Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

Except that the Japanese word for “deer” is “shika”, and the Japanese transliteration of “deer” would be “de-re” (with a long vowel), not “deore”. If you based it on pronunciation, it would be “deare” (de-ah-re), there’s no way to transliterate it with the “o” there. If you say “deore” to a Japanese person, they won’t know what you’re talking about unless they’re a cyclist, but “d’or” is borrowed from French.

would be “de-re” (with a long vowel), not “deore”

Yes, but they would have been making up a new unique name, not reusing an existing word… just starting with it. It might well be that Shimano have it wrong, or want to re-write history to tell the story they want, but their copy does say…

“SHIMANO DEORE was introduced as a full-fledged components series for touring at the beginning of the 1980s. DEORE was a coined word from deer, representing the touring scene with riders splendidly riding around fields and mountains on bicycles while enjoying cycling.”

And they did stick the Deer head logo on the first Deore XT… for some reason.

Yes, but they were making up a new unique name, not reusing a existing word… just starting with it.

But, the transliteration of “d’or” into Japanese is ディオーレ, which transcribes to English as “deore”. So, the origin of the word is “d’or” (gold). When they sold it internationally, people had no idea what it meant and mistook it for “deer”. Shimano marketing saw this and decided to use the deer thing as marketing. It isn’t a transliteration of “deer”.

But, the transliteration of “d’or” into Japanese is ディオーレ, which transcribes to English as “deore”. So, the origin of the word is “d’or” (gold).

Where have Shimano ever said that? I mean, while trying to work out what the name refers to, an outsider could understandably guess at that being what it meant… but did Shimano ever say that it meant that?

Wish I still had my one of these tees…

did Shimano ever say that it meant that?

It’s how you write “d’or” in Japanese. It’s not how you write “deer.” It doesn’t mean “deer” in Japanese and no Japanese person would think it does because that’s not the transliteration of “deer” into Japanese, leaving aside that the Japanese word for deer is “shika”. The deer thing is just some nonsense the Shimano marketing people made up after English speakers mistook the word.

And the deer head logo? If it’s a marketing thing, then it’s over 40 years old now.

So, nothing from Shimano… who say something different thols2? It is theirs.

Round and round… [ from 12 years ago ]

What does 'Deore' mean??

And the deer head logo? If it’s a marketing thing, then it’s over 40 years old now.

The original Deore didn’t use the deer-head marketing or logo. That came out with Deore XT, two years later. Shimano marketing had time to spot that English speakers confused “deore” and “deer” and then create a story that it was a Japanese transliteration of “deer”.

its actually stated on Shimano’s own website that it means Deer.

Because that’s the nonsense their marketing people came out with after seeing that English speakers confused the words. Japanese people don’t use “deore” to mean “deer”. It’s just something that Shimano marketing made up. If you look at the origin of the Mitsubishi Starion, the marketing department insist it means “star orion”, not a misspelling of “stallion” (Mitsubishi had horse derived model names like “Colt”, and “Canter”). The reality is that they were embarrassed because they misspelled “stallion” as “starion”, but they couldn’t admit it publicly. Marketing people make up nonsense origins of product names whenever it is convenient for them. The deore-deer link is just the marketing department jumping on an opportunity.

Because that’s the nonsense their marketing people came out with after seeing that English speakers confused the words.

Deore always had the deer head from when it launched (Not on the mech admittedly).

*** EDIT *** Its possible they launched it and everyone got so confused almost immediately by the time they printed the 1980 catalogue they’d added the deer head.

Said 1980 catalogue for reference:

Deore always had the deer head from when it launched

If it did, it’s not because “deore” means “deer” in Japanese. It’s because the marketing department decided to use the similarity of the spellings. “Deore” is the Japanese transliteration of “d’or”. The transliteration of “deer” would not have an “o” in it, and Japanese people call deer “shika”, not “deore”.

Jagermeister logo.

Whyte bikes versus Rich Energy logo.

Despite multiple incorrect sources on the internet, I believe 11 speed is 3.76mm cog spacing & 10 speed is 3.9mm. Interested to find out what linkglide/cues is.

So, Shimano just blatantly ripped off the Jagermeister deer head for their marketing because it had gold palm leaves under it (palme d’or), but used the similarity of “deer” and “deore” to avoid lawsuits?

Shimano just blatantly ripped off the Jagermeister deer head for their marketing because it had gold palm leaves under it (palme d’or)

It does look a fair bit like that version of the Jagermeister logo from 20 years after the Shimano use. Less like the contemporary logo…

There’s some Fred Perry in that original Shimano one. They did seem to be trying to look and sound European. Your gold thing sounds plausible, but Shimano have a different story (and have done for over 40 years). If the gold name was ever a thing, they dropped it straight away… and I can’t find any first hand reference to it.

I believe 11 speed is 3.76mm cog spacing

Shimano road cassettes, yes. Shimano MTB cassettes, no.

So, here’s my theory. The Japanese head office called their new product “d’or”, which they wrote in Japanese, then transliterated it into English as “Deore”. They passed it onto the American marketing people with an explanation that it means “gold”, as in “palme d’or”. The Americans knew they couldn’t piss off a major client by telling them that Americans don’t by shit based on French art movies so they hit a bar for a brainstorming session. After finishing off a bottle or several of Jagermeister, someone spotted that the bottle had both gold palm leaves (palme d’or), plus a picture of an animal that sounds like deore. When the Japanese office called up the next day to check on progress, they had nothing to show except a picture of a deer on the label they’d lifted from a bottle of booze. The Japanese office liked it, and so history was made.

It’s how you write “d’or” in Japanese

Surely, if you were going to call it d’or you’d call it, you know, d’or, not (instead of using 金) borrow the French d’or translate that the katakana, then bastardise the borrowed French back into (not) English.

Don’t get me wrong that deore doesn’t mean deer, fine, I get that, but your explanation is not the more plausible one of the two.

Also starion being stallion sounds awfully like it’s a racist urban myth based around the stereotypical pronunciation of “r” by the Japanese. You might be right but it’s a bit too *snigger snigger* to sit quite right.

(as an aside, isn’t ィ in your katakana superfluous and making it read deiore? Isn’t it デオーレ? I’ve not done any of this in about 20+ years mind so happy to be wrong)

Oh deer me.

Shimano have a different story

The problem with Shimano’s story is that “deore” doesn’t mean “deer” in Japanese, and deer aren’t regarded as anything prestigious in Japan. It’s a transliteration of “d’or”, which is a prestigious foreign expression in Japan. The deer thing was just invented by marketing people, it’s not the origin of the word (because there’s no way a transliteration of “deer” into Japanese would have an “o” in it.)

Oh deer me.

Yeah, but if any thread was long overdue a derailleurment it has to be this one.

The deer thing was just invented by marketing people

The Deore name was also just invented by marketing people. How they arrived at the name is their story to tell. They could have post rationalised their meaning, for sure, or just be outright lying.

Still, it least it wasn’t just a fishing name they copied across to cycling and then tried to create a new backstory for. HG ?

The deer thing was just invented by marketing people,

You know that’s how all brand names happen don’t you, rather than just ending up with a random SKU.
It’s not like m6000 actually *means* anything.

Also starion being stallion sounds awfully like it’s a racist urban myth based around the stereotypical pronunciation of “r” by the Japanese. You might be right but it’s a bit too *snigger snigger* to sit quite right.

Except that it’s right.

Japanese companies give their products foreign names to make them seem prestigious. Nissan named their sportscar “Fairlady” in Japan based on “My Fair Lady” (it was called the 240Z in English speaking countries). They also had “Bluebird”, “Cedric”, and “Gloria”. The Starion was released in Japan first, intended to be “Stallion”, as in a grown up Colt. “Stalion” and “Starion” would be transcribed into Japanese exactly the same, so when it was back-transcribed for marketing brochures in Japan (to highlight the prestige of an English name), it was called Starion in Japan, which is indistinguishable from “stallion”.

Then they decided to export it and got asked about what “starion” meant. They came up with a lame excuse that it meant “star orion”. Everyone knew the reality, but it was too embarrassing for Mitsubishi to ever publicly admit.

Everyone knew the reality,

Everyone knew the sun orbited the earth for thousands of years.

Whilst it’s not wrong because it’s received wisdom it doesn’t automatically make it right either.

See also it’s named for d’or. Everyone knows its really named after deer.

They came up with a lame excuse that it meant “star orion”.

Did they? Really…? Nothing to do with Arion?

Did they? Really…? Nothing to do with Arion?

No racist trope? I’m out.

The Deore name was also just invented by marketing people.

Yes. Based on the Japanese transliteration of “d’or”. It’s not a transliteration of “deer”. Japanese people call deer “shika”. “Deore” isn’t understood in Japanese as meaning “deer”, that’s a link that Shimano’s marketing department invented.

No racist trope? I’m out.

“L” and “r” are minimal pairs in English, not in Japanese. “Stalion” and “Starion” would be transcribed into Japanese exactly the same. If you have to back transcribe it, it would be a very simple mistake to make, just like how many native English speakers misspell English words.

What does XT mean. Or DX, LX, or…

All made up names for made up groupos.

What does XT mean. Or DX, LX, or…

R7?

Or DX, LX

510
60
Hth

Sorry, I’m not being clear. I know what they are; I’ve still got parts from pretty much all the early 90s mtb groupos (thumbies and all), but the names are just made up, with some form of backronym at most. The only obvious one was XTR, as in XT-Racing or Race.
But my point is it doesn’t matter either way; I was still sad to see the names disappear nonetheless. Much like if Deore ever fully disappeared, which makes very little sense like the name.

Sorry, I’m not being clear

You were. I just wasn’t being helpful. 😉

This week has been a long one!

Anyway…..
Has anyone seen the any availability dates for the rear hubs with cartridge bearings.
Planning to build a new rear wheel and would love a Shimano hub with proper bearings!

@hightensionline I’m sure my 11sp XT cranks say Deore on them in small letters so it won’t go anywhere I don’t think.

Planning to build a new rear wheel and would love a Shimano hub with proper bearings!

I get people hate the cup and cone but they’re what actually makes the hubs so reliable. If you swap them for cartridges will they actually be any good?

Assuming Shimano use standard sized cartridge bearings then yes they will be. Because spares will be readily available.

Assuming Shimano use standard sized cartridge bearings then yes they will be. Because spares will be readily available.

Unlike, of course, standard sized loose bearings.

What? You don’t inspect them for wear?