[Closed] Has it been all a bit too easy for Bradley Wiggins to win the tour?

It's looked easy because Sky as a team have done such a great job, not because he's had a walk in the park.

See yesterdays thread.

Just searched for "yesterdays thread", didn't come up with anything

Easy? No, just no one else (team or individuals) has put in the same effort either in the build up or during the race..

"I feel strange," he (Wiggins) said. "I don't know what to feel at the moment. You do something like that and then you sit somewhere like this and that fellow asks a question and straight away it's in a negative sense. So after everything I've done this year, it's like you still have to justify it. 'Oh yes, you've won the Tour, but it is going to be remembered for these people not being here?'

"I don't think all the people who came out from the UK to stand on these climbs in the past two weeks give a monkey's about that. For me, no one's actually praised me yet. No one's said, 'you've been there since the Tour of Algarve in February, winning races – you went to Paris-Nice, you've respected the history of every race you've been to, you've raced and trained and answered all the questions of the press all year."

His voice quavered as his words picked up speed. "You've really taken it on. You came to this Tour as the favourite from Liège and I haven't dropped out of the first two of the GC [general classification] for three weeks now. You've answered all these doping questions as articulately as you can.

"But it's all still in the negative sense. It's 'don't you reckon that it's just because Alberto's not here?' All year it's been, 'have you peaked too early?' And even now, no one's actually said, 'Bloody good on you, mate, well done.'"

When the translator began to render his words into French, Wiggins broke in with a final thought. "I don't think Frank Schleck was in the race when he went positive," he said. "And I don't think Di Gregorio was ever going to do anything on GC."

To his list of achievements this season, Wiggins could have added that he arrived at the Tour having just become the first man in cycling history to win Paris-Nice, the Tour of Romandie and the Dauphiné stage races in the same season. His Guardian column last week, in which he articulated his defence against those who insinuate that his remarkable performances justify suspicion, aroused widespread admiration and converted many doubters. The emotional force of Thursday's outburst may have changed a few more minds."

[url= http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/jul/19/tour-de-france-bradley-wiggins ]Guardian[/url]

If i'd known how easy it was i'd have entered myself.

A life time of dedication and hard work, sacrificing the social/family life us 9-5ers take for granted. Oh and cycling a bejillion miles round france in three weeks

I know what you mean about it seeming dull, it might look like Sky have just pootled along but they have neutralised all the other teams by simply being too strong (EBH and Froome in particular) and the other teams are made up of professional athletes, believe it or not

Riding 3,500k over some of the highest peaks in the world? Yeah... its been a ****ing doddle! 🙄

His Olympic gold medals were probably a piece of piss too

Nibali and Evans both had chances - they were not strong enough.

Could Froome have beaten Wiggins? Perhaps. Its a bit academic really isnt it as he rides for Wiggins.

Best man is going to win.

Best [s]man[/s] team leader is going to win.

Not easy and far from dull (IMO)
More of a "thinking cyclists" Tour than a "comic book hero" Tour maybe, but in addition to the GC there's been Voekler's taking of the KoM, resurgence of French cycling in their stage wins, exciting contest for young rider, last hurrah for some of the "old timers" and the back of the mind feeling that "Wiggins/Team Sky can't just ride away with it can he/they ?"

Haven't enjoyed a Tour as much as this for ages, and not just for partisan reasons......

Strongest man will finish second this year and win next.

there is no proof of that. Unless of course you want to compare wiggins and froome against each other in TTs....

there's loads more to winning a grand tour that just being the 'strongest' rider.

[i]It's been the least interesting Tour I can remember[/i]

Typical attitude when a Brit is winning anything, lets put them down and say it's shit. Can't see how its very different to any other tour over the recent past.

If it's boring, and it certainly hasn't been for me, then it's every other teams fault not Sky.

Sometimes you have to work very hard to make something very difficult look easy.

Maybe the thread title was trying too hard to be contraversial, but he has made it look easy and no one else has mounted anthing like a serious challenge.

And yes, when you look at his year, it's been incredible.

I am confident that he's riding clean too.

I don't think it's been boring at all. But then I grew up watching Big Mig and Banesto do much the same thing in the early 90s and I loved watching that too. Maybe I'm just weird, I dunno.

Wrong @djaustin

Just searched for "yesterdays thread", didn't come up with anything

[url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/one-more-tobelerone-for-bradley-wiggins ]Clicky[/url]

I've been enjoying it, nice to see the young riders coming up too - Sagan and Pinot, obviously.

No - wwaswas sums it up perfectly. Why the OP? Have you seen how many strong riders have been dropped in the last few stages while Wiggo and team have kept their relentless march towards success. Complete stranglehold by team sky and very impressive combination of individual skills into the best team of the tour. Shame it has the sky logo on it, but can cope with that (just)...

[i]Strongest man will finish second this year and win next.[/i]

As far as 'strongest man' or Vroom Froome better than Wiggins then you don't know that at all, do you. You don't know what percentage effort wiggins was putting in compared to froome, froome was there to work for wiggins, so might have been working at 90% max compared to wiggins at 85%. But you just don't know and anyone saying froome is better than wiggins, when their on the same team, with one working for the other hasn't got a clue.

Yeah although I wouldn't call this TdF a classic it's been no less interesting than most of Big Mig's and Lance's Tour wins. The only characters that have added much excitement in TdF's in the last twenty years have been dopers. It's pretty obvious is the top guys aren't doping and doing similar training then they're not going to be jumping away but minutes into each other on each mountain stage so the whole thing gets more predictable (barring injuries and illness), that's a price worth paying IMO.

When the translator began to render his words into French, Wiggins broke in with a final thought. "I don't think Frank Schleck was in the race when he went positive," he said.

I'm clearly being a bit of a 'tard, but what does this actually mean?

Gary_M - Member
Strongest man will finish second this year and win next.

As far as 'strongest man' or Vroom Froome better than Wiggins then you don't know that at all, do you. You don't know what percentage effort wiggins was putting in compared to froome, froome was there to work for wiggins, so might have been working at 90% max compared to wiggins at 85%. But you just don't know and anyone saying froome is better than wiggins, when their on the same team, with one working for the other hasn't got a clue.

Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days, had he been allowed to. Was clearly waiting for him on the climbs. He might have been able to win it, he might not, the only pity is we didn't get to see him try.

If Froome had been on a different team and so competing against Wiggins, he'd not have had Team Sky riding for him and so would probably still not have won.

I think it's been a great Tour. There've been fewer flat stages where they let a break go then the sprint teams reel them for a sprint finish and Sky's dominance have mean the smaller teams have been treating stages almost like classics and attacking and going for stage wins, which has lead to some great stages.

When the translator began to render his words into French, Wiggins broke in with a final thought. "I don't think Frank Schleck was in the race when he went positive," he said.

I'm clearly being a bit of a 'tard, but what does this actually mean?

"Not in the race" as in he had already dropped too much time to be a GC contender by the time he withdrew.

[i]Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days[/i]

How do you know that?

IMO it was particular interesting in the first 2 weeks because of the GC standings + crashes + the possibility of things kicking off in the Pyranees after nothing really happening in the Alps.

It's simmered down since and is Wiggo's barring a crash.

Toblerone stages never really delivered.

Impressed with Sagan, TJ and Voekler.

True there's not been much action around the GC most of the time, but we have had: escapes caught and passed with the finish line in sight; escapes getting away ending with cat and mouse sprints; swashbuckling mountain climbing for the KOM competitions; and a few bunch sprints including one lead out by the yellow jersey; and a huge number of big crashes followed by riding with blood-soaked injuries.
If that's boring go and watch golf!

Seems clear to me that the massive strength of Sky is what's done it. Particularly having Froome on the team too.

He might have been able to win it, he might not, the only pity is we didn't get to see him try.

his chance will come, perhaps wiggins will be supporting him, perhaps they'll be heading up rival teams. Froome can have no complaints, Sky set out to win the jersey not win stages, he'd have known that from the start. He's had a great tour, massively increased his exposure and will undoubtedly lead a team in the next year or two. It would be interesting to see how strong he is AGAINST a similar sky team led by Wiggins. Evans and Nibali failed to make an impression, I wonder if he could do better?

When he says that he lost concentration yesterday it could be construed that he's finding it easy. Froome had a much more killer instinct trying to get even more time over Nibali. I'm surprised that Wiggo wouldn't want to absolutely bury any of his rivals.

"All the way up that last climb my concentration had gone, everything about performance had gone. Chris was egging me on to take more time and I was in another world, really."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/18914331

I said it yesterday, I'll say it today. Was last year boring as well because Cav had 3 or 4 world class sprinters delivering to within sight of the line day after day so he could then take the win? Clearly it's not just Cav otherwise he'd have done the same this year - equally if Goss had been the chosen one last year instead of Cav then i assume he'd have won almost as many stages.

It's a team game, with an individual winner. Sky have dominated the GC just as HTC dominated the sprints last year. Just because it's happened at 1/5 of the speed, doesn't make it any less impressive.

Is there any chance that radio communication between the cyclists and team managers will get banned in future? A quick Google search looks like they tried it a few years ago without much success.

There is a show on ITV4 now about Wiggins.

Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days, had he been allowed to. Was clearly waiting for him on the climbs. He might have been able to win it, he might not, the only pity is we didn't get to see him try.

Yeah, maybe... Wiggins might look sometimes like he couldn't match him on the climbs, but he's managing his efforts with the single goal of being in yellow in Paris, and Froome isn't. Also you don't really know how it would play out over a few days in the mountains- Wiggins can't put the spurts in like Froome, but he can motor along more steadily pretty handily. For me it's far from clear that Froome would necessarily have spat him out if he'd been allowed to try, over the course of a few days in the Pyrenees.

That said, I reckon he could, and should, have had the stage yesterday.

Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days

Cobblers! It takes more than a turn of speed to be a team leader and No1 rider. Theres a lot more too it! Bradley himself found this out the hard way on his first tour for Sky. He was suitably bollocked by Brailsford for not taking the responsibility seriously enough.

Anyway..Bradley said last night that Froomes chance will come and he could well be supporting him. The Sky/Team GB set-up is famously unsentimental, and is no respecter of reputations. If they thought Froome could win it over Bradley, that's how they'd have set the team up from the start

I do think he/they should have let Froome go for the stage win yesterday though

[i]Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days, had he been allowed to. Was clearly waiting for him on the climbs. He might have been able to win it, he might not, the only pity is we didn't get to see him try.[/i]

The plan is to get Wiggins to Paris wearing the yellow jersey.
Anything else is not the plan.

Changing that plan now would be a really stupid idea.

Don't forget, Froome lost time earlier due to a crash. I think he could have taken time out of Bradley at multiple mountain stages, all else being equal, and more than enough to overcome the time trial deficits. Hence I think he is the strongest rider this year. However, he has shown he's a team player and his reward will come, either in the Vuelta or next years TdF (or both).

The Sky/Team GB set-up is famously unsentimental

The Sky/Team GB set-up is famously unsentimental, and is no respecter of reputations

Kenny > Hoy in the sprint for example

Anyone saying Froome is much stronger than Wiggins clearly doesn't have a clue about road racing, let alone grand tours. The team is a massive part of anyone winning (clean), if Froome had Sky and Wiggo had Cofidis then yeah Froome probably would have won. Seeing as they're on the same team then you really can't draw any conclusions - both of them arrived relatively fresh for the big mountain top finishes - the times when Froome was working on the front were the very steep sections where it is much less of a benefit to the guy on the wheel.
Is Froome better at putting in some fast out-of-the-saddle attacks? Probably - that's the only thing we really saw (and even then only twice) but had they been competing against each other then why would Wiggins have let him get to that point in a stage so fresh? Answer is he wouldn't, he'd have set a much higher tempo earlier on rather than continually holding a bit back most of the climbs (in case Nibali/Evans etc.) attacked. A mountain TT would have given us a better indication of relative climbing ability but there wasn't one. And even if there was and Froome won it then I highly doubt he'd have won it by enough to recoup time lost to Wiggins on the flatter TTs.
So stop being dicks drawing stupid conclusions from a gap that opened up for about 10 seconds on one stage and Froome goofing about at the end of yesterdays stage when Wiggin's head was clearly elsewhere.

I wouldn't say its been too easy at all, I just think that team Sky have played the overall race game well ... steady wins the day for the TdF.

As for froome, I think that he could have gone off the front, but at what cost? Burnt out for the next day ? Sky have said from the outset of the race its about GC, and short term glory doesnt alwasy equate to that.

Fewer people on drugs?
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/4138378.html

http://www.sportsscientists.com/

Has it been all a bit too easy for Bradley Wiggins to win the tour?

Is there an emoticon for :head in hands: ?

anyways who fricking cares about what might have been eh?

There'll be a British winner on the podium in Paris and I for one reckon thats flipping fantastic.

Froome could have taken time out of Wiggins in the last couple of days, had he been allowed to. Was clearly waiting for him on the climbs. He might have been able to win it, he might not, the only pity is we didn't get to see him try.

Could he though?

There were a couple of times where Froom's looked strong and Wiggins hasn't (the one where his radio didn't work, and the latest stage finish for example). But then look at that photo of the finish Wiggins is daydreaming his way up, Froome is flat out.

And Froome's been dropped and come back a couple of times, and Wiggins has taken 2min out of him in the TT (and probaly the same today), could Froome (and would Sky have let him) gained 4 minutes from the couple of occasions he's looked stronger than Wiggins.

I don't know the answer, no one does, but I suspect seeing the number of races Wiggins has won this year, that Sky knew what they were doing, and knew that Wiggins was the stronger rider on the startline. So maybe Froome was stronger than thy thought, but I reckon even if he'd been allowed to go or had equal suppourt as Wiggins he'd still be 2nd.

Froome has been helped up the climbs by the team just as much as Wiggins who is simply maintaining the advantage so might have plenty in reserve. Why beast to the top when you only need to stay with the other leaders?

I think there's a bit of balance required here. To say it's been easy for Wiggins is oversimplifying it somewhat - it's never easy to win the Tour. BUT, it has definitely been less exciting than some we've seen in recent years - particularly with Schleck and Contador battling on the hills, doing trackstands halfway up climbs and so on. Sky's team is so strong that they've been able to choke the life out of the competition {and have the other teams seemed less competitive than previous years?) - but with what it cost them to assemble the team, it's the least they could hope for!

if could do a 100,000 vertical metres of training i'd make it look easy as well.

its been a master class in team racing. sky have held a high tempo in the mountains just higher than comfortable for most, which was made it difficult to attack, no one with any GC intensions has been able to put together a supported attack. its not been flash bang exciting, more of a momentum to it.

i've loved it.

Has it been all a bit too easy for Bradley Wiggins to win the tour?

I can just imagine how that question would be answered in one of his press conferences.

He's had a phenominal season after dedicating the last few years of his life to doing what he is doing now. He's trained phenominally hard even by pro tour standards and him and sky have been single minded in the pursuit of the yellow in Paris.

While it may look easy it is only easy because of how well they are riding. Just like true talent in any sport makes it look easy.

Robert Millar: http://www.cyclingnews.com/blogs/robert-millar/robert-millar-tommy-guns-of-the-tour-de-france

Wiggins’s emergence may look robotic to some people but it takes a serious amount of work to reach that level, not just from him but everyone round about him. The sheer concentration needed to always be in the front, always paying attention is awesome and that's what impressed me the most: no mistakes, no bad moves. Admittedly Froome has thrown a couple of toy spanners into the machine but he signed up for position and no amount of arm waving and theatrical playing with the earpiece will change that. If anything he'll just come across as stroppy. So a bit of decorum please, take note of how David Millar conducted himself after his stage win if you need some clues.

So for the grumblers, remember as an outsider you don't see the dreary days in November doing hill repeats on a big gear or the gruelling sessions perfecting that time trial position. If it really was simple then everyone could be a pro bike rider. You are welcome to try.

Wonder what odds in the bookies on froome not winning the tour de france next year unless he is the sky team leader id get - im feeling like a flutter since by the time i actually got round to backing wiggo the odds were poor enough not to bother !

Leading the race is a major ballache, committments/protocul after the day's racing take about an hour and a half. Meanwhile the rest of the team can begin their recuperation, Wiggins alluded to this stress in one of his press conferences.

EDIT: It is fantastic that Robert Millar is back writing about cycling, one of the most intelligent commentators.

s there any chance that radio communication between the cyclists and team managers will get banned in future?

I think it would certainly make for a better, more interesting race, but the teams/riders are dead against it

train hard - race easy

Anyone saying Froome is much stronger than Wiggins clearly doesn't have a clue about road racing, let alone grand tours.

Sorry - that sounds very much like "if you don't think the way I do you must be an arse" - the very worst kind of interweb crap arguing!

My ponderings are around what would be the situation now if Team Sky had switched lead man from the outset with Wiggins riding for Froome and everything at Sky the same - would Froome have a bigger advantage over the next non Sky rider than Wiggins has now? We'll never know but what I think it would have meant was that a 1-2 would probably not have been on the cards as wiggins would have had to ride himself daft on the lower slopes to launch Froome and lost big time to the other GC contenders once spent.

I do wonder how much of a "hair trigger" Sky management must have had ready to launch a plan B and send Froome up the road if Nibali had been able to make bigger attacks and Wiggins had done an Evans and cracked. Would they have waited until the end of the stage and tried a new plan the next day or was there a time up the road he would have had to get before ditching Wiggins. Fortunatly we will never know!

someone famous once said something like "the harder I train, the easier it gets"

as for Froome, I wonder if he is too excitable at the moment and has used Wiggo this year as a bit of a sanity check, Wiggo has learnt how to win the tour the hard way, which breaks to follow, where time can be gained and more importantly where it can be lost. I have afeeling without Wiggo, Froome would chase everything like a hyperactive spaniel, tire and get picked off by a more organised team. I think Froome has learnt a lot from finishing second on the 2011 vuelta and this tour, he will be a big contender for the future as he has a year or two on the new emerging talent like Pinot.

http://www.bradleywigginsfoundation.org/site/

could always "ride with Brad" on a 160k sportive and tell him how easy it was........

If I wanted to go and insult him to his face I could wait for my neice to finish school and probably bump into him at the gates.

Instead I've done the cowardly thing and posted on here.

But, really, it was never meant as an insult, he's clearly put in the effort and worked incredibly hard, which has made it appear easy (to me and my uneducated eye).

A life time of dedication and hard work, sacrificing the social/family life us 9-5ers take for granted.

I see this sort of phrase a lot. So yes, it takes hard work and dedication but lets also be honest, this is his living. I've worked 50-60 hour weeks for most of my working life as have a lot of people. You do what you need to do, professional athletes are no different.

That said, I know there's a question over whether it was "too easy" but this tour was designed not to be a climbers tour and Wiggins is the right man at the right time. He and Sky have made Cadel look quite poor by comparison and we know Evans and BMC are pretty damn good. You can only race against the opposition he's had and whether Froome might have beaten him in some parallel universe is irrelevant; he's won it fair and square and deserves it.

anyways who fricking cares about what might have been eh?

There'll be a British winner on the podium in Paris and I for one reckon thats flipping fantastic.

Abso-flipping-lutely!!! And lets be honest... would anyone have predicted a British 1-2 before the start of the tour? Seriously?!

It'll be interesting to see how much time Brad and Froome put on their competition in tomorrows time trial. I can see it being a serious amount!

Then all we need is for them to lead Cav out for the win on the Champs-Élysées to make this tour damn near perfect!!! 😀

but this tour was designed not to be a climbers tour and Wiggins is the right man at the right time.

What is different in climbing terms to this tour over others?

If there were another day or even two in the mountains who would have challenged Wiggins given that nobody has been able to do it so far.

An extra time trial helps Wiggins however he still has the race all but won before that stage has arrived!

Binners - spot on! Wiggo & Froome 1/2 in the GC and Cav winning on the CE - that I will defo have a beer to!

have i missed a week, i thought the tour ended on sunday?

[i]I think he could have taken time out of Bradley at multiple mountain stages, all else being equal, and more than enough to overcome the time trial deficits[/i]

As I said before if you don't know what effort each rider is working that then thats pure sepculation. Wiggins wouldn't want to be riding at 100% as he would want to keep something in reserve, maybe froome was close to 100%.

What is different in climbing terms to this tour over others?

Prudhomme said he wanted less big mountain stages this year so it wasn't as focused on the hardcore climbers and would favour all-round ability. Given Contador and Andy Schleck weren't in the race it's hard to test the hypothesis that this would have worked out.

I think he could have taken time out of Bradley at multiple mountain stages, all else being equal, and more than enough to overcome the time trial deficits

look at end of yesterdays stage... froome wanting to go, being a showy little **** with all his hand waving.

then when he gets let go for the finish, he winds it up to the line, and his face shows him tearing himself to shreds for the last 150m. meanwhile bradders was sat in like he was riding a shopper along a canal. faces over the line tell a real story.

[img] [/img]

if you think froome had it over brad, and brad wasn't holding something back, then i think you may have been hoodwinked.

"Has it been all a bit too easy for Bradley Wiggins to win the tour?"

Yes... it has appeared so.

But to me that is a sign of Greatness with a big fat captial G.

Good on him and good on the team.... Like watching Iniesta for Spain or Messi for Barca

You can only beat what is in front of you.... and they have done that with some aplomb.

edit ... rubbish post

Photo of the year that one 🙂

Not in my opinion. I would say that Bradley has looked composed, but I believe that is a testament to the humungous amount of training he has done, to the experience he has got from all the other races (of all disciplines) that he has ridden, to his mental state and to the coherent policy of his team.

He's done an awesome job. Chapeau Bradley.

I've really enjoyed this year's tour.

then when he gets let go for the finish, he winds it up to the line, and his face shows him tearing himself to shreds for the last 150m. meanwhile bradders was sat in like he was riding a shopper along a canal. faces over the line tell a real story.

Well I think we could probably agree that Froome had towed Wiggins along for a fair amount of time. Lets not pretend that Bradley has had to do the same work as everyone else for the whole tour, that's the whole point of him being a protected rider.

Photo of the year that one

for sure. he seems to be realising that THAT was the point that it was in the bag.

hmmmmmmm, smug face.

Well I think we could probably agree that Froome had towed Wiggins along for a fair amount of time. Lets not pretend that Bradley has had to do the same work as everyone else for the whole tour, that's the whole point of him being a protected rider.

arguably. but as froome is second to last in the line, it's not like he hasn't been protected...

I would say that Bradley has looked composed, but I believe that is a testament to the humungous amount of training he has done, to the experience he has got from all the other races (of all disciplines) that he has ridden, to his mental state and to the coherent policy of his team.

Yup.

To borrow from Fred Astaire,

If it doesn't look easy, you aren't working hard enough

Has it been all a bit too easy for Bradley Wiggins to win the tour?

No, it's taken him 20 years of training and racing to do this.

Love that photo.

I think all the Froome fanbois are forgetting that when the hammer really went down from the potential threats it was Wiggo who went to the front and Froome who was hanging on. It's not as if Wiggo has ever tried to follow Nibbles (or any of the other "pure" climbers) when they make an attack, but sure as night follows day he caught them back up. I'm less than convinced that he didn't have the capability to also ride his way back up to Froome if he'd made a similar attack and actually kept it going.

No, it's taken him 20 years of training and racing to do this.

A simple answer that says all that is needed.. Roll on Sunday!!

indeed. i think the radio contact shenanigans and brad staying back wasn't that froome dropped him, more that brad didnt [i]need [/i]to go, and thus didn't go.

keep it in the bag for another day... the yellow jersey is not about beating cocky team mates. where

We didn't see Brad properly attack, I think because it's not as efficient. 30s flat out takes more out of you than 5 mins on or just above the red line. I think that's their scientific approach at work. Don't do more than you have to.

If Wiggo really has been taking it more easily than Froome, it'll be interesting to see if he gives it the beans tomorrow and blows everyone out of the water for the stage win. Is he the best TTer left?

So stop being dicks drawing stupid conclusions from a gap that opened up for about 10 seconds on one stage and Froome goofing about at the end of yesterdays stage when Wiggin's head was clearly elsewhere.

^

I think what we've seen is a masterfull display of control, tactics, and threat netralisation by Sky working as a team to get the yellow jersey. It's been fascinating.

When you watch experts in any field do their thing, it looks easy - doesn't mean it is easy though.

All this stuff about froome is just totally hypothetical.