Have we done stealing from Auschwitz yet?

I visited Auschwitz last month…I’m interested in history, in particular the WW2 and have read about it in a few books.

If you understand the history and the suffering there, touring the place is a sombre experience – reading about what happened is shocking, but seeing the scale of the place in person brings it home.

There was a chap with a flag of Israel crying as he walked past.

When I was there, there were many school parties…groups of kids wondering about laughing and messing about, taking selfies etc.

I don’t think they can relate to what they’re seeing…I wonder if they visit the place, then learn about what happened. So to them it’s just a school trip/holiday.

is disappointing to find so much hateful prejudice on a thread about Auschwitz.

Thats funny! What have I missed?

It’s all here.

Sorry, still don’t get it. I went to a state school, my son didn’t. How does it work for me?

If doesnt, you went to a state school.

The disconnection of a large chunk of today’s youth from events more than half a century ago is inevitable, sadly, despite the best efforts of the older generations.

Background or privilege has nothing to do with it. I’m sure lots of kids who are taken around Auschwitz will be glued to their phones and taking selfies.

Kids do daft stuff, all this ‘burn them and excommunicate their families’ stuff is nonsense. I reckon this’ll have been a pretty unnerving experience, being arrested in a foreign country etc. and they’ll come out the back of it humbled and fully informed of both the history and the seriousness of their actions. You lot getting all frothed about it is as unedifying as it is unnecessary.

That. 100% that.

Also, lets not forget, The most important element to this (the theft aside for just a second, which in itseft is primary and totally abhorrent act) and thats….

The..

Network.

Yup, the network all Public Schools work in. The Families they link up with, the social engineering that goes on, the extra classes they are forced into/taken too.. Think of all the the noses that will bent right out of shape and the sheer collapse of the Kids social/come work channel.

Erm, you’re breaking the first and second rules of The Network.

– Burchill (Perse alumni) (not a thief)

Not going to look good on the CV is it.

I imagine they will have the wit to leave it off.

Sure I am there ^^ 😆

But I still can’t see past the gravity of the act in the place of the act.

And, whilst Kids will do stupid things etc. etc. as a defense is almost saying/sending out a message that the theft is ok. I find that really hard to comprehend, sorry. Clearly I’m in the minority. Also, surely somebody in supervision gave a synopsis of the Place, the Area and What Went On There.. with all that in mind I still find it totally difficult to understand why they undertook the act of theft from what is a monumental piece of sad human history.

But, like I said, I stand by it they will for the foreseeable regret this and their families too.

Don’t care what you lot think, clearly I’m of a very small minority here.

😀

You may be able to leave it off but like I said, most companies do background checks on stuff like Criminal convictions etc. etc. etc. Theft, prety bad that. And well certainly in the Industry I’m in they do checks and quite right too, and I guess they would have been channeled into some role or other in the same/similar Industry.

And, whilst Kids will do stupid things etc. etc. as a defense is almost saying/sending out a message that the theft is ok

No it isn’t. They’ll be punished and they’ll have a criminal record, but it won’t last forever, it’ll expire once served (I’m assuming a fair bit around polish justice system here). They don’t need to be vilified for eternity is the point.

@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It’s about passing on life skills. It’s like us expecting Steve Pete’s kids will be better bike riders than ours, FWIW Peaty’s dad was a very handy trials bike rider.

I have taken trips of school children to Ypres and other significant sites. I think you under estimate the ability of teenagers to be moved! My students were from a tough area of west London and if you had looked at them as we walked past I have no doubt you would have made lots of assumptions about them.

We took them to the trenches and they didn’t really understand what they were seeing, then we took them to one of the big war cemeteries and almost to a child they were shocked and appalled! They went from their usual rowdy selves to being very quiet, reflective and we were dealing with lots of tears from them. They also got very wound up when students from another school were being in their eyes disrespectful.

I think teenagers have a far greater capacity than adults to express their emotions and respond in a more honest way to what they see. I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items! Please don’t excuse the actions of these two idiots by saying what do you expect they are teenagers, you are doing most teenagers a massive disservice!

@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It’s about passing on life skills. It’s like us expecting Steve Pete’s kids will be better bike riders than ours, FWIW Peaty’s dad was a very handy trials bike rider.

To what extent? So a better education makes no difference?

I don’t quite get why there’s an assumption that these kids are disrespecting the dead… I wouldn’t do it, but what about “This is an experience I will never forget, this is a token of it”

When I first heard the headlines I thought they’d taken things directly from an exhibit; picking stuff off the ground isn’t the same, I think they could easily have thought they were just discarded.

They’re idiots but no reason to assume it goes further than that imo. They could be dreadful human beings, equally.

jambalaya – Member

@aa it makes total sense that the kids of economically successful parents are themselves more likely to be economically successful. It’s about passing on life skills.

And definitely nothing to do with the massive difference in opportunity.

You lot getting all frothed about it is as unedifying as it is unnecessary.

Indeed. I was initially going to comment that the thread seems like cheap titilation.

But I got wound up by the OP’s daft assumption about posh schoolkids.

Now I feel like a Daily Mail reader.

🙁

I have taken trips of school children to Ypres and other significant sites. I think you under estimate the ability of teenagers to be moved! My students were from a tough area of west London and if you had looked at them as we walked past I have no doubt you would have made lots of assumptions about them.

We took them to the trenches and they didn’t really understand what they were seeing, then we took them to one of the big war cemeteries and almost to a child they were shocked and appalled! They went from their usual rowdy selves to being very quiet, reflective and we were dealing with lots of tears from them. They also got very wound up when students from another school were being in their eyes disrespectful.

I think teenagers have a far greater capacity than adults to express their emotions and respond in a more honest way to what they see. I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items! Please don’t excuse the actions of these two idiots by saying what do you expect they are teenagers, you are doing most teenagers a massive disservice!

I think that’s a positive reflection on you as their teacher. Perhaps their teachers need to decide whether they adequately prepared their charges for the visit.

What, all that extra work?!?

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/school-trip-to-cost-1650-quids-per-child/page/2

Like Burchill I am an Old Persian, and first I heard was the letter I got from the headmaster. The contents of that letter were very much at odds with the report in the Guardian, making it seem much smaller than the newspaper reports. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle as usual.

Secondly I would point out that although £15k sounds a lot, the actual fees are under £14k a year, and compare that to Eaton which is just under £12k per term, and there are means tested bursaries to reduce the fees for those who cant afford it, so some of you should perhaps put your prejudices away? (I know Eaton is boarding and Perse is a day school but there is quite a difference in fees)

For balance I was there for 3 years and hated the place, but we did go to Czech Republic and a concentration camp on a rugby tour, and no one stole anything.

We need a bump to this thread 😆

there are means tested bursaries to reduce the fees for those who cant afford it,

Thats great, so can anyone go?

If you pass the academic requirements, that is the idea

I know for certain that if I had taken that group to a concentration camp they would not have stolen any items!

I think you’ll find that’s the whole point ….. it’s not the behaviour which you would expect.

Which is why the Polish authorities have punished them, and why they can almost certainly expect more punishment when they get home.

And also why it’s become a news story.

Anyone who passes? Whats the test?

Anyone who passes? Whats the test?

The school’s own entrance exams. I scraped in via the waiting list..

Whats the test?

Do you have the right accent, do your parents have the right accents, did you turn up in the right type of car?

Normal stuff.

Yes dear, well done…

I’s not quite like that that but your background does indeed form part of the selection process.

It’s why you see so many 7-8-9yr olds being escorted around Eton nearly every day of the week, in preparation, in expectation, in getting your family name into the “right” places, channels open up for you easily then.

You do understand the concept of social engineering, well I expect you all do.
Hence my comments about Networking and streamlining the social/education path some kids have/have always had.

It’s why Cameron is where he is, but you know that.

as cougar mentioned somewhere up there ^^^

the items in question were ‘stolen’ from the ground.

kids picking stuff up off the ground is not a crime. Inappropriate perhaps, given the circumstances, but understandable (imho).

anagallis_arvensis – Member
So a better education makes no difference?

i read something somewhere that we could make reasonably accurate GCSE predictions based on the make of the parents car.

Don’t know about Car model, but Parents income correlates well, here is a graph of US data:

The odd correlation between SES and achievement: why haven’t more critical questions been asked? A call to action

But Footflaps, that is Eton, not The Perse…the schools are not aimed at the same market. The Perse doesn’t have the draw of Eton and due to a lack of boarding its catchment is pretty limited to Cambridge.

Still, carry with your generalisations…

Lots of things correlate. Correlation does not + causation.

Personally I think they were just kids and probably now regret what they did.

But lets not let that get in the way of a bit of inverse snobbery for those with a chip on their shoulder, eh?

Seventeen is easily old enough to understand the significance of their actions. They probably did it for kicks directly understanding what the ‘kick’ was caused by. Idiots.

But Footflaps, that is Eton, not The Perse..

You’ve lost me, I don’t ever recall mentioning Eton….

Sorry, that was Bikebouy, not you, too late for a sneaky edit!!

kids picking stuff up off the ground is not a crime. Inappropriate perhaps, given the circumstances, but understandable (imho).

There are prominent signs on entry that removing anything from the camp is a crime.

then that’s different. they were told.