Gaza

This is an extract from Reagans diary’s regarding the Israelis bombing of Beirut back in 1982,

Thursday, August 12, 1982
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Met with the news the Israelis delivered the most devastating bomb & artillery attack on W. Beirut lasting 14 hours. Habib cabled—desperate—has basic agreement from all parties but cant arrange details of P.L.O. withdrawal because of the barrage. King Fahd called begging me to do something. I told him I was calling P.M. Begin immediately. And I did—I was angry. I told him it had to stop or our entire future relationship was endangered. I used the word holocaust deliberately & said the symbol of his war was becoming a picture of a 7 month old baby with it’s arms blown off. He told me he had ordered the bombing stopped—I asked about the artillery fire. He claimed the P.L.O. had started that & Israeli forces had taken casualties. End of call. Twenty mins. later he called to tell me he’d ordered an end to the barrage and plead for our continued friendship. Spent rest of day meeting with Congressmen on Tax bill.

there are no good guys on either side.

So the tens of thousands of dead women and children in Gaza – were they “bad guys” as well ?

Remember the good old days when Reagan was the worst US President you could imagine ?

According to state-controlled pollsters

No not at all. According to Levada. And according to the LSE blog : “The most reputable public opinion data available in Russia are from the Levada Center, a non-governmental research organisation conducting regular surveys since 1988”

https://www.intellinews.com/putin-s-approval-rating-ends-2022-at-81-boosted-by-support-for-the-war-in-ukraine-265628/

It is a separate topic altogether but you would need to be very naive to believe that Putin doesn’t enjoy overwhelming public support. For whatever reasons Putin’s personal approval ratings are far greater than Western leaders, and always have been.

People, and society as a whole, can overwhelmingly support violent regimes and the lies that they propagate. It happens. If you don’t like the Russian example then focus on the the pre-1945 militarist-fascist Japanese regime or the German one of a similar period, both enjoyed massive public support.

There was of course nothing inherently wrong with Germans and Japanese, it was a case of far-right fascism corrupting the minds of the people through lies and profound racism, a similar situation to zionism today.

Remember the good old days when Reagan was the worst US President you could imagine ?

Well……..he did help to usher in neoliberalism so there’s that to hold against his administration…….. 😉

So the tens of thousands of dead women and children in Gaza

Don’t be obtuse, you know I didn’t mean the civilians, or for that matter many of the combatants. The leadership of all the factions and the people supporting them were the bad guys I was referring to. They are the ones ordering the attacks and actively avoiding any attempts to start the long process of reconciliation and peace. Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah, all led by war mongering bad guys with no desire to bring peace to the region.

Israel, Hamas and Hezbollah, all led by war mongering bad guys with no desire to bring peace to the region.

That remains to be seen. My belief is that if Israel agreed a just peace with the Palestinians then Hamas and Hezbollah wouldn’t get volunteers to stuff envelopes, let alone pick up a gun. Worth a try – for anyone who really wants peace?

There was of course nothing inherently wrong with Germans and Japanese, it was a case of far-right fascism corrupting the minds of the people through lies and profound racism, a similar situation to zionism today.

A similar story in Rwanda. It’s not credible that the Hutu were inherently evil, and yet they were perverted by “hasbara” radio broadcasts.

This is a brilliant well-written opinion piece written by a Canadian I believe:

The peace appeals of Israel’s Western enablers are a cynical charade

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2024/9/28/the-peace-appeals-of-israels-western-enablers-are-a-cynical-charade

It’s all excellent imo but my favourite bit is this :

“The West’s defining Middle East doctrine: Kill first, think later”

It is so true. Just look at Iraq for example……. after the West’s slaughter of countless Iraqis (they refused to count them) which is the major foreign power in Iraq today? Yup, it’s Iran. So that went well. And it extends beyond the Middle East…….. after the slaughter of countless Afghans with the aim of defeating the Taliban who’s in control of Afghanistan today? Yup, the Taliban.

So it is today that the West, which of course includes Israeli colonialists, are slaughtering the indigenous peoples of the Middle East. That is the only plan, what happens afterwards is anybody’s guess.

they’ve attacked Yemen now

Is anyone still suggesting on here that Israel is facing an existential threat?

They don’t appear to be on the ropes from what I can see.

Is anyone still suggesting on here that Israel is facing an existential threat?

Absolutely they are imo. But it obviously won’t be from a militarily superior power. It will be because what they are doing is not sustainable, the threat is from within. Israel is frankly screwed. Hence it is behaving the way it is.

Well Hezbollah have a new leader:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hashim_Safi_Al_Din

According to state-controlled pollsters

No not at all. According to Levada. And according to the LSE blog : “The most reputable public opinion data available in Russia are from the Levada Center, a non-governmental research organisation conducting regular surveys since 1988”

Don’t confuse “the most reputable public opinion data” with current independence; the Levada Centre has changed massively since 1988.

In 2013 the BBC reported that, “In a statement, Levada Centre head Lev Gudkov said prosecutors had not only threatened the organisation with sanctions but had undermined its authority. The warning puts the Yuri Levada Analytical Centre in an extremely difficult position, in effect forcing it to cease its activity as an independent sociological research organisation, carrying out systematic polls of public opinion in Russia,” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22599321

It has since become fully state funded.

We digress…

Your 11 year old link makes no claim that Levada is state funded but as you say we digress, if you want to kid yourself that Putin doesn’t enjoy the support of the majority of Russians then that’s up to you, there are plenty of other examples of people supporting the violent and often completely illegal behaviour of their governments.

Israel being an obvious and current example.

Your 11 year old link makes no claim that Levada is state funded but as you say we digress…

It wouldn’t, I quite clearly said, “It has since become fully state funded.”

…if you want to kid yourself that Putin doesn’t enjoy the support of the majority of Russians then that’s up to you,

“45 percent of respondents named the Russian president among the politicians they trust.” 3% lower than in July and the lowest since October 2023 and that’s in an autocracy where citizens won’t generally express open opinions. https://www.newsweek.com/russian-trust-putin-levada-center-poll-kursk-incursion-1946625

I quite clearly said, “It has since become fully state funded.”

Yes and your above link quite clearly says:

Russia’s Levada Center, an independent research organization based in Moscow.

So yes, after Ukraine’s incursion into the Kursk region “trust” in Putin fell to 45%, apparently the lowest ever recorded.

What has that got to do with whether the majority of Russians support the war in Ukraine and what has that got to do with Israel?

Are you suggesting that the majority of Israelis do not support the slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, and now increasingly in the West Bank?

And down into the spiral we go… this is how the thread became the Ernie and DrJ show for a period and you fell out with one another even then 🙂

I know it is impossible to defend Israel’s slaughter of men, women, and children, by the tens of thousands, and the destruction of their homes, schools, hospitals, and universities, but let’s stick to the topic which is ‘Gaza’

Check out this YT for a view from Israel:

‘The Looming Catastrophe in the Middle East (with Gideon Levy) Chris Hedges Report’

I can’t provide the link as I only have a limited gadget and am in foreign parts

“Looming” ?

Edit : Ah, I’ve just seen….. It refers to the “looming catastrophe” for Israel. Yup, I couldn’t agree more.

Is anyone still suggesting on here that Israel is facing an existential threat?

Absolutely. It might look like they are in control for now but the actions they’ve taken in the past 12 months will reverberate for decades. From this point forward Israel will be a country under siege. They will spend the next 30 years with a target on their back and will face political and cultural isolation on the world stage. If Israelis currently feel like the rest of the world hates them, they’re going to have to get used to that and live with it for a very long time.

They will spend the next 30 years with a target on their back and will face political and cultural isolation on the world stage.

You are taking a very optimistic view of the situation, Gen Brik takes a rather more pessimistic view:

Israel Will Collapse Within a Year if the War of Attrition Against Hamas and Hezbollah Continues

https://archive.li/2024.08.22-095406/https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-08-22/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israel-will-collapse-within-a-year-if-the-war-against-hamas-and-hezbollah-continues/00000191-795e-d8d0-a7bb-f9ff81000000

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/Yd8uhR9PYcU3uuLU/?mibextid=WC7FNe

Another speech by Gideon Levy. I’m sure if someone else said what he says they’d be called “antisemitic”.

James Elder at the “WTAF are you doing” stage of anger and bewilderment over Gaza

Israel are now trolling us, below taken from CNN

Israel says its operation aims to stop Hezbollah’s violations of a key UN resolution
From CNN’s Ivana Kottasová
Hezbollah’s attempts to “infiltrate Israel” from the north, in violation of a 2006 United Nations resolution, are among the reasons for the “limited” ground operation Israel launched into Lebanon overnight, an Israeli security official said.

Speaking to reporters on Tuesday, the official argued that Hezbollah has been violating the 2006 UN Security Council Resolution 1701, which calls for a permanent ceasefire and an end to hostilities between Hezbollah and Israel

the reasons for the “limited” ground operation

Have a look 3.40sec into this video which is a couple of days old, Gideon Levy predicts the language used by the Israelis concerning a “limited” ground operation.

the reasons for the “limited” ground operation

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The above about settlements looks like a complete false flag, and does no good in this current climate, just websites and so on feeding off the whole nightmare going on in Lebanon, Gaza the West Bank and Israel.

The above about settlements looks like a complete false flag

Yes, of course – because there’s no history at all of Israel establising settlements on illegally occupied land. This specific website may be fake, or it may not, but it’s not exactly unprecedented for such activity to occur.

The above about settlements looks like a complete false flag, and does no good in this current climate, just websites and so on feeding off the whole nightmare going on in Lebanon, Gaza the West Bank and Israel.

So you believe that the world famous Jerusalem Post is deliberately stirring the shit with regards to the whole Lebanon, Gaza the West Bank nightmare with this article?

Israeli Rabbi calls for Israel to conquer Lebanon and settle it

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-821752

All Israeli colonial settlements in Occupied Palestine are illegal under the Fourth Geneva Convention. Some are also illegal under Israeli law and are not officially recognised. But the IDF and Israeli apartheid government rarely does anything about them.

You would need to be very naive and ignorant of the horrors committed by Israeli colonial-settler mentality if you believe that there is no desire by any to settle in newly occupied land, and their ability to get away with it.

More here from an American Jewish publication founded in 1946 :

Inside the Movement to Settle Southern Lebanon

https://jewishcurrents.org/inside-the-movement-to-settle-southern-lebanon-uri-tzafon-israel

Building on the successes of the Israeli settler movement, a new ultra-right group is seeking to open yet another front for conquest.

Note in the above link the reference to “the successes of the Israeli settler movement” ?

Here is more detail of their successes :

Extremist settlers rapidly seizing West Bank land

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c207j6wy332o

.

 

“the BBC World Service has seen documents showing that organisations with close ties to the Israeli government have provided money and land used to establish new illegal outposts”

People really need to educate themselves about the horrors of zionism.

It looks like Iran’s policy of restraint is about to get ditched and Netanyahu will get the full-scale war which he has been desperate for and which will draw in the US, the UK, and France.

US says Iran is preparing missile attack on Israel

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c9dyxxgxv1jo

If they are determined to Iran and Hezbollah combined can easily overwhelm Israeli air defences and hit targets such as Tel Aviv. We could be about to witness the greatest conflict since WW2

which will draw in the US, the UK, and France.

Keir Starmer will be relieved.

ernielynch : If they are determined to Iran and Hezbollah combined can easily overwhelm Israeli air defences and hit targets such as Tel Aviv. We could be about to witness the greatest conflict since WW2

Iran knows it will be pummelled if it strikes without warning so I hope there has been back channel discussion regarding the possible strikes and they’ll be shot down In plenty of time, Iran needs to save face so I imagine the strike(s) will be the equivalent of me letting my neighbour know that I’ll be tossing a rock into his garden at a specified time so he can ensure that his yappy dog doesn’t get sconed on the head

So you believe that the world famous Jerusalem Post is deliberately stirring the shit with regards to the whole Lebanon, Gaza the West Bank nightmare with this article?

I’m saying the adverts for houses for sale is a false flag, they’ve not even invaded the area yet, let alone demilled it, bringing in the builders would be a long way away before the brochures are finished!

I’m saying the adverts for houses for sale is a false flag

What does that actually mean?

Iran needs to save face

Or maybe Iran just doesn’t want to set the region on fire to save the political career of one corrupt politician.

I’m saying the adverts for houses for sale is a false flag

If I had a quid for every time someone used the phrase ‘false flag’ on here I’d be able to retire. It’s such a lazy phrase. Don’t agree or like something that is reported in the news? False flag. Don’t want to believe something is happening? False flag. Don’t want to accept that the side you’re supporting isn’t doing as well as you want? False flag. Yes, there are people in the world who want to mislead you and misrepresent stuff, but not everything you read in the news, see on tv or read on the internet is the result of some sort of conspiracy. Most of it is just shit that happens, so maybe try to accept it at face value?