Goodbye Deore? Hello Shimano CUES!

It does not.

Cheers.

No biggie anyway, my current Shimano-ish 11sp setups are working fine.

🙂

@squirrelking A cues Tues ruse?

That would be news.

@squirrelking @scotroutes very good 😀 ! I need to peruse a dictionary for more ideas or I will have to vamoos(e) from this CUES thread.

Cues website is unhelpful – looks like only the U4000 cranks are listed at the moment, which are Octalink, but there’s an external BB listed in the parts list.

Edit – sorry, talking nonsense, U6000 up as well and these look to be 24mm EBB

Well the core MTB groupset, Deore XT has gone back to 11 speed.

11 speed FTW

Well the core MTB groupset, Deore XT has gone back to 11 speed.

11 speed FTW

Source?

I believe there are now three variants of XT… one is 12 speed and the others are 11 speed. Not confusing at all.

Eurggghhh, not what I had hoped to hear just after ordering a Shimano Sora 9-speed touring bike with a triple! 🙄

At least I opted for disc brakes this time. I do have some spare hubs, derailleurs and levers just in case though and will likely keep my eye out for any discounted parts.

Any views on whether the hubs are going to be front 100mm and rear 135mm OLD compatible for the TC500 / QC500 range?

XT LG was 11 speed last year, and the year before that, if you could buy it that was. Di2 XT has remained 11 speed throughout.

So XT is Still HG+ 12 Speed
XT Di2 is Still HG 11 Speed
XT Linkglide is now called U8000 11 Speed
EP8 XT is both 12 and 11 speed.

And of course there’s whatever updates Shimano brings to XT 12 speed when that is due an update. 13 Speed anyone?

Simples.

The “EP8 XT” is also Linkglide in 11spd. I was leaving out the ebike specific groups. If you include them there are 5 XT variants… three of which are di2, two of which are linkglide, three of which are 11 speed, the other two are 12 speed. What could be simpler? 🫣

Not everyone rides full suspension, moreso at the “affordable” end of the market.

then they can use the front shifting parts that shimano include in most of their group sets.

then they can use the front shifting parts that shimano include in most of their group sets.

Okay, we’ll start form the beginning.

This is a groupset designed from the ground up for the “affordable” end of the market, in particular touring. Do you know what touring drivetrains even look like? I’ll give you a clue, they’re not the same as 1x full suspension trail centre bikes.

This is a groupset designed from the ground up for the “affordable” end of the market, in particular touring. Do you know what touring drivetrains even look like? I’ll give you a clue, they’re not the same as 1x full suspension trail centre bikes.

please calm down. you made the comment that not everyone wants a single ring drivetrain in what came across in a dismissive fashion. shimano have not discontinued the production of multi-ring drive trains, especially at the lower ends of their ranges, while single rings have made suspension bikes better.

as it happens, i have no idea what a touring group set looks like. i don’t tend to see them at trail centres.

What could be simpler? 🫣

🤷🏻‍♂️

please calm down. you made the comment that not everyone wants a single ring drivetrain in what came across in a dismissive fashion.

If that’s the way it came across I apologise, I was just pointing out that a budget groupset will be designed around budget bikes. Nothing more.

Touring setups have multi ring fronts hence the inclusion of such.

If that’s the way it came across I apologise, I was just pointing out that a budget groupset will be designed around budget bikes. Nothing more.

no problem. just so you know, i am familiar with touring group sets. like mtb, but with bar end shifters. i was just being silly

@acidchunks

Well I lol’d

I really love Shimano model names, they are so memorable and intuitive. For example, I just can’t wait to get hold of an RD-U8020.

I really love Shimano model names, they are so memorable and intuitive.

Yep. From what I understand, Deore (D’Or, “Gold”) was originally the high-end groupset. Then Shimano introduced Deore XT at the racing level version of Deore, which was eventually topped by XTR. Before long, there was Deore, Deore LX, Deore XT, and XTR. At some point they decided to drop Deore except for the affordable stuff and renamed LX as SLX. It was still easy enough to match model numbers to names though, XTR was 900 level stuff, XT was 800, and so on. Then they started making stuff that seemed to be Deore level, but could have 500 or 600 series numbers. Now they’re back to calling a whole range of stuff CUES, but it could be XT level, it could be Alivio, it could be 8-speed, or 9-speed, or 10-speed. Just utterly confusing.

Then there’s i-Spec…

The jockey-wheels on the rear mech look a bit wee.

I thought that bigger was better?

The move to cartridge bearings on their hubs looks like a step in the right direction.

It’s interesting that people seem to be conflating cable pull and sprocket pitch.

Nothing they’ve published really discusses what the different cassette spacings will be but I can imagine various reasons why Shimano would either replicate their existing pitches, or simply invent new ones I think we should just see what comes out.

To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one, it’s always varied historically and they’ve changed the amount of cable pulled by the shifter proportionately. That even applies now MTB 11 and 12 are just slightly tweaked increments of Dynasis in terms of cable pull.

To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one

MTB HG 10/11 speed.

To be clear they’ve never had common pitch and just lopped a sprocket off or added one, it’s always varied historically and they’ve changed the amount of cable pulled by the shifter proportionately

I thought 6-8 speed was cross compatible (which I am aware is from the dawn of time, but I’ve still got 8sp XT on the Hybrid of Doom)

MTB HG 10/11 speed.

3.95/3.9mm they’re not identical

Deore (D’Or, “Gold”) was originally the high-end groupset. Then Shimano introduced Deore XT

Some interesting background here…
https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=27

And here…
https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=31

Deore was originally for touring, then adapted into a second-tier MTB groupset.

I had Deore 2 on my 1989 Kili Flyer and it was pretty much the same as my pal’s XT, but possibly more durable (or I was just a less smashy rider).

3.95/3.9mm they’re not identical

Go and measure 0.05mm.

🤓

Nothing they’ve published really discusses what the different cassette spacings will be but I can imagine various reasons why Shimano would either replicate their existing pitches, or simply invent new ones I think we should just see what comes out.

It has been, in the NSMB article it specifically says the cassette pitch will be common across all speeds.

I thought 6-8 speed was cross compatible (which I am aware is from the dawn of time, but I’ve still got 8sp XT on the Hybrid of Doom)

You’re right, it is. It was only when 9 speed came out that they started messing with the pitch.

@chapaking
Thanks for the links. Ok, so Deore XT was always the top tier. I did not know that. One thing about those articles though, Deore was not derived from “deer”, that’s a myth. It came from French “d’or”, meaning “gold.” When it’s written in Japanese katakana characters (used for foreign loanwords), it corresponds to deore in the English alphabet.

Deore was originally for touring, then adapted into a second-tier MTB groupset.

I had Deore 2 on my 1989 Kili Flyer and it was pretty much the same as my pal’s XT, but possibly more durable (or I was just a less smashy rider).

When I was getting into MTB in the mid-90’s, XT and XTR were already established groupsets – the “R” standing for Race. I remember the new STX coming out which pushed the existing LX up and filled the gap between that and the much lower grade Tourney/Altus stuff on entry level bikes.

The word “Deore” was kind of loosely attached to STX and LX before LX got pushed over into touring / trekking bikes (and renamed) and SLX came in for MTBs. ANd then in 2000, “Deore” came in as a MTB groupset in its own right.

I had an SLX groupset on test for Singletrack for a while. That’s probably about as modern as my MTB groupsets ever got! My only MTB now has a mix of old XT and XTR with a Race Face crank! 😳

When can I have a nice 1x 9-42 10spd?

Didn’t Canfield Bros or someone make a wide range cassette/hub based on Shimano’s special small wheel stuff (that I now can’t remember the name of, but had a stepped free hub body)

Deore was not derived from “deer”, that’s a myth. It came from French “d’or”, meaning “gold.”

Original Deore actually had a picture of a deer on it, so if Shimano didn’t want people to think it was named after a deer, they did a bad job.

The word “Deore” was kind of loosely attached to STX and LX before LX got pushed over into touring / trekking bikes (and renamed) and SLX came in for MTBs. ANd then in 2000, “Deore” came in as a MTB groupset in its own right.

the first XT in 1982 was called “deore xt”, and deore as a rear mech (DE10) pre-dated that by a year, so the names been around for 42 years (!)

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/shimano_bicycle_system_components_-_1981_page_34.html

Ok, so Deore came out in 1981, with Deore XT in 1983 and XTR in 1991. The deer thing came later, it wasn’t the origin of the name.

Capturing the zeitgeist, Shimano packaged the later Deores in a box with the famous ‘Deer Head’ logo – and so this derailleur came to be known as the Deore Deer Head. Note, however, that the instructions mention neither mountain biking nor decapitated ruminant mammals – they unequivocally describe the Deore as ‘perfect for touring’.

https://www.disraeligears.co.uk/site/derailleur_brands_beginning_with_s.html

Original Deore actually had a picture of a deer on it,

Nope.

What does the XT bit stand for though?

[ original Deore XT M700 rear mech ]

What does the XT bit stand for though?

Wasn’t it Cross Terrain or something? As in, it could cross all terrain.
XTR was definitely XT-Race.

Or maybe it was literally two random letters that sounded good.🤷

The 1980 Deore didn’t have the deer head on the mech it would seem, but it was on the marketing blurb / logo.

TBH though 5 seconds of google and I find its actually stated on Shimano’s own website that it means Deer. Im probably sticking with Deer in which case.

https://www.shimano.com/en/100th/history/products/result.php?id=27#:~:text=SHIMANO%20DEORE%20was%20introduced%20as,on%20bicycles%20while%20enjoying%20cycling.

Ah nostalgia, it’s not what it used to be…

My first mtb had stx-rc bits on it in 1994. 7 speed. I don’t think that groupset hung around too long though.