Forget tuition fees, how expensive is Diesel now

Well the Toyota hybrid system is more sensitive to driving technique than a normal car, which may or may not be a bad thing..

But yes – lots of people don’t get near 60mpg in a MkII – but I do! Some people are getting 45mpg, which I don’t understand at all.

Interesting idea the Fuelly website. But it would seem to only be used by people who care about economy. It’d be interesting to see a similar breakdown of ALL owners of a particular car, so you could see how they responded to indifferent driving.

Outdoor pursuits are the reason I bought a car in the first place.

I do love train travel, but I currently live 20-30 mins from the station. The purchase of our current house was not necessarily the best idea for a variety of reasons, that being one.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/may/10/biofuels.alternativeenergy
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageExcise_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD1_024771&propertyType=document

Biodiesel is far too much of a ballache for most people tho.

But it would seem to only be used by people who care about economy.

Tell that to this bloke
http://www.fuelly.com/driver/notyme/300

PeterPoddy why’ve you got your Fuelly fuel price set to dollars? mine shows £

The jeans are pretty overpriced, but I do like their t-shirts.

stop the mumping, if you dont want to pay…..dont **** drive, isnt this meant to be a bike forum ?

regards to people not needing cars and could easily do without on the previous page,… how would you go about doing your weekly shopping for your family?

say 6 bags or shopping? that could fit on the train, how i get to the train? bike er no, bus er no bus on the route….. taxi ahum_?!

yes i see, actually i dont. drive your cars!!!

the goverment cant even put a plan into place regarding the 3 weeks of snow we have now, even though we got the best scientist regarding global warming 😉

when the price of trains go down i go by train and put up with the 20 mins walk before and after the station to work and home till then i will be in my warm car driving past all those cold people at the mo walking to work 😉 and saving a already dying planet!

regards to people not needing cars and could easily do without on the previous page,… how would you go about doing your weekly shopping for your family?

say 6 bags or shopping? that could fit on the train, how i get to the train? bike er no, bus er no bus on the route….. taxi ahum_?!

Shop more frequently. Don’t buy as much crap. Use a shopping trolley. My mum always managed our family shopping, and countless other people globally manage to get their supplies in (sometimes over considerable distances), without having to use a car. I use panniers on me bike if I’m doing a ‘big’ shop, granted it’s only for me though. People need an excuse to be lazy these days.

Cars simply make things more convenient, they don’t suddenly make the impossible happen.

CBA reading all the sanctimonious stuff about not needing a car, so not sure if I’ve missed somebody else pointing out that whilst petrol prices might be at an all time high, diesel still isn’t as expensive as it was a year or two ago – I paid £1.33 at somewhere not particularly expensive back then.

Currently paying 136.9p per litre for diesel here in Orkney. Do I win a prize?! My Nissan Navara is doing a wallet bashing 17.5mpg in this snow.

£1.20-ish a litre is still a huge bargain for what it represents. The fact that it’s mostly tax isn’t that relevant IMO, it’s cheaper than decent cider and it’s a renewable. Ask your grandkids in 50 years whether they think we got a raw deal.

I’m not going to go all sanctimonious and ecowarrior on you, I happily drive pointless miles in my stinky diesel to ride bicycles and I’ll keep on doing that til the fuel is too expensive. And right now it’s not even remotely close to that.

Fuel prices will always go up, it’s an easy revenue boost for whoevers in power. I remember being 17, having just passed my driving test. We all used to bung a tenner in the tank and just go driving for an afternoon for entertainment. Can’t imagine ever doing that now! Currently looking for a motor ATM., but Im still buying petrol as I can’t afford a nice merc cls diesel (love em) most diesels still seem noisy horrible things to drive, IMO

I feel hard done by because I live a pretty low carbon lifestyle but my large car is part of that and I get no credit for all the good things I do, but hammered when I put diesel in my car. Taxed three times in one go! (income tax, excise duty, VAT) Grrrr.

I have had rethink my commute, can’t do (all of) it by bike in the ice. Have had to use the train. HORRIBLE. Slow, cramped, inconvenient, unpleasant, expensive, unreliable. Car, lovely, no screaming babies or fighting women.

Why do people bash car drivers but not folk who live in great big (use lots of resources to heat) look-at-how-much=money-I-earn houses? and folk who crank up the heating so’s they can wear a t shirt indoors in the winter? Why aren’t they criticised?

BTW, I wrote to Nick Clegg and pointed out this iniquity and said I was thinking of abandoning my (planet friendlier) caravan holidays in the UK, and was going to take far away holidays from now on by (planet unfriendly) aeroplane … I didn’t get a reply.

Why do people bash car drivers but not folk who … etc.

because people are stupid.

very, very stupid.

Because car driving involves such conspicuous consumption, allows people to be selfish, showcases such displays of impatience and antisocial behaviour? And costs the non car driving folk thousands a year to subsidise?

What about working? I can’t work without a vehicle!!

What do you do that requires you to use a vehicle to work?

What do you do that requires you to use a vehicle to work?

What a ridiculous question.

Here’s a starter for 10 – my mum is a Community nurse. With no car, she can’t get to people that need daily help.

That’s one of MANY jobs that NEED a car.

Get over yourself surf matt.

I merely asked Edric a civil question. What does HE do that requires a car.

Most people who say they need a car for work actually choose one as a result of lifestyle choices.

Of course their are exceptions.

I’m with fbk on this one, I’m self employed and do about 30-40k a year so it really hurts the finances when it goes up. So much for helping small business when it seems so easy to raise revenue via fuel

Well, maybe next time you’ll think twice when putting the envelop in.

Here’s a starter for 10 – my mum is a Community nurse. With no car, she can’t get to people that need daily help.

Dunno maybe bus/cycle/train? Maybe she doesn’t NEED to OWN a car. I know a bloke who’s a nurse and who goers to people (mainly older) to take car of them. Well guess what he’s not using a car.

TJ, I don’t know what you mean about non car owners subsidising car owners. Can you explain please?

Oh, my friend is a kitchen fitter. He is a big strong lad, but couldn’t possibly get his tools to work without his van.

What, and a massive house is not conspicuous consumption? (arrogant and the other things you said?

Dunno maybe bus/cycle/train? Maybe she doesn’t NEED to OWN a car. I know a bloke who’s a nurse and who goers to people (mainly older) to take car of them.

Try that in rural Cornwall. 😆 😆

She DOES NEED to own a car.

As do many people in rural areas. In fact most people need a car. Oh how the naive and self righteous make me giggle. 😆

Let’s admit it shall we oh car bashers – you all live in cities, you all have no idea. And why the hell do you mountain bike anyway? Think of all the resources you waste pursuing what is merely a LIFESTYLE CHOICE.

Your argument makes a sieve look watertight.

Alright, I’ve stayed out of this one so far but…

Serious question for TJ: Do you think the UK economy could function as productively as it does now without such widespread use of personal transportation?

(not having a go – I agree that we have far too much car use but I don’t agree with your simplistic idea of a solution)

Surf matt – you just confirm your narrow minded stupidity.

Most people need a car.

🙄

Karine of nine.

The true total cost of motoring is far more than is raised thru all the motoring taxes. Thus non car owners subsidise car owners ( and road transport in general)

For example local roads are paid for out of council tax / by local government. There is a huge cost of death and illhealth from car ownerhip – that cost the country millions, the cost of enforcing motoring law- these sorts of thing

Its a whole can of worms that will get me an apoplectic attack from the hard core petrol heads on here for even mentioning it

Mat you’re being an idiot again. Someone makes a valid point, and you choose SOME exceptions to that to rubbish the whole point. Terrible reasoning.

Molgrips – yes easily but it would take a generation or more to make the shift – it cannot be done overnight. It took us 60 years to get here from a situation where most folk lived within easy reach of their work to the mass commuting now.

I’m keen to see what TJ says about this “non car owners” subsiding the car owners, although a realise that by asking him to substantiate this claim its handing the saop to him.

And im with Surf on the rural commuities, for some places there just isnt a choice about car ownership this day and age.

don’t forget that car manufacturers are not unknown to receive generous financial assistance from taxpayers…

assistance that isn’t necessarily quite so generously extended to manufacturers of ‘not-cars’.

Clong – of course there is a choice – you made the choice to live there in that situation.

In fact most people need a car

you saying that everyone in a rual area would die without a car???

for some places there just isnt a choice about car ownership this day and age.

You also seem to be confusing easier with essential
Yes I have lived in a rural area withot a car it is harder than in a city but it is not life threateningly hard like say no food

I agree it could be done but not at all easily.

1) it’s mentally easier for people to do things when they are physically present at work
2) it’s also logistically easier
3) it’d be impossible to tell people that they could not take that lucrative job that’s 40 miles away because car use is bad, mkay, and they have to stick with the crap poorly paid one they have.

Three very difficult issues here.

Like TJ – I think we should all follow the Amish way of life

oh, & no one is allowed a dog that barks either, coz it’s scary

The true total cost of motoring is far more than is raised thru all the motoring taxes. Thus non car owners subsidise car owners ( and road transport in general)

For example local roads are paid for out of council tax / by local government. There is a huge cost of death and illhealth from car ownerhip – that cost the country millions, the cost of enforcing motoring law- these sorts of thing

So any proof for these bold claims?

No, I thought not.

Yes I get what some of you are trying to say – a lot of people live too far from where they work, rely too much on their cars, etc but a dose of reality is needed.

In a big city, public transport is generally good enough to get you almost anywhere you need to, when you need to. In rural communities you have one bus a day if you’re lucky and that is literally it. No trains or any viable alternatives.

Hey, maybe no one should live in the countryside?

As for taxes – the last figure I heard was that road taxes made the Government almost £40bn of which £5bn was ploughed back into the road network. I very much doubt that cars “cost” the government £35bn….

TJ – in the spirit of genuine discussion:

Got any figures?

Non car owners also use the roads (in buses, which, by the way, TOTALLY trash roads, see the bus lanes around the Elephant & Castle for example), on bicycles, horses (but not often and not really for transport, to be fair).

Car owners not only pay road taxes, but income tax too, from which road upkeep comes.

Car owners pay council tax, so are contributing there also.

Car ownership may cause accidents and illness but also brings great joy, being able to go to events, shopping (whatever you like), which makes people happy. Happiness is very important indeed.

On the other hand, I believe that most/many drivers are not skilled enough, do not pay attention properly, have completely the wrong attitude, have no notion of the responsibility that ought to go with propelling so many tons of metal at speed. Driving used to be a privilege and something one took pride in – I see very little of that nowadays. (God, that makes me sound old! lol)

Moilgrips – you still don’t see it. over a generation – attitudes change – think of the difference between transport in the 50s and now?

Over a generation or more it is easy to do this – make private motoring more expensive ( as it will become anyway as oil runs out) but do it in a controlled and planned manner using he money to subsidise alternatives.

One thing is commuting becomes less attractive / feasable / cost effective. Youa re not telling hem they cannot have that job with the 40 mile commute tbut that the various factors that people weigh when they make that decision are rebalanced – and you can also use teh revenue raised to improve public transport.

I take the train to work because its cheaper and faster than a car. All the shops I need to survive are within walking distance of my house too.

But I still have a car that does 20mpg, it’s great fun and if it riles up a few hippies then I’m just that little bit happier.

Oh and I work from home – the ultimate example of not relying on a car.
Molgrips, preacher of greeness has a very large commute and relies on extremely resource heavy hotels. He also flies a lot. No pious is going to offset that sort of giant footprint.

Karine / surf matt – if yo want to see some numbers here is a good place to sart. A bit of counter propaganda to the petrol heads.

Karine – what did I tell you about the attacks

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2000/08/03/drivers-are-undertaxed/

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/category/transport/