Glencoe… an inconvenient truth.

At Nevis Range:
“Do you think you could get our tandem on the lifts?”
“No.” end of conversation.

Given the mounting system and use of gondolas at Ft.Bill, they were probably right

most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s
Any evidence to back that up?

Loving that whitegoodman post! Sounds like an outdoor-sports management consultant, which I hope don’t exist.

I’ve found Nevis Range generally pretty helpful and friendly, and Glencoe the same (apart from the miserable bag that used to sell passes at the booth in the winter). It’s a shame, as contrary to some of the negativity on this thread, Glencoe has a lot to offer snowboarding (IMO), and as part of a joined up approach in the area could be great for mountain biking. I suspect however, there will never be the necessary capital available to do it properly.

PS The SDA track a few years back was brutal and amazing in equal measure.

given that most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s than in winter from the skiing

Any evidence to back that up?

I was just about to ask the same question……

Because it certainly sounds like complete cobblers 😀

most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s

Doubt it, I am sure places like deux alpes and Valnord makes money but, nothing like the winter season.

The only resort I know of that apparently makes more money in summer is Lac Blanc.

I’ve found Nevis Range generally pretty helpful and friendly, and Glencoe the same (apart from the miserable bag that used to sell passes at the booth in the winter)

No comment 😆

In all fairness, Glencoe does have a lot to offer~ I can only hope if nothing else, this has been a wake-up call

Epic post by whitegoodman 🙂

Whitegoodman had a presentation by the team from Whistler Blackcombe in 2007 with costs, details and the number of Alpine resorts converting or due to convert, Whitegoodman worked in the outdoor (wintersports) business back then.

It is classic de seasonalisation all costs already amortised.

In a Scottish context, I believe CairnGorm Mountain makes more money in the summer than in the winter, but this is NOT from MTB. The profit comes from coach groups heading up the funicular at £10 a go to eat (expensive) tea and cakes at the Ptarmigan.

MTB is only viable as an income stream as part of a suite of summer diversification. IMO CGM could build some excellent trails on the Ciste side of the mountain, which also happens to be a great natural spectating ampitheatre. Now they just need a World Cup worthy DH run, and a number of Green/Blue/Red/Black trails (at least 2 of each, or a design that allows for closure for repairs without closing all runs of the grade). More trails means more repeat visits, means more profit.

Refers to self in the third person-internets hero 🙂

Oh well that’s cleared things up. Glencoe and Whistler Blackcombe are virtually identical and directly comparable.

apart from the miserable bag that used to sell passes at the booth in the winter

“It’s 20 quid for the day, take it or leave it no refunds”

Whistler Blackcombe were just the first that’s all, surely even you lot can see the benefit if more slopes open up to us? Why so damned negative all the time?

Whitegoodman had a presentation by the team from Whistler Blackcombe in 2007 with costs, details and the number of Alpine resorts converting or due to convert, Whitegoodman worked in the outdoor (wintersports) business back then.

There is profit to made by ski resorts in summer, no doubt.

But to say….

most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s than in winter from the skiing

….is pure cobblers.

Talking about yourself in the third person won’t change that I’m afraid 😉

Rob McSkimming at the Eastgate? Me too.

IIRC he said that Whistlers income was primarily snowsports, then golf, then MTB. I’d wager a crisp Canadian dollar that the jumps between these are substantial, eh?

Still, agree with the opening line of your third para up there a bit.

That’s the one thegeneralist 😀

wgm, I would love to see it (a genuine uplifted summer season) succeed I can assure you.

Profit does not mean turnover, it means that without the costs of snow management, the increased summer cash volume, lower than it is, makes more money than the higher volume winter turnover. Now if you look at the snow history of Scotland, which trust me is sketchy to say the least, i would have thought they should plough every available resource into attracting MTB’s to their slopes as well as anyone or anything else that would benefit by the cable lifts.

So, most let me qualify and say most big ski resorts that have opened up the slopes and fully catered for bikes are enjoying a more profitable summer season, thanks to the longer daylight hours, the lack of snow management, avalanche patrols, piste grooming etc etc.

Whistler Blackcombe at the time claimed 20 million dollars more summer business, now to tell the truth i wasn’t paying a great deal of attention at the time, all I know, they were pretty excited by it, but then later that year Lehmans crashed.

Ah. So when you said “given that most ski resorts make more profit” you actually meant “given that most ski resorts make more %profit”. Riiiiight…

Whistler MTB park in making more money than it’s skiing counter park shocker!

I’d look at it this way…..Scotland is one of the few places in Britain that you can Ski…..it’s the only place that has dedicated Ski resorts.

There is plenty of mtbing to be had in Britain, a good deal of it is as good if not better than anything that Glencoe would have to offer. I can get to Antur Stiniog for some excellent uplift DH riding in just over 2 hours from mine-I’m unlikely to drive 10 hours or whatever to Glencoe-even if it was better, I doubt whether it would be that much better to justify the trip. I would however make the trip up there to Ski, as it is much better for this purpose than anything nearby.

Tom B was sorely tempted to refer to himself in the third person but mostly resisted, mostly.

whitegoodman

So, ignoring capital repayments (based on these were spent for the ski season) you are just looking at the pure summer operating costs and its associated profit/loss vs the operating costs (and total loss) of not actually operating.

And since the lifts in Glencoe/Nevis have always operated in summer, it would be pretty correct to argue that ANY income from MTB’s is pure profit and draw the conclusion that they should be encouraged.

Brycey – Member

wgm, I would love to see it (a genuine uplifted summer season) succeed I can assure you.

Well, as far as I see it, it’s classic ‘build it and they/we will come’ as far as the OP is concerned it was also noted that there would be increased demand for coaching and guiding skills, it’s one thing letting folk go mountain biking when they restrict themselves to cross country mincing, but the moment they start chucking themselves down real big mountains on Halfords specials they are going to start to die, if they are not coached as to how to ride and what to purchase.

I think you need to visit Whistler, ride it and then decide if it’s worth paying the money, to my mind it is.

Ah so Field Of Dreams is your business plan-you are Jez from Peep Show and I claim my £5 of outdoor pursuit vouchers.

wgm, you’re beginning to confuse me now. Who is it that’s “letting” people go “mincing”, and where is the capital coming from “build I and they will come”, considering the OP has failed to secure £75/day to date?

Brycey – Member
Ah. So when you said “given that most ski resorts make more profit” you actually meant “given that most ski resorts make more %profit”. Riiiiight…

Lots of ski resorts run at a loss, they get run by local authorities inefficiently, they suffer from high overheads geared to maximum snowfall and recently have suffered reducing snowfall, three clear years passed in Scotland one time with no snow for instance.

Other businesses, hotels, shops, airports, transfers etc all benefit by the added summer traffic, since at the moment they’re costings are still geared to winter seasonality.

You don’t need Snow to downhill bike, it really is a no brainer.

But it does depend of course on the quality of the trails and bike park, so the actions of the OP are to be encouraged, not **** off they way he so clearly has been.

Brycey – Member
wgm, you’re beginning to confuse me now. Who is it that’s “letting” people go “mincing”, and where is the capital coming from “build I and they will come”, considering the OP has failed to secure £75/day to date?

I’m sorry, are there not two parties here, that should be talking positively together so that we, instead of arguing the toss for the sake of sport, could look forward to another trail to ride this summer?

If I’m coming across as all dictatorial then i apologise, I spend a lot of time trying to convince financial types to get behind this sort of thing, er but I don’t recommend mincing to them. 😉

wgm I’m bowing out. You’re changing course like a crisp packet in the wind.

For many reasons listed on this thread I don’t see anywhere in Scotland being the new Whistler any time soon. Luckily, instead, there is absolutely incredible non-lifted riding all over the place.

most big ski resorts that have opened up the slopes and fully catered for bikes are enjoying a more profitable summer season

“More profitable” than what ?

If you are saying that the summer is more profitable than without Mountain Biking, then yes I would agree.

If you are saying its more profitable than the Winter Season, then I’m calling cobblers on that one (again)

nealglover – Member

If you are saying its more profitable than the Winter Season, then I’m calling cobblers on that one (again)

And other than big hitting your qualification to make that call is what exactly?

three clear years passed in Scotland one time with no snow for instance.
Evidence please.

I spend a lot of time trying to convince financial types to get behind this sort of thing,

Perhaps there are good reasons behind their reluctance?

>three clear years passed in Scotland one time with no snow for instance.<

Whoops – I’ve been skiing in Scotland for >30 years and I can’t remember when that was.

So, go on, enlighten me.

Tom B – Member

I can get to Antur Stiniog for some excellent uplift DH riding in just over 2 hours from mine-I’m unlikely to drive 10 hours or whatever to Glencoe

Probably worth mentioning that when this project all started, there was no antur stiniog. I think it’s been a genuine gamechanger, first vehicle uplift I can think of that can compete directly with the chairlifts (Nevis is still better mind) and a great start on teh trails. Superb work all round.

But Glencoe IMO shouldn’t be seen as a standalone, it’s close to Nevis (well, relatively 😉 ) and the 2 complement each other.

I think it’s that three clear years are going to pass in Scotland with no snow. This is plainly some of the bad news foretold by wgms clairvoyant.

And other than big hitting your qualification to make that call is what exactly?

So you are just going to insult me rather than demonstrating some truth in all these claims you are making ?

Fair enough.

I’ll just presume you can’t back up what you are saying then.

nealglover – Member
And other than big hitting your qualification to make that call is what exactly?
So you are just going to insult me rather than demonstrating some truth in all these claims you are making ?

Fair enough.

I’ll just presume you can’t back up what you are saying then.

It costs money to know what I know son and you can’t afford it.. 😉

theblackmount – Member
>three clear years passed in Scotland one time with no snow for instance.<

Whoops – I’ve been skiing in Scotland for >30 years and I can’t remember when that was.

So, go on, enlighten me.

Go and ask Brian Stark from Boardwise, he’ll remember.

Go and ask Brian Stark from Boardwise, he’ll remember.
He doesn’t appear to be on here making a tit of himself, you’ll have to do…

It costs money to know what I know son and you can’t afford it.

You are Gareth Cheeseman and I claim my £5 pounds.

It costs money to know what I know son and you can’t afford it..

Sorry Dad 🙄

I should know not to ask awkward questions when you are making stuff up to sound impressive.

So….. Seeing as you are refusing to back up your claims about summer being more profitable than winter for ski resorts, (not even posting dubious YouTube videos for evidence)

how about telling us, when were these 3 straight years when there was no snow in Scotland ?