Have we done Jimmy

I guess that as long as the accusers aren’t being paid a fee, Esther is so outraged that she’s working for free and ITV hand over the dossier of evidence to the police then we can expect some sort of justice. Otherwise, it’s just folk lining their pockets at the expense of a dead man.

FWIW, I’m not being paid for my opinion either.

yes it is unfortunate very very convenient indeed he is dead and he cannot answer back and that should raise suspsicion set the alarm bells ringing from a few hundred miles away

Or is 8pm on ITV now the prime place to be putting our world weary cynicism to one side, and just accepting what we’re being told

Its not ideal, its not a trial but that does not make it true or false

Well… Esthers statement is pretty clear….

Rantzen said the testimony given by the women offers concrete evidence the allegations against Saville were true: “What these women say is so matter of fact, they corroborate each other. The style of the abuse and the attack on them was consistent one with each other.

“I’m afraid the jury isn’t out any more and what upsets me so much is that not one of these children could ask for help. The abuse of power was as great as the sexual abuse.”

Concrete ‘evidence’? the ‘jury’ isn’t out any more?

Oh, the ironing 🙄

Fish Fiddler

I’m a bit disappointed that you didn’t use “fish fingerer”.
Or is that too much?

It’s all codswallop.

Was it an all girls school? Daily Mail reports he had girls sent up and he’d select from these. The writer worded it spot on for maximum character assination.

Sir Philip of Schofield is casting doubt on the logistics of it all on the BBC website.

I’m a bit disappointed that you didn’t use “fish fingerer”.
Or is that too much?

have you ever seen skate for sale ?

you will know why certain parts are removed

Schofields just trying to stop the Gordon the Gopher beastiality rumours coming out

Trial by ITV…..the same people that bring you Peter Andre ‘My Life’.

Classic.

Sir Philip of Schofield is casting doubt on the logistics of it all on the BBC website.

Schofield vs Rantzen – who to believe? They’re both such intellectual/moral heavyweights.

SIR Philip Schofield?!

This must have done to protect his “Argos” style joolri
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-15717221

rudebwoy – Member
I’m a bit disappointed that you didn’t use “fish fingerer”.
Or is that too much?
have you ever seen skate for sale ?

you will know why certain parts are removed

We once had a guy apply for a job as a skate(board) rep, who had been traumatised by ‘discovering’ a workmate sexually abusing a skate.

Couldn’t fail to hire him with that qualification.

Difficult one, this.

On the one hand, he’s an easy target. Eccentric old goat, liked the company of children, must be a nonce. See also, Michael Jackson. The fact that no-one came out to ‘tell their story’ till after his death rings massive alarm bells for me. I think we can dismiss ‘there were always stories’ for reasons I’ve just mentioned; of course there’s stories, he’s the sort of character that attracts them, and nothing breeds rumours like other rumours.

However, on the other hand, if the equine-dentured That’s Life presenter is to be believed, there are a number of corroborating stories from what are presumably unrelated people. In comparison to MJ, there’s also little motive that I can see for unfounded character assassination other than five minutes of fame; apart from selling stories to the gutter press, there isn’t a huge vein of gold to be tapped like there was in the MJ case. So it’s harder to see what people would hope to gain by making up stories now.

So I think I’m undecided on this one. I think it’s a massive shame that this is all coming out now after his death, where a) he can’t defend himself and b) he can’t stand trial if it turns out that he was guilty. That doesn’t sit well with me at all.

Bit harsh to compare him with MJ at this stage I reckon, as MJ was clearly a child abuser. It’s nowhere near that certain with old Jimmy yet.

If only there had been any other cases exposed recently of trial by media getting the facts wrong? Maybe one where people had unfounded, unproven accusations made against them then splashed all over the popular media, clearly stating it as THE TRUTH

Or to put it differently

If only there had been other cases exposed recently where victims’ stories had been steadfastly ignored for decades, denying them their voice, while the popular media continued to ignore them and support/venerate the other parties involved.

Bit harsh to compare him with MJ at this stage I reckon, as MJ was clearly a child abuser. It’s nowhere near that certain with old Jimmy yet.

It’s nowhere near certain with MJ either, of course. If I were a betting man, my gut feeling is that MJ was innocent and JS was guilty, but I’d be speculating at best based on drip-fed information from the media.

Jackson liked the company of children because he had a mental age of about 12 himself. He was bonkers in the nut, but that doesn’t automatically make him a kiddie fiddler. He was also a prime target for parents who saw him as their retirement fund after little Jimmy had a sleep-over Chez Jacko.

I’m no particular fan of either (nor do I particularly dislike either, either), so I’d like to think I’m fairly ambivalently unbiased here. And obviously this is just ill-informed opinion, but I can see considerably less compelling (anecdotal) evidence for MJ’s guilt than JS’s.

We will now have many people who will testify how much of a bully and a narcissist JS was, that will be adults , the children will have found it impossible to defend themselves.

Sorry cougar, I’m absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.

if I were a paedophile, I’d have a fun park in my garden. And a pet monkey.

Sorry cougar, I’m absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.

Gary Glitter would have a go………

“Where there is a will to condemn, there is evidence.”

Jung Chang.

the children will have found it impossible to defend themselves.

So does Jimmy himself against those who we don’t even know their names or whether these are witness statements verbatim or taken down by a production company for profit.

Who knows but its weird how a victim who lives a torrid, awful life thanks to an abuser who is scared she wouldn’t be believed found a production company who would listen but also probably pay her.

Saying this the production company probably checked their sources- i.e. women did attend that school thoroughly (i.e. maiden names matched register – if……it still existed. If a school has closed down there will be no records left).

Hmmm cougar. I think the ‘sharing a bed for cuddles’ was the bit where I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt….

If my neighbour asked me if my son could stop over and share a bed with him what would I say? I’d pick up the phone to the Police.

If someone is a successful singer – what is the difference? Does wearing white socks, pants too short and belting out catchy 80/90’s pop tunes make it acceptable?

Many of those abused by priests had to ‘wait’ until the tide turned before they felt able to come forward, i really think Hora that you should stick to Lance as a cause celeb

Who knows but its weird how a victim who lives a torrid, awful life thanks to an abuser who is scared she wouldn’t be believed found a production company who would listen but also probably pay her.

You are highly skilled expert working with victims of abuse, recognised worlwide as a legal expert on the impact of abuse on victims, the shame and how long it takes them to speak out and we thank you for your insights.
When a researchers approaches them and says we have other people speaking out and we are doing a programme are , you so berefet of social skills and understanding that you cannot see why they would take this opportunity ?

One spoke of how she was raped by Savile, but that she blamed herself because “no one blamed him.” Another was locked in an isolation unit for days at her approved school when she made allegations about Savile in the 1970s, because she was assumed to be lying, as are so many abused children both then and now. “No one believed me then and I don’t expect anyone to believe me now.” Unless we start listening to children, in decades to come we will be hearing the same tragic stories.

Can you prove they were paid btw or are you just making an unsubstantiated leap of faith?

…….

if I were a paedophile, I’d have a fun park in my garden. And a pet monkey.

If you we’re a Multi Millionaire pop star with a Mental age of 12, you probably would as well ?

Do you honestly believe that Jackson had a mental age of 12?
He was a predator.
On the other hand, he did write some catchy pop songs. *Billie jean is not my lover*

Sorry cougar, I’m absolutely convinced that MJ was a rampant paedophile. Nothing could convince me otherwise.

Sure, and that’s your call of course. Personally, being wholly removed from the situation and not privy to any actual evidence, I doubt I’ll ever be convinced one way or the other.

I think the ‘sharing a bed for cuddles’ was the bit where I stopped giving him the benefit of the doubt….

Like I said, he appeared to have the mind of a child. It’s a bit of a leap from a “cuddle” to playing a special game that you can’t tell mummy about. I’m not saying that sharing a bed with other people’s children is particularly normal or desireable behaviour, it’s at best monumentally naive but it doesn’t automatically mean he was abusing them.

You might be right of course. As I said above, I have no idea what the truth actually is, he could’ve been Pedobear incarnate for all I know. I’m just not convinced that it’s right to condemn someone as guilty until proven innocent just because they’re a bit eccentric.

Eccentricity is fine, abusing others is not, they are not mutually inclusive or exclusive.

There is a guy who always rides in marigolds, don’t think he’s a threat to anyone though

Do you honestly believe that Jackson had a mental age of 12?

He certainly thought more like a child than an Adult.

He was a predator.

Did you honestly think MJ had learning difficulties? How did he learn his lines, routines, practice, tour etc etc?

What next, the Chewbacca defense? 😆

JS -> Guilty! 👿

Hora – Its all about motivation. Any 6 year old girl could learn every single song, with accompanying dance routine on the X factor, having viewed it only once. Seriously. its terrifying to witness

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Michael_Jackson

Did you honestly think MJ had learning difficulties?

I’m reasonably certain he had mental health issues. Whether or not you’d class them as “learning difficulties” is another matter.

If only there had been any other cases exposed recently of trial by media getting the facts wrong? Maybe one where people had unfounded, unproven accusations made against them then splashed all over the popular media, clearly stating it as THE TRUTH

Or to put it differently

If only there had been other cases exposed recently where victims’ stories had been steadfastly ignored for decades, denying them their voice, while the popular media continued to ignore them and support/venerate the other parties involved.

+1

Well put.

If you say a grown adult male has a mental age of 12 says to me that person has learning difficulties.

If a grown adult male was found to have a strong interest in young boys and you tried to explain this away you’d say ‘he never grew up, he loved playing with toys and was just a big boy’.

I think don’t think he was either and the latter was a cover by embarrassed fans of his pop music.