I normally just have to give up.
My heart rate s always a bit lower (few bpm) on the turbo, for the same (true) power, which I guess is because less other muscles are involved than on the road as you don’t have to steer, balance etc. on the turbo.

As a side note, the kurt kinetic is an amazingly consistent turbo if you warm up for ten mins and keep pressure and tyres, and turn of the resistance knob (marked with a bit of tape) the same. I have checked it against 2 power meters over 100s or rides and it is bang on for efforts of more than a few minutes.

Feels inadequate technology/complexity of training…..

Significantly lower HR at the same power means RPE is through the roof for me every time. If the effort is anywhere near threshold the I normally just have to give up.

Usually the case for me too. High RPE and low HR for a given effort usually a good sign to abandon and rest.

I have checked it against 2 power meters over 100s or rides and it is bang on for efforts of more than a few minutes.

Some are meant to be a lot more consistent than others. I think TR actually recommend the Kurt Kinetic. Interesting point about longer intervals. One of the good things about a PM though is that it better captures the efforts required for shorter intervals. If you just calculate from wheel speed then you miss the big changes of power during acceleration/deceleration that can make up much of a shorter interval.

Ah well, back in the real worlds nothing has changed so I’m still alive & ok.

Its good that this year I’m 20w stronger than earlier this year. Annoyed with the traffic today, else I’d be posting a 33kmh ride, damn.

Today

April this year

Traffic on a Turbo ?

Traffic on a Turbo ?

Ah well, back in the real worlds nothing has changed so I’m still alive & ok.

Its good that this year I’m 20w stronger than earlier this year. Annoyed with the traffic today, else I’d be posting a 33kmh ride, damn.

Today

April this year

Someone seems to have flattened the roads over the last few months!

vinnyeh – Member

Someone seems to have flattened the roads over the last few months!

Well, that’s strava/garmin for you…

Re-surfacing 🙂