Gas supply maintenance- Rights regards work in my property?

Been a lot of gas pipes replaced in our area recently, seems we must have been missed off the household letters as been told this week they are needing access to our house next week for major upgrades to our supply. They came in today to inspect (apparently should have happened weeks ago), cue lots of sucking through teeth about the complexity of our job, talking about moving gas meters, digging up the garden, perhaps having to run new pipes across walls was they may struggle to get under the floor.

Aside from the frustration that they should have told us weeks ago rather than a couple of days warning of digging up the garden and house, I’m concerned that despite their claims that “we put it all back after”, we’ll end up with a crap looking job. What rights do I have to demand it’s done in a way that everything looks as it did before? I don’t particularly want gas pipes visible running across the wall in some of the rooms, and we have period features of the property both inside and out that I don’t want them smashing through and not putting back as they were.

I’ve no issues with them upgrading the supply if needed,just want it done with minimum impact on our property. I can’t seem to find anything referring to what rights the home owner has in a situation like this?

Everything your side of the meter is yours. They have no rights as such to move any of that, and I can’t see why they would need to.

From experience of working in customers home who have been upgraded, the utilities words, they will do the job, but will not lift floorboards or dig concrete floors, pipes will be visible, along with an outside utility meter box, unless you live on a teraced street, then it will be inside against an inside wall.

1, house had garden dug up for replacement HDPE pipe for water, pipe went in next to front door with stop tap behind front door, front door wouldnt open fully back then, and , new furniture delivery chaps almost snapped stop tap off.

2, gas board, pipe routed from front of house down side, and round the back and then in, meter box on outside at front,pipe then sent along skirting board, to gas fire due to leak detected on old pipe.

3,terraced house,new gas pipe to meter,meter put above front door,inside.

4, gas meter installed in box outside on side of house,lady then couldnt get her car out past the box,contractor came back and removed meter box, lady moved car and meter box put back.

Meter must be at entry of pipe into house so it cant be bypased inside

Oh and dependant where the boiler/cooker is away from the new meter, they may well need to install a larger diameter pipe, and will check all appliances pipework for leaks, if they find a leak on an appliance they will cut off the gas till repaired by a gas safe registered fitter.

Plenty of biscuits tea and coffee all helps keep us workers happy.

Insist on the details of what they plan to do in writing

Don’t let them do anything your not happy with

Use the complaints process, especially the written one
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/complain-about-your-gas-or-electricity-bill-or-supplier

We had the electric guys do some digging. They didn’t do a great job of putting stuff back where it was but did do a few extra things for me while the guy had the mini digger. All in all it worked out pretty well for me but I’m not convinced they’d have done much tidying up if I hadn’t been there.

Take a bunch of photos to document the condition of the house before they begin any work!!!

Ours was done and looks pretty much them same. One of the neighbors had an unsightly repair to their concrete drive. They must have complained as a few months later the same contractors came.back and refinished it with tarmac.

Thanks for the advice. Anyone know what my rights are if I refuse to let them do the work like they want to. Specifically they say they will possibly want to run a pipe along the wall in the hall, rather than under the floor where the current pipe is. There’s no way I want a gas pipe on the wall! Can we refuse, if so then what?

I know it’s a bit of effort but could you pull the boards yourself so they have easy access, and therefore one less excuse to do the work?

I had my meter replaced, it’s in a really weird place, at the far end of a converted garage above an old window. I asked them to move it whilst they were replacing so I could potential open the old window into a doorway, they refused to touch the original supply pipe. So I still have a random meter above a door way in a room, with no nice way to box in.

Where’s your meter currently? Which pipe work is at fault?
No “gas fitter” will put a new pipe under a floor void for starters so that’s not going to happen however you kick off. I can’t see the issue of just bringing in a new mdpe service and reconnecting the existing meter?

Why won’t they put a new pipe in a floor void?

Where’s your meter currently? Which pipe work is at fault?
No “gas fitter” will put a new pipe under a floor void for starters so that’s not going to happen however you kick off. I can’t see the issue of just bringing in a new mdpe service and reconnecting the existing meter?

It’s in a cupboard in the middle of the house, which is apparently the issue. Their first choice is to run a new plastic pipe inside the existing pipe, but think it’s unlikely to work due to bends in the pipe. That then means having to run completely new pipes to it, which they want to put against the wall rather than under the floor.

We had ours done, same issue as yours – bends in the pipe prevented them from blowing the plastic pip through the old one. Strangely, next door was fine…

Ended up having a massive* meter box in the porch, with some pipe exposed, then they ran copper through the wall, under the floor and connected up into the cupboard where the meter used to live. It was pretty easy for them to fish the pipe up from the subfloor as there’s a small access hole in there.

I got the impression that they wanted to make everything look nice, but they wouldn’t go out of their way.  You get a chance to sign off on the work, so you can refuse to sign if they’ve left a mess.

* I’m assured it’s “normal” sized.

They couldn’t feed the new pipe through our old one either. Fortunately the meter was on an outside wall so they dug a trench to its location and then drilled through the wall just above ground level. Our drive is gravelled so that went back absolutely fine. We now have an extra bit of pipe on the outside however we already had a massive one going from the meter to the boiler in the loft via the external wall so makes little difference.

Somehow I doubt your going to get much say in where they put their pipe.

No “gas fitter” will put a new pipe under a floor void

It has to be “adequately ventilated”, IANAGF but no doubt there are industry standards which can be followed, and make the job several times harder :)

Presumably if they don’t do the work you don’t get connected to the new supply and when they turn the old pipe off you have no gas. Wouldn’t be surprised if you are then treated as a “new supply” when trying to get it fixed with costs and waiting times accordingly. If there is a safety issue (which is pretty much their call) they will get a warrant fairly easily to access your premises if you refuse them access. Outside gas meters are more convenient for many reasons if that is an option – then you can always pay your own GasSafe fitter to do a neat job of connecting to the existing pipe work.

and will check all appliances pipework for leaks, if they find a leak on an appliance they will cut off the gas till repaired by a gas safe registered fitter.

This happened to us. We had a leaky pipe under the drive (their side of the meter) which they came out to dig up and repair. They then checked all the appliances in the house and condemned the (old) cooker :-(

I did persuade the fella to move the meter to a more convenient spot in the garage though, for the price of aforementioned tea and biscuits :-)

Yes it has to be ventilated if low pressure, if its a medium pressure servive coming in prior to the meter then I’m sure it’s a no no in the void, that all depends on the main in the street. I am also not a gas fitter but a mere builder. How about running the gas pipe externally? That’s what I did with mine to fees the new boiler in the loft.

my supply pipe comes out of the old garage concrete floor so definitely no way it is ventilated – then it has a probably 2.5m vertical rise until the meter

the gas fitter guy didn’t mention this was a concern – though did say it was a very odd place for a meter… he wouldn’t even cut the supply pipe shorter to put the meter at low level so it could be boxed in neatly

outside would have actually been better for us

DT, the issue arrises with floor voids, as in an a suspended timber floor. Potentially the void can fill with gas without detection then boom, we have the same issues with entries through cavity walls, the feed from the meter box has to be sleeved and sealed through the cavity, you can only do this with a low pressure service though, if medium pressure you can not use the cut out in the back of the meter box.

Ours was done a few months ago. They gave all the worst case options, then just hammered the new plastic pipe up the old cast iron one. Took a bit of boiling water to coax it round the last bend but it worked. Quite disappointing in a way as the gravel on the drive could do with topping up!

Things have got a bit confusing here.

Pipework from a meter can be run in a floor void, see Gas Safe TB113 for clarification if you need.

Pipework supplying a meter comes under different regulations but I strongly suspect that it cannot be run internally these days. Certainly you are not allowed to bring the yellow MDPE pipework into a building, although you may be able to put it in a fire proof sleeve but I’m not sure. Exposed MDPE in a building is a run away situation…….

What I suspect they will do is fit the meter externally and then run a new supply from the meter to connect to your existing pipework internally. They will probably take the easiest route though.

Pipework from a meter can be run in a floor void, see Gas Safe TB113 for clarification if you need

In a floor void that is ventilated?

You might be getting mixed up between from the meter or to the meter. You have also mentioned medium pressure supplies which do have some different regs, particularly around using the rear knockout in a meter box.

And single dwellings have different rules than multiple occupancy buildings (flats for example).

Taken from TB113

In simple terms, the research has proved that where gas installation pipework is installed in modern construction joisted floors (see note 4) in single dwellings, there is sufficient adventitious ventilation of the floor construction to safely disperse any minor escape of gas that might occur. Therefore, there is no requirement to install additional purpose provided ventilation to floors of this construction in conventional masonry, timber frame or light steel frame single dwelling buildings.

They are pretty good at blowing the plastic pipe through, if need they can blow a bit of string back the other way and try pulling the pipe in. I’d be confident they will give it a good try….its a LOT easier for them than digging up ground and/or laying copper pipe.

Pipework from a meter can be run in a floor void

Yeah, that’s my understanding. There is a whole section in the current NICEIC “On Site Guides” on pipework installed under floors, in walls, voids, etc. so it definitely can be done. There are caveats, for instance: preferably single pipe run but if not possible then soldered fittings only, no mechanical joints e.g. compression fittings, pipe must be sleeved if going through a concrete floor or solid wall, etc. It may well be down to what the gas supplier guidelines are rather than what’s actually allowed, in which case you’ll probably have to suck it up and get a local Gas Safe person in to sort out the pipework downstream of the meter.

As for the upstream bit, the gas supplier is the law. If they say it needs to be done for safety reasons then it will either be done or you’ll be cut off, simple as that.

Best case scenario is they move your meter outside and connect up to your old pipework with no hassle. Second best is they move your meter and you get someone in to do the rest how you want it doing.

We had this done about a year ago.

Nice chap turned up at the door, explained the pipe work in our street was 50 years old and needed to be replaced. “But it’ll last the rest of our lives” I asked how long “50 years” which was depressing – I’m only 40… he’s rather hedged his bets I won’t make 90… anyway….

He explained very politely that technically they could apply for a warrant for access or cut off our supply if we didn’t agree. I only asked out of interest.

He explained that ideally they’d run a sleeve inside the existing pipework but the existing copper pipe could have 90 bends in it which the new pipe might go around and they’d have to dig up the drive.

I came home to find a small hole in the drive surrounded by gas boards and a note from the project manager. She explained they’d, well dug a hole and a team would be back the next day to repair it, which is exactly what happened.

It’s only a very basic tarmac drive, but to my untrained eye it’s perfect, you can see it, but only because it’s the one good bit on a rough drive.

They were a decent bunch and I was inconvenienced as little as possible.

Remembered another 2 gas problems encountered, plumbers worjking in a restraunt locally connected the water main to the incoming gas main the kitchen, switched on the water and nothing, soo turned on the gas to have a cuppa, and water came out of the gas boiler,etc, gas company had to drain entire street and check all local homes, as water in a gas pipe is dangerous can cause loss of gas ,then gas comes back out with no flame.

Then another house gas main running round outside of house, from external meter box, family member comes round, while i was there with a self cutting tap for an external tap, he was just about to fix it to the gas pipe as he thought it was a water pipe, luckily i stopped him just in time.

as for access, they can quite easily get a warrant to force entry, and cut off gas outisde and remove meter inside.

and if you live in a flat or apartment, or multiple occupancy house, await the letter from electric company about replacing all the cabling to the meter from the main supply point, eg incoming main, to each individual meter, lots of new heavy duty galvanised trunking, looks industrial, seen in in a block of social housing or talk nice and you get nice fire proof boxing and a white plastic finish all fire proof.

The chaps doing the work where excellent and did a great job with hardly any mess, had it done in our apartment block last year