Glencoe… an inconvenient truth.

Big mountain Scotland > sounds like you put in a
bloody big effort despite some difficult conditions

It’s a shame to hear about this as glen Coe comes
over as a chilled / cool / friendly place in ski
circles ….

Guess ill be sticking to my local resort !!

Sounds like you need to flog your bike and hire a lawyer and probably a shrink while you’re at it. Bleating on the Singletrack Forum isn’t going to get you anywhere. IMHO. Even when I used to ski many years ago I would drive straight past Glencoe and on to the Nevis range. Can’t think why I’d want to do any different for MTB unless it was something special. Pure dead fantasy big man. Time to move on.

Having had a season pass there the winter before and taken part in the coe cup, I was highly impressed by the overall vibe and glad to promote the place… who knows, maybe it was simply taxing times with delays from the previous winters storms and nerves from the gamble they took with accommodation… maybe a case of right place, wrong time.

The failed promises, misunderstandings and departmental differences I can forgive… after all, no one is perfect, but refusing to pay after all I did is sickening.

As for you Tommygun… are you by any chance a samaritan 😀 ?

Sorry it’s taken so long to post a response Tom. Wasn’t sure whether to or not as felt it may just fan the flames of whatever injustice you feel you have been dealt but you make some pretty serious accusations against our staff (none of whom own a SAAB by the way) which I felt needed defended.

For those interested I spoke with Tom in the Spring of 2012 about him running a guiding and coaching business from the centre. We agreed a rent of £75 per week to cover renting the large office (this included telephone and electricity). Initially business was very quiet for Tom as he was just developing his business so we came to an agreement that he could work on the track (using our tools and equipment) for 1 day a week to cover his rent. A few weeks later we agreed that he could work more days while he was quiet and bank these for later in the year when he expected to be busier. At this stage and at other stages throughout the summer we made it very clear that we were not in a position to pay for any extra work carried out. In fact I had numerous conversations with Tom to try and direct him to spend time marketing and looking for clients rather than working on the track something that never happened. We did what we could to help him find clients through providing links on our website and promoting his business through Facebook and this certainly bore some fruit for him later in the summer.
Tom was unfortunately made homeless during the summer and we allowed him to stay onsite for what was meant to be a short period while he got himself sorted out. Unfortunately this short period turned into months and eventually we had to ask him to leave just before the start of the ski season so that we could get the office set up for ski school. No rent or payment of any sort was requested from Tom during this period for staying onsite as we were trying to help him back on his feet.
On the work that Tom did on the track we were delighted with it and those of you that got a chance to ride it will have seen the effort and commitment he put in which we massively appreciated. However the original brief was always that we had to be able to get the ATV vehicle up the track for emergency rider evacuation and in most cases Tom achieved this however in some instances features were built that caused problems for vehicle access. This did cause some stress with our staff who couldn’t get up the hill and in a number of instances re-building of features to allow vehicles up had to be carried out.

The great news this year is that the digger has now been down to deepen drainage ditches and repair erosion from the winter and the SDA, Glencoe staff and volunteers have been working hard on the track for the last 2 weeks to tidy up after the digger and build new features.

Sorry this post is almost as long as Tom’s but to summarise, we do not owe Tom any money, we supported him and his new business last year as best we could and his description of our staff is certainly not one that I or our many thousand customers and partners would recognise. Tom it is unfortunate that you have chosen to air “your story” in such a public manner as I had hoped that we could continue to work together again this year to turn Glencoe into the great biking venue that I know it can be.

So, to summarise, basically there is no future in the red dh whatsover, as it will always be potentially an access road? Or have I read that wrong?.

Hopefully a huge future in it but also a big challenge developing a great bike track on a pretty rugged bit of hill while providing a safe ATV evacuation route for injured riders. After lot’s of trial and error and with the best brains from the SDA on the case we are now sure we are moving in the right direction.

SDA will be riding it next weekend, let’s see what the riders say about it!!!

Oof just in time for lunch 🙂

Certainly there is some truth in what Andy is saying, however, it was not agreed that it would be one day a week~ can you imagine just how pathetic progress would’ve been if we’d agreed to that?

What’s more, I clearly remember Andy saying if I were to accrue more days than the rent of the office, he could look into putting me on the payroll, though in fairness, he did mention this was not the preferred outcome. At this time, I stated I didn’t want to take the piss, so when I finally tallied up my days, I took 10 off (i.e. £750) as goodwill and offered several payment options.

In the end, we did agree that it would pay this sesaons rent, but I think it’s fairly obvious why I’m not returning.

Lets have a quick look at things that were originally proposed and agreed:

Red track finished, with berms and rollers built by engineering team by May

Pump track next to carpark in time for 2012 Macavalanche, once again built by engineering team

Cliffy lift open for Big Mountain Tours by June

I could go on…

i want to know abou the threatening chap in the saab. The rest is just trimmings.

Sounds an awful shame and a lost opportunity for both sides, as well as the potential users.
Maybe sitting down with a third party with slightly less interest to go through the issues, and try and work out a solution might be worth a go. Obviously both of you seem to have put a fair bit of effort into this in your various ways, and it would be a shame to see it go to waste.

it’s a beautiful place.

webcam this morning:

maybe you need some sunny yellow filters over the webcams?

So it’s just the engineering team who are a bunch of ****s?
A decent, challenging bike trail does not make a very good access road for an ATV. It’ll be one or the other, not both. Rethink and start again.

he could look into putting me on the payroll

So he was to look into it then, never actually agreeing to put you on the payroll?

So he was to look into it then, never actually agreeing to put you on the payroll?

Interpret that how you see fit…

Best thing that could happen is that the Mods delete this post, and the two guys agree to differ.

As for you Tommygun… are you by any chance a samaritan ?

😆

Two sides to every story…

Lets have a quick look at things that were originally proposed and agreed:

Red track finished, with berms and rollers built by engineering team by May

Pump track next to carpark in time for 2012 Macavalanche, once again built by engineering team

Cliffy lift open for Big Mountain Tours by June

I could go on…

Response from Andy on this would be nice…

Did I imagine it, or was there a “Thread Closed” on this one a few minutes ago?

holy unlocked locked thread, batman!

Bizzare way of dealing with it but I’ve just gone to get a coffee from the machine and I have a single chorley cake left in my desk.

I’m ready now so please continue but I’d like a request for more information on the heavy in the Saab.

The heavy in the Saab could be purely coincidental~ I have no hard evidence linking that incident to the resort; however, given the events of the day, the body language of certain people the next day and the fact that sometime later, I saw the same car parked in Caol, where many of the resorts management live, I’m trusting my instincts on this one.

For the record, I don’t think Andy had anything to do with this.

Aye – but think of the click-count.

>Even when I used to ski many years ago I would drive straight past Glencoe and on to the Nevis range.<

How very weird 😉

If I were the OP, I wouldn’t have rested until I’d figured out who the Saab belonged to; completely unexpected aggression such as he describes is very unlikely to be coincidental. It’s like something from the Wild West. Blimey.

Did I imagine it, or was there a “Thread Closed”

Good question

It was reopened as both sides of the argument have been behaving reasonably and also because the issue of trail facilities and their management is clearly a relevant issue for mountain bikers. However, the behaviour of other contributors who seem to think it’s a suitable topic to degrade with their comments are likely to be the reason for any future thread closure.

If you have anything relevant and helpful to add to the debate then please do so. If you don’t then please sit back and by all means read on.

Are you……

I reckon the usual tedious xenophobic “humour” will get this otherwise interesting thread closed again, bland (see Mark’s comment).

It was merely a question!

But I’ll remove it to keep the peace and in fairness didnt read past half way on page 1

I went to the police and tried to explain the situation, but was a bit confused about the digits of the number plate, so didn’t really get anywhere

sometime later, I saw the same car parked in Caol

I presume, when you saw the “same” car parked, you confirmed this (to yourself) with reference to it having a reg. no. very similar to the one you incorrectly noted at the time of the incident. If that is the case, why didn’t you go back to Plod with this information?

It was definitely the same car… parked in Caol shopping centre, where my car was also parked: the driver (who I recognized) got in, reversed out and drove off without noticing me.

In hindsight, I should’ve gone to Plod, as I did now have the correct number, but at the time, I was with my parents, whom I didn’t want to worry.

hmmm, think nobeer has a point, if you are going to do this seriously, you need a separate road for your atv’s that’s not part of the red.
why would anybody waste fuel to come to the track, if its potentially just been wrecked by an atv for whatever reason.

as for the current red situation, once the sda roadshow has been and gone this weekend, who is managing the repairs and development for afters.

oh, and from experience, some of your staff’s attitude does actually suck.

having said that, good luck anyway, i thinks to make it pay, you will need it

Seems to me both parties have missed a great opportunity, given that most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s than in winter from the skiing, due to the heavy cost of snow management and the fact the equipment costs have already been taken into account.

Sounds like the Engineering ‘team’ need to be brought up to speed on the business benefits and if necessary incentivised to make it happen, teaching some of them to ride might not be a bad thing, in this day and age there is no room for negative workplace politics especially with the huge pool of would be workers that would replace them at the drop of a hat.

I think it was a mistake for the OP to expose this to the scrutiny of folk on here and my counsell would be for one last go at reconciliation and get this removed, it serves none of us well, other than maybe the click rate of STW towers. having said that i had no idea they had even opened Glencoe to bikes so i guess there is no such thing as bad publicity, if they do get their act together and build on last years progress.

Talk to anyone in the outdoor world about business generally last year being the worse year in living memory so not exactly a bellwether season.

fisgard – Member

oh, and from experience, some of your staff’s attitude does actually suck.

+1. Nevis range staff aren’t always the most welcoming but at least they’re not actual ****s.

most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s

LOL!

Most resorts make so little money from MTBs in the summer that local businesses have to front-up cash to the lift operators to get them to open at all.

Always two sides, and I’m going to sit well on the fence.
All I will say is Tom is a genuinely committed guy, which was obvious from the Hot Diggity weekend (still one of the best weekends EVER). Andy equally keen to make the most of what the difficult Glencoe landscape has to offer and make Glencoe financially viable.
And we found the staff really great.
At Nevis Range:
“Do you think you could get our tandem on the lifts?”
“No.” end of conversation.

At Glencoe the same day as we passed on the way home:
“Do you think you could get our tandem on the lifts?”
“Erm, never tried, but we’ll sure as hell have a go”.
And they did, and it worked, even stopping the lift at the bottom to check the balance, and again at the top and helping get Nancy off. And the rest is Glencoe history.

Such a shame its not worked out for everyone. Yes GC isn’t Nevis, and as I understand it won’t get the funding that Nevis does, but both times we were there with the bikes the vibe was great.

Fingers crossed everything gets smoothed out.
Rob

whitegoodman – Member
Seems to me both parties have missed a great opportunity, given that most ski resorts make more profit in the summer from MTB’s than in winter from the skiing, due to the heavy cost of snow management and the fact the equipment costs have already been taken into account.

Sounds like the Engineering ‘team’ need to be brought up to speed on the business benefits and if necessary incentivised to make it happen, teaching some of them to ride might not be a bad thing, in this day and age there is no room for negative workplace politics especially with the huge pool of would be workers that would replace them at the drop of a hat.

I think it was a mistake for the OP to expose this to the scrutiny of folk on here and my counsell would be for one last go at reconciliation and get this removed, it serves none of us well, other than maybe the click rate of STW towers. having said that i had no idea they had even opened Glencoe to bikes so i guess there is no such thing as bad publicity, if they do get their act together and build on last years progress.

Talk to anyone in the outdoor world about business generally last year being the worse year in living memory so not exactly a bellwether season.

STW in one paragraph. Someone who didn’t even know there were trails at Glencoe, but will offer an opinion anyway!. 😉