Formula 1 2024 – WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS

Yeah the Rolls Royce procession was a bit odd.
‘Let’s just drive them round in luxury cars. With tinted windows so no body can see them’

I think Max has dispelled the theory that his championships were only because he had a dominant car.

Has he?

He had by far the quickest car in the first part of the season.

It only faded after Newey left after the boss sent dick pics around. It doesn’t look like the constructors will go to RB as the 2nd driver is not performing.

If that was Ferrari the money men would have a new broom through the place.

As it’s a marketing company for a gruesome fizzy drink, expect the same next year.

On that Monaco stuff, given everyone likes the qualifying, but the race is a bit processional, how about…

1. Scrap the qualifying – no, reallly, stick with me.
2. Scrap the race – wait for it…

3. Replace it with a 10 lap, perhaps 15, team time trial.

Head off in reverse team championship order, rolling start, time starts on first car crossing line, finishes on second car.
If a team bin it they’re ranked on how far they got, not the time.
Identical driver points based on the team’s position.
Perhaps the combined normal points of 1st & 2nd to the first team, then 3&4, and so on.

Different from normal racing, might suit Monaco, great PR photos, and not really that contrived (like DRS, or joker lap routes, etc)

Different from normal racing

Sounds a lot like single lap quali and that was a disaster in so many ways.

And Max’s win this year has some echoes of the 2009 season – have a substantial car advantage at the start of the year and build a buffer which gets eroded as the other teams catch up.  I really hope nobody (well, none of the top 4) make a major step for 2025 – I’ve enjoyed the ebb and flow in the performance of RB, Ferrari, Merc and McLaren depending on the circuit and conditions.  It’d be great if one of the other teams could catch them up, but think even a newly Newey’d Aston will struggle, Williams are still building to 26, Alpine are just all over the place, SAudiber likewise, VCARB won’t be allowed to compete with RB and Haas are amazed that anyone’s slower than them this year so will be happy enough if that doesn’t change.

I think Max has dispelled the theory that his championships were only because he had a dominant car.

Really …. how?

He seemed pretty average today.

He seemed pretty average today.

He just did what he needed to do today – even letting Lewis pass without any silly games! 🙂

Expect elbows-out Max to be back for the last two races!

Good race though, certainly worth getting up for.

 Scrap the race

That’s all that is required. The rest is just a compromise to keep it on the calendar. The sooner it gets consigned to history the better. The current and for the foreseeable future cars are just too big for it to work as a venue.

He just did what he needed to do today

Agreed [but even an idiot wouldn’t have risked anything], but that has nothing to do with

I think Max has dispelled the theory that his championships were only because he had a dominant car.

He’s going to have a lot more on his plate next year.

Next year will be a weird one. Teams that will do sod all on their 2025 cars as their sole focus will be 2026…

• Haas

• Alpine

• Williams

• Aston

• Sauber/Audi

• RB

Red Bull, Ferrari, Merc and McLaren have the basics of decent 2025 cars anyway. And one of them may chance chucking a bunch of cash at next season to try and steal championships while the others have half an eye on 2026.

God, the Rolls Royce procession really is an unneeded tacky thing we could do without.

Quite appropriate for Las Vegas, the home of tacky things.

Anyway, yesterday I was wondering if Ferrari would be kicking themselves for signing Lewis. Today, I’m sure they won’t be.

I think Max has dispelled the theory that his championships were only because he had a dominant car.

He’s very difficult to judge. He was pretty even with Sainz and Riciardo. Checo appears to have lost his mojo the last couple of years and Albon and Gasly were almost rookies who weren’t given time to get the hang of things.

He is the only world champ not have been teammates with another world champ (Jones/Hunt slightly contrived)

Very difficult to judge how good he is, compared to say, a Hamilton who we can compare to Alonso, Button and Rosberg.

Definitely has an attitude problem, but then races like Brazil are true champion’s drives.

Isn’t this technically his second championship on merit plus the one gifted and one paid for with buffet sandwiches?

Anyone thinking that Checo overtaking two cars at one corner is enough to secure a drive for next year?

Me neither….

Don’t think Checo can really be bothered. Would you want to drive for a team wholly focused on the evil one?

He will never keep a win if, Vestaphen is behind him.

It’s interesting to know just how much difference the car makes.  I’m watching the Brawn series – notable how pre double diffuser additions to red bull  the Brawn was immediately uncompetitive in the wet and Red Bull surged in those conditions.     Yet who’s the better driver – Button or Webber?

It’s a game of such fine margins, see a suddenly dominant Mercedes this weekend, which even they report to not knowing why.

I suspect the drivers are within very tiny decimals of percentage difference on ability.  Verstappen brought the fear of “Crashstappen” to the game to bully his way through on top of a dominant car and made a change to F1 that way… …before this years finer margins and penalties tempered that a little.

We await to see if someone finds a revelation in 2026, but as above for 2025 i suspect most has been wrung out of the cars with the top teams unwilling to risk current performance for a risky innovation.

Anyway, yesterday I was wondering if Ferrari would be kicking themselves for signing Lewis. Today, I’m sure they won’t be.

I’m sure Ferrari are going to be happy, but after their frankly woeful off-track performance  on Sunday – that probably cost a podium place,  I can’t imagine that Hamilton is massively impressed.

Isn’t this technically his second championship on merit plus the one gifted and one paid for with buffet sandwiches?

There is of course the asymmetric braking technical directive which coincided with Red Bulls sudden decline. So he’s maybe got x1 WC! 🙂

2 races left, plenty still to fight for….

1) Can Ferrari overturn McLaren for the constructors

2) Can Leclerc overturn Lando for the runners up spot

3) Will Perez finally be allowed to win a race 😉

4) Will Mercedes performance collapse again

I think rather than collapse, I think we’re seeing very track specific performance from each of the teams, look at how badly (relatively) McLaren did yesterday for example.

Isn’t this technically his second championship on merit plus the one gifted and one paid for with buffet sandwiches?

There is of course the asymmetric braking technical directive which coincided with Red Bulls sudden decline. So he’s maybe got x1 WC!

I think that’s the problem. Regardless of how good he is his titles will always be tainted, much like Schumacher for instance, it’s likely there was a lot of cheating going on in the Benneton days and so, IMO, he’s not an equal to Hamilton, even if he is by number of titles. I think Verstappen will have the same problem, 2021 isn’t any more valid than 1994 for example

I have no doubt that Verstappen will be remembered as one of the greats, just like Schumacher. Both of them are difficult to like but nobody seriously doubts their skill behind the wheel. 2021 was one of the greatest championship battles ever. Yes, it ended in a farce but Verstappen would still have gone down as a great driver even if he had lost that championship. This year he maximized the performance of a difficult and often unpredictable car. Perez is a decent driver when he has a decent car but he was made to look hopeless by Verstappen this year. The victory in Brazil sealed the title, that was a race that Max really had no business winning, it really was a superb drive. Norris had a car capable of winning the title but he just wasn’t quite at the same level as Max. I’m pretty sure that Alonso or Hamilton at their best would have taken the title in this year’s McLaren (and Verstappen too).

There’s always a fine line between exploiting loopholes and cheating. Much as I don’t find Red Bull’s general behaviour endearing, I don’t believe they’re cheats in the way that more than one of Flav’s teams were. I think the thing about Verstappen’s racing is how he responds on track when the pressure is really on. He teeters on the edge of Schumacher’s tactics—and for me, Schumacher’s legacy is absolutely tainted in a way that almost no other truly great driver’s is. (OK, Senna had Suzuka ‘90 but that’s an outlier.) I can’t imagine Verstappen would ever park up at Rascasse, but I don’t think it’d be inconceivable that he would consider torpedoing a championship rival if he felt that was his only chance.

Unexpectedly enjoyable race at the Spiderpig Speedway, though—no shortage of action. I’d thought Fred had dealt with the Ferrari strategy gremlins but apparently not. I really hope they get their ducks in order for next year; they’ll need to. Could be a big year for them.

Kryton57Full Member
4) Will Mercedes performance collapse again

Russell apparently said the reason they were so fast is a combination of a very efficient rear wing, cool track & smooth surface let them get the car into the window which is to be run very low and very stiff.

Mark Hughes’ analysis of why Merc dominated:
https://www.the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hughes-extreme-factors-behind-mercedes-vegas-domination/

Basically, the perfect track and weather conditions for Merc, the worst for McLaren. Merc will need to make their car work over a much wider range of conditions if they want to win titles next year, so will Red Bull. But, they will all have learned a lot from this year so hard to predict much beyond any of the top four teams might win next year.

cool track & smooth surface let them get the car into the window which is to be run very low and very stiff

It’s about 30 years since I studied fluid dynamics (and to be honest most of the fluids I was studying at the time came in pint glasses) but the thing that strikes me about that is that I’d confidently reckon that would be the easiest set of parameters to model accurately. It really reinforces the idea that at least one key to cracking the modern ground effect regulations was to understand the complex relationship between the suspension and the airflows, and by implication the notion that Newey understood that relationship more clearly and more quickly than anyone.

Looks like there will be 11 teams in 2026…

F1 confirms agreement for GM/Cadillac to be 11th team in 2026

Unsure what to make of it.

Its good to have another team on the grid, but it feels like 2000’s when loads of manufacturers entered as constructors, only to leave a few years later when they worked out that they couldnt win against the big 4 “independents”.

Seems like F1 had their hand forced by the threat of US competition laws, but as a compromise the Andretti connection had to be dropped.

Chew

Seems like F1 had their hand forced by the threat of US competition laws, but as a compromise the Andretti connection had to be dropped.

Indeed, but also they don’t want Andretti making a car outside of the restrictions.

F1 had no choice once Andretti started building a car outside of the restrictions. The presser mentions 'TWG Global' which is headed by Dan Towriss (took over from Michael Andretti at Andretti Global).Some great people onboard that project, including Pat Symonds who helped shape the 2026 regs. #F1

— Rory Mitchell (@rorymitchellf1.bsky.social) 2024-11-25T18:39:08.525Z

Monza has had a stay of execution for a couple of weeks.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/articles/czd56e6r9epo

“We are all aware that history is no longer enough.”

That’s so sad. 🙁

“We are all aware that history is no longer enough.”

That’s so sad. ?

Unfortunately it’s going to be the way now that F1 is owned by an American franchise. Was always under threat when Ecclestone was in charge, but he used to screw organisers for his own gains. Allegedly ?

“We are all aware that history is no longer enough.”

That’s so sad

I’m all for history and having races where there’s a culture of motorsport, but the circuits also have to ensure they’re fitting places for a modern F1 race. Silverstone regularly took a kicking from Bernie because of this, and they have made changes while still keeping much of the essence of the historic track.

A few years ago I went to monza, then the next year Abu Dhabi. The contrast between the two was remarkable – AD has fantastic modern facilities, even  air conditioned bogs, but lacked the soul of Monza with its scaffold plank benches and questionable portaloos. AD also seemed to lack the slack approach to security and consequent risk of petty crime that Monza had. The plans for Monza with decent facilities sounds fantastic, but the one problem with the track being so fast is that the race is over before you know it

We are all aware that history is no longer enough.”

it seems to be for Monaco though as they is no good reason for holding a parade there. The pits are way below spec, there are no facilities it’s a joke

Monza has had a stay of execution for a couple of weeks

i think they have another 7 years, haven’t they? Or did the story update after this was posted?

Yeah, I’m a bit confused by the ‘sad’ comments. The article says Monza will be on the calendar until at least 2031 unless I’ve missed something (quite possible).

Silverstone regularly took a kicking from Bernie because of this, and they have made changes while still keeping much of the essence of the historic track.

I think Bernie gave Silverstone a kicking to extract as much money as he could out of the place…

A few years ago I went to monza, then the next year Abu Dhabi. The contrast between the two was remarkable – AD has fantastic modern facilities, even  air conditioned bogs, but lacked the soul of Monza with its scaffold plank benches and questionable portaloos. AD also seemed to lack the slack approach to security and consequent risk of petty crime that Monza had. 

I went to MotoGP when it transitioned from Donington to Silverstone and, whilst the facilities are undoubtably nicer, it was such a cold, sterile environmrnt by comparison. Mugello’s even more spartan, but I’d take the atmosphere and mayhem of one Mugello over the shiny facilities of a thousand Abu Dhabis.

Yeah, I’m a bit confused by the ‘sad’ comments. 

The sadness was about history no longer being enough. 🙁

it was such a cold, sterile environmrnt

Every MotoGP event is cold and sterile as no bugger goes to them. You can have a whole row of seat in the grandstand to yourself.

As evidence to the contrary, I present Mugello, M’lud. 🙂

They do need to sort out the aero, stupid ride-height stuff and electronics, though – it has become dull. 🙁