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Has anyone been on the Alpha Course?
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MrWoppitFree Member
Actually, yes. Leaving aside all the harm she did with her so-called "charity" work, she went to her grave a broken woman – said she hadn't "found christ" despite all her years of self-denial and prayer…
surferFree MemberSo Mother Theresa had it all wrong then?
According to Christopher Hitchins yes. He claims she was not a friend to the poor but a friend to poverty.
She also said the greatest threat to the world was abortion. I disagree strongly with this.tygerFree MemberMr Woppit
By the way, C. S. Lewis was a pompous half-wit who couldn't write for toffee.
I disagree. It might be your opinion but you state it as a fact which is not true.
Tiboy – Always great to know another Christian 🙂
feensterFree MemberOk, I'll stop trying to be clever, and say what I mean.
There is a saying I heard: "The church is a hospital for sinners, not a museum for Saints".
It's understandable, when observing people like FoxyChicks neighbours (and there's plenty of them), to conclude that if Christianity is all it claims to be, then people who proclaim themselves Christians should be better people than everyone else. Without knowing the starting points of these people, you could conclude that Christanity is rubbish, and that Christians are inconsistent with their own high standards. The thing is though, attaining a certain standard of goodness is not a pre-requisite for becoming or staying a Christian. Surely, by the nature of what they promise and aspire to, churches will be full of broken and immature people, who have a long way to go emotionally, spiritually and morally?
higgoFree Member… she (Mother Teresa)went to her grave a broken woman – said she hadn't "found christ" despite all her years of self-denial and prayer…
So she's burning in hell right now?
higgoFree MemberBy the way, C. S. Lewis was a pompous half-wit who couldn't write for toffee
I disagree. It might be your opinion but you state it as a fact which is not true
I don't know if he was a pompous half-wit (he seemed OK in the film about the woman who broke her leg) but I doubt history will record him as a truly great writer, philosopher or theologian.
tygerFree MemberTMH – I reckon the Narnia Chronicals, Out of the Silent Planet trilogy and his theological books make him a great writer to a great many.
clubberFree MemberDoes that have any relevance to debate? Writing well doesn't make an opinion more or less valid.
simonfbarnesFree MemberFYI, C.S. Lewis used to be an atheist, then later recanted and became a Christian. The film mentioned above is "Shadowlands", a personal favourite.
tygerFree Memberclubber – I just took exception to Mr Woppit's remark. 🙂
sfb – Shadowlands is a fav of mine too.
clubberFree MemberOk, another one for debate
– I find it impossible to believe in the god that some people have made up for whatever purpose and written about in the bible. (I can quote the origins of the bible above as fact as that's what I believe 😉 ). I honestly have tried to see if I could believe but cannot – it all just seems so obviously made up by people.
– the bible says that man has free will
– the christian god has therefore made me in a way that means I am damned to hell right from the start (unless of course I had been brainwashed to think otherwise)
That doesn't sound like a loving god to me?
higgoFree MemberFYI, C.S. Lewis used to be an atheist, then later recanted and became a Christian.
Ah but Britain's best ever pole-vaulter went the other way so I reckon it's honours even.
higgoFree Member– the christian god has therefore made me in a way that means I am damned to hell right from the start
No it was either the snake or the wife. Something about an apple.
tygerFree MemberActually it was about Adam and Eve's disobedience and it was a fruit – it doesn't mention an apple.
You can't make someone love you so God gave us free-will so we could choose.
You're either for Him or against Him but the offers there (until you die). Truth of the matter is that God loves you.
Alpha is a good course and very non-threatening. There's no harm in just asking questions (but maybe there are some on here who are afraid of the answers).
simonfbarnesFree MemberYou're either for Him or against Him
simplistic. If a god does good stuff I don't mind it but how would I ever know? I choose indifference. It seems to me unnecessarily anthropomorphic to refer to a god as 'Him', unless you're suggesting there are more than one and they have sex ?
(but maybe there are some on here who are afraid of the answers
I'm certainly unwilling to be told the 'answers' at length…
tygerFree Membersfb – your questions would be typical of those being raised at an Alpha course – I reckon you could do worse than try it!
As for me, well to believe in a God means also believing in a Devil and I also believe in The Trinity of God – but once again, these are the questions being raised on Alpha.
AristotleFree Membertyger – Member
You're either for Him or against Him but the offers there (until you die). Truth of the matter is that God loves you.
There it is again. What is this "Truth" of which people speak? Surely the truth of the matter is that some people want to believe that their god loves them and that they practice various rituals and traditions that have been developed over the years by other people in order to please the god in which they strongly believe.
The poor, unlucky inhabitants of the world who happened not to be within reach of the founders of a particular religion/existed before the founders became enlightened/died before a religion changed its rules to suit the times were/are presumably condemned to an eternity of damnation.
Or maybe it's all baseless and untrue?
As for me….I also believe in The Trinity of God
Why so?
simonfbarnesFree Membersfb – your questions would be typical of those being raised at an Alpha course – I reckon you could do worse than try it!
I wish – were I able to believe I could marry my g/f. Unfortunately it would require a lobotomy 🙁
ourmaninthenorthFull MemberI'm intrigued by the idea that God must be something one can see or touch in order to believe in, rather than say as a concept which exists only in the mind (for that is where concepts can only exist).
It isn't possible to see sub-atomic particles, but much of science – certainly physics – is based on their existence and behaviour. Must I deny them until I can see them with my own eye, and even if I can see them, what should I do with them?
Dwakins: intelligent man, but simplistic evangelist.
I have no faith, nor any desire or need for faith. But I do not dismiss those who do on the basis of their having faith alone. I judge others by their behaviour toward their fellow man. I might, say, follow a Mills-ian approach, and view the World in an entirely utiliarian way, or I might apply the Leviathan and the concept – look, there it is again – of the war of all against all.
I shall, irrespective of the religious beliefs of any, look at human behaviour on the basis of what it does to others before I decry the faith, atheism or agnosticism of those people. We are often little more than what we do, and so adopting the playground mindset of "prove it", either way, does not move any of this forward in the context of human relations, other than to demonstrate that unwavering belief in anything or nothing is of little use when, for example, I come to mourn the passing of a loved one or celebrate the joy of a newborn child.
So, returning to the OP's question, should he go on the Alpha Course. Naturally, but also stop by the nearest mosque, synagogue, greyhound track and pub. Tell us which helped you, in your situation, the most.
Good luck.
tygerFree Membersfb –
I wish – were I able to believe I could marry my g/f. Unfortunately it would require a lobotomy
One of my best friends is a lecturer with and Physics degree and a Theology degree and he believes the same as me as a Christian. You don't kiss your brain away by taking a step of faith.
surferFree MemberOurmaninthenorth. I refer you to my argument earlier about the tangible impact that unprovable belief has on our everyday lives.
Often the argument is raised (and it has been several times within this thread) that people should be allowed to believe in whatever invisible friend gives them comfort. However it is far more complex than that and when political and economic decision are being made based on no evidence (and in this way it is unique) then religions have an obligation to prove the existence of their gods.
I would rather have the additional hospital please?surferFree MemberTheology degree
Hardly a respectable academic qualification is it? The hijacking of apparent scientific method to study the unfathomable and made up!
surferFree MemberAh but Britain's best ever pole-vaulter went the other way so I reckon it's honours even
Do you mean Jonathon Edwards? He was a triple jumper.
tygerFree Membersurfer – Do you know anyone who has done a Theology degree and do you know what's involved? Personally I would never "dis" anyone's qualification.
surferFree Membersurfer – Do you know anyone who has done a Theology degree and do you know what's involved? Personally I would never "dis" anyone's qualification.
I do actually, although not a close friend. The area of study was vague (by definition) and they were totally focused on their study through their previous belief in god.
They produced nothing of academic worth and simply embarked on a journey of reinforcing their beliefs.
I would absolutely question the validity of any theological study and see it as a wholesale waste of time and resource.
Last I heard they were undertaking a PHD. What this can contribute to the body of "scientific" data out there is hard to fathom. I see the study of the Tooth fairy as a more valid area, at least it may have a spin off for the study of dentistry.BigDummyFree MemberI am 100% sure that I don't want to go on an Alpha course, ever.
But the modern vogue for rude, shouty reductionist atheism is incredibly tedious. I wouldn't want to go on a Dawkins course either. 🙂
simonfbarnesFree MemberYou don't kiss your brain away by taking a step of faith.
I would have to eliminate my sceptical intellect to achieve it.
surferFree MemberBut the modern vogue for rude, shouty reductionist atheism is incredibly tedious. I wouldn't want to go on a Dawkins course either.
Not aware their was one?
Its hard not to reduce religion to the belief in an invisible friend. When it controls resources that can be best used elsewhere and negatively impacts the lives of millions then its hard not to be a bit "shouty"
Or maybe you thing Atheists should treat religion with "respect" or deference?
Not for me thank you.surferFree MemberYou don't kiss your brain away by taking a step of faith.
I think it was Hemingway that said "all thinking men are Atheists" whether true or not if furthers your argument not one bit.
BigDummyFree MemberThere isn't. But if there was it would be run by and for dogmatic and tedious berks with mad eyes and ordinary, decent people wouldn't want to go. 🙂
jahwombleFree Member"Do you know anyone who has done a Theology degree and do you know what's involved?"
yes and it was a joke, he even states that himself and he's a vicar, well ex vicar anyway…gave it up to be a technical author.
I work in an environment, where not only is christianity discouraged, but we now actively try to avoid employing avid christians on the grounds that their judgement is fundamentally flawed, and good intentions or not….they are more trouble than they are worth in the environment I work in. A few years back one was even been disciplined for trying to persuade one of our clients to attend the alpha course.
I'm an atheist and will stay one, and don't bother telling me to go on an alpha course cos it might open my eyes, that's on a par with telling me to believe that the earth is flat or the moon is made of cheese and there's a course I could go on which will explain it all to me, just plain stupid.
So, in answer to the original op's question. no I haven't and I wont be doing either.
surferFree MemberThere isn't. But if there was it would be run by and for dogmatic and tedious berks with mad eyes and ordinary, decent people wouldn't want to go.
Sounds like there would be little room for us Atheists then given it would be filled with religious zealots and their apologists pretending to be "objective" !
You know the type.AristotleFree MemberI'm not sure how not being an adherant of religion automatically makes a person a "disciple" of the non-deity-worshipping Richard Dawkins.
Non-belief was around before he wrote a book, although he possibly voiced what a lot of people thought, but didn't know how to articulate.
Not having blind faith is not the same as denouncing a god. Given evidence and rational explanation (which is not something associated with religion), many people would be prepared to change their views in response to the evidence.
tygerFree Memberjahwomble – sounds like a nice place where you work!
surfer – I can tell you're very proud of your qualifications. 🙂
surferFree Membersurfer – I can tell you're very proud of your qualifications.
Not really but they are "robust"
LoulaBellaFree Member"t helps me cope day to day with caring for my severly handicapped son, it gives me reasoning, solice and comfort. "
Perhaps your son would be better off being cared for by professionals? You wouldn't need your jesus crutch then. I'm sure it's very comforting but as I said before – being comforting doesn't make it true. You have to prove the case, and that has not yet been done.
Jeusu loves you, everyone else thinks your a **** MrWhoppit!
'pwned'
Chapter 2 vs 6 the Gospel according to LoulaBellasimonfbarnesFree Membereveryone else thinks your a **** MrWhoppit!
I don't. It's as well not to claim what to know what 'everyone' thinks, when many of us are not even self-consistent in thinking.
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