Forum House of Commons vote on air strikes in Syria – which way will you vote?

Read my post how has it insulted you?

It has simply said you were factually wrong to claim there is no collateral damage from bombs from the French air bombing campaign;it will include collateral damage as they are blunt instruments.

Wowsers…
Is this true? Stay classy Dave, you stay classy.

Explains some of the STW right wing nutjobs’ opinions here though.

PS it was very charming insult you used that gave another lovely insight into the kind of person you are.
Will you call me a mong for this reply

Hmm, is observing a silence in honour of eight terrorists who were caught in the act whilst trying to blow up a police station not an expression of ‘sympathy’ then?

Like I said, it does explain a lot of stuff. Thanks for helping further.

1. I think you have confused derision with insulting.

2. As it was a reply to you having called me special I dont think you can play the “offended by insulting ” card as it was pretty tame compared to your post.

Anyway clearly I have upset so I will withdraw but the point remains the French bombing will have collateral damage its inevitable and this is a bit sad.

.

Yes but if you walk away ISIS are going to kill innocents anyways and as for collateral damage this was reported in the Guardian

“The number of civilian casualties from Russian bombardment is far higher than the number caused by American and French airstrikes,” said Wael Aleji, spokesman for the Syrian Network for Human Rights.

Even the Guardian note that air strikes have been effective in pushing back ISIS and limiting ISIS effectiveness.

Darcy removed his nutjob comment. 😀

Don’t worry Darcy I would not accuse you of possibly calling me a Mong based on that.

If you had read my post that was pulled you would have read my explanation for calling you special.

Hmm, is observing a silence in honour of eight terrorists who were caught in the act whilst trying to blow up a police station not an expression of ‘sympathy’ then?

Idk it might be. Which police station are we talking about?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/how-many-moderate-ground-troops-are-there-in-syria-and-are-they-strong-enough-to-defeat-isis-a6756226.html

Interesting piece in the Independent regarding 70,000 local ground troops.

I cannot see what difference we can make to mobilizing these 70,000 to fight as a coherent army against ISIS considering:-

1) We don’t really know who they are.
2) We are not in dialogue with them.
3) They are so spread out.
4) They are as engaged in a struggle against Assad as ISIS
5) Having coherent strategy with them will surely cause friction with Russia.
6) They have little or no training

I don’t know how we can consider this with out any of the problems above being dealt with.

Coalition seems to HOPE that ISIS can be bombed into a weak position and then apparently good guys will step in to finish them off and fill the void.

Effectively an American drive to create a coherent local ground force resulted in 4 recruits!

Remember how Western allies were covertly aiding moderate Syrian Rebels to topple Assad a few years back, before ISIS was ever mentioned…

@chip, really I have no idea what you’re on about. Are you ok?

@Konabunny, he’s referring to the Loughall Ambush. And, being Ninfan, is ignoring that the silence referred to was for the 9 men killed by the SAS- yes, 8 IRA members, and also an innocent bystander who they shot 15 times, without warning. (and his brother, who was shot 14 times but survived- though never received so much as an apology). A fine example of the clear black-and-white, goodies-and-baddies nature of terrorism and the cautious restraint of our armed forces while dealing with terrorists

(This throws back slightly to the “shoot to kill” thing of a couple of weeks back- the story of Loughall, the ambush, and the subsequent investigation is pretty fascinating. Be interesting what the new inquest comes up with)

Ah, so Jezza was honouring a minutes silence for the innocent bloke (who unfortunately turned up at the same time as the ASU) was he?

Darcy you used the term “right wing nutjobs” which does not offend me, but you or someone chose to remove it.
If you say otherwise, I know you are a liar.

We do have some knowledge and communication with troops on the ground because US & UK forces have been on the ground also. Plus there are various westerners fighting against ISIS also.

Coalition seems to HOPE that ISIS can be bombed into a weak position and then apparently good guys will step in to finish them off and fill the void.

This does seem to be the “plan”. Ignoring the fact of course that this (at it’s heart) a sectarian war, and it will be a scramble for power if ISIS has been removed from the stage, let’s hope they’ve all seen the PM’s power point.

I note that we’ve come to the tacit conclusion with the Russians that Assad will stay (as ISIS has largely replaced Assad as “the enemy”, this is now the story that’ll be spun)

DD post still says right wing nutjobs as its still there so I am not sure why you would want to call anyone a liar

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/forum-house-of-commons-vote-on-air-strikes-in-syria-which-way-will-you-vote/page/14#post-7344224

Junkyard you are correct, my apologies DD I am indeed wrong.

Can’t help but wonder if Cameron’s “70000” will be his “WMD”.

I am indeed wrong.

in SO many ways… 😆

The problem is if we say we will be working with a force of 70 thousand ready to tackle IS while we providing air support.
Once IS have been iradicated we have two choices, say thank you before leaving them high and dry at the mercy of the Russians and Assad or help them take on Assad and the Russians.

We need to ether enter into negation with all involved to resolve the civil war in Syria while fighting Isis, or not have anything to do with the 70 thousand and say the civil war is none of our business and we are just here for Isis.

Wowsers…
Is this true? Stay classy Dave, you stay classy.

Explains some of the STW right wing nutjobs’ opinions here though.

@dd stay classy … STW nutjobs

Can’t help but wonder if Cameron’s “70000” will be his “WMD”.

Can’t see the Tories committing Harim-Kari and spending decades in opposition as a result. Counting the peshmerga I think you can get to that number, plus Russians and Iranians and Assads forces etc ….

As for Salmonds contribution we are firstly standing by our allies and secondly the quality of our forces mean we add more than an incremental 1/11th to the campaign. Part of me wishes the French, assuming the strikes are authorised tomorrow, would point out that Britian voted to assist but the Scots voted very heavily against – so please bear that in mind when buying Whisky for Christmas and your holiday plans for 2016

Can’t help but wonder if Cameron’s “70000” will be his “WMD”.

Can’t see the Tories committing Harim-Kari and spending decades in opposition as a result.

Was that the result of Blair’s claim of “WMDs” then?

You really don’t think before you type do you?

Counting the peshmerga I think you can get to that number, plus Russians and Iranians and Assads forces etc ….

The Kurds won’t be allies with Assad against ISIS

jamba…”right wing” nutjobs*. Do keep up. I realise basic comprehension is difficult for you as you endlessly demonstrate, sometimes three or four times in one page of a thread.

*see also, swivel eyed apologists for child-killing armies.

Assad must stay. Simple.

Stick your (generally speaking but could be you I am referring to) shite stirring nose out of trying to depose Assad.

See, the whole affair started with you (West whoever fueling the situation) adding fuel to fire by applying your softly softly encouraging approach (you know their population cannot handle “freedom”) to get rid of Assad … Ya, know what … doing so you are actually killing the Syrians by encouraging them to topple Assad.

Even Assad would not kill (his own) people en-mass like the current in-fighting if not for the encouragement from the west.

Ya, as the Syrian shout out frreeddoommm! What they really mean are … Freedom to beg the west. Freedom to burden others. Freedom with no dignity. Freedom not to die in their own land where they once lived.

All due to the ideal concept of freeddoom imposed on them by the West.

Why are you so eager to feed the world?

Now you feed them …

Part of me wishes the French, assuming the strikes are authorised tomorrow, would point out that Britian voted to assist but the Scots voted very heavily against – so please bear that in mind when buying Whisky for Christmas and your holiday plans for 2016

The French own most of the whisky industry so it’s unlikely

The Kurds won’t be allies with Assad against ISIS DAESH

You don’t need this

If you can tacitly agree to the Kurds holding territory that may lead to a split of Syria then they will be the northern bulwark against Daesh. Getting Assad and the Turks to agree to this is the conundrum

Syria must be split into parts otherwise there will be no end.

Assad with his territory.
Assad opponents (own Syrian people) with their territory.
The Kurds must have their own territory (with S-200 station there).

Once they have agreed on that then they can go after whoever that are not supposed to be there.

How is any of that classy of you @dd ?

@ernie, that’s the most significant outcome IMO. The rest of the stuff around investigations / legality etc is a waste of time IMHO, Blair used advice he received and in any case the relevance of that to the decision to invade is minimal as far as I am concerned. Far too many MPs are trying to cover their arses with the line “I relied on the wmd statement when I voted”. I never believed the 45 mins or wmd claims so discovering they weren’t true was hardly a revelation.

@chew I don’t disagree but the Kurdish bit is going to go down like a lead balloon with Turkey and Iraq. Turkey as they are afraid of a Kurdish breakaway in current Turkey and much of the Iraqi oil is in Kurdish territory.

so please bear that in mind when buying Whisky for Christmas and your holiday plans for 2016

I have to say I pissed up laughing at that

you must be the only person on the planet to have urged economic sanctions against folk for not bombing folks as most folk tend to do sanctions against the war mongers.
It is an interesting moral code by which you operate and at least its consistent with your opposition to sanctions against Israel who do of course kill people at home and abroad. Perhap scotland should do some International assassinations so they can be viewed more positively by yourself?

Sanctions for opposing war…..brilliant.

I think Tony may well be calling you as part of his legal team for the its just sour grapes everyone knew i was lying defence

600 civilian casualties from western bombing so far. (According to chap on radio 4 The World Tonight) But our govts will only admit to 6! Michael Fallon said none at all on Marr show at the weekend

JY French wine industry suffered significantly post Iraq due to US public boycotts. Petty politics from the SNP who would be whining the loudest if there was an attack in Glasgow. They’re making a protest vote just like Corbyn used to. If the majority is as suggested at 100-120 they are going to be very much in the minatory view. However it plays to their only,policy objective, another referendum – “we voted against the Tories but Scotland voice was ignored.”

@ctk it’s tragic but 600 (if true) out of 200,000. Civilians have been getting slaughtered there for 4 years now. Trying to judge the success or not if military action based on the numbers of civilian casualties makes no sense,

However it plays to their only,policy objective, another referendum – “we voted against the Tories but Scotland voice was ignored.”

which your lets sanction them and respectful explanation cunningly avoided GO JAMBY GO you avoided that trap you spotted.

Facepalm

600 dead is very sad.
Over 2500 have drowned in the med this year and 350000 made it across.
How many of these are Syrian and or drowned fleeing Isis I don’t know.

But if we don’t take on Isis the death toll will be much higher.

Jambalaya. Even I don’t think that SNP argument is one for today. Rather than Scotland not being represented, I reckon labour supporters and party views are not being listened to by MP’s wishing to turn one over on their leader.

Germany and China are not currently bombing Syria. Should their exports suffer also?

Glasgow has also suffered a terrorist attack, luckily not damaging.

Bear in mind that Diageo and Ricard Pernod UK are both based in London, as are most UK offices of the distillery owners. This however should be of petty concern. I don’t normally go for the heart wrenching video, but saw one tonight reportedly showing the devastation and aftermath of bomb dropping in Syria. Civilians amongst rubble and bodies saying they didn’t blow up a Russian plane.

The problem is, we went into Iraq without much of a clue what would happen after Saddam. ISIS was was no more than a twinkle in Bush and Blairs eyes. Saddam was somewhat predictable compared to ISIS.. We have even less of a clue what what comes after ISIS. We could get rid of ISIS, but something will replace it possibly even worse.

I am not a pacifist, but the plan with no credible coordinated troops and opposition should be a non starter, as much as Cameron can wish 70,000 troops from thin air.

Ah yes. The old ‘let’s bomb the Syrian homeland in order to reduce the numbers of refugees fleeing the Syrian homeland’ argument. Completely sound, I see no holes in that one at all… Because what Syria needs is more white hot shrapnel flying through the air.

I reckon labour supporters and party views are not being listened to by MP’s wishing to turn one over on their leader.

Surely an MP’s job, once elected, is to represent all their constituents, not just their supporters or party interests (and even then there are arguments about whether party interests are better served in the long term by following the policy of their elected leader rather than the consensus of shadow cabinet members or the wider electorate)

jambalaya – Member

@chew I don’t disagree but the Kurdish bit is going to go down like a lead balloon with Turkey and Iraq. Turkey as they are afraid of a Kurdish breakaway in current Turkey and much of the Iraqi oil is in Kurdish territory.

I bet the Turks have been eyeing that piece of liquid nectar for sometime now and they almost got it right until they shot down a MiG-24. 😆 Now they have to play with S-200.

Iraq needs to relinquish some land too if they want to be stabilised.

Both cannot go on killing the Kurdish people.

And stopping the bombing will stop them fleeing?
refugees fleeing isis
Defeating Isis and helping establish some stability may.