First Munro

A work mate and her other half are staying in Callander around Christmas and looking to bag their first Munro. They are looking at doing Ben Lawers. It’s not technical, apparently, but it is a biggie. At almost 4000ft and 9th highest in the UK, I’m a little concerned it might be too much as they’re not seasoned walkers, and it’s December so will be short on light and could be snow or other weather issues. What’s a good first Munro within an hour drive that isn’t quite so committing but a great day out, closer to the 3000 ft contour? Cheers

Lawers is pretty easy, and well worth it.

From the carpark it is one of the easier and shorter Munros.

it’s December so will be short on light and could be snow or other weather issues.

It will be snowy, and icy and you will more than likely have weather issues. If they are not used to winter walking with axe and crampons, be very careful.

By the way – easier is to head for start of Tarmachan, and if the snow is bad stop at spot height 923m.

I would advise against it. News here is constantly talking about unprepared climbers having to be rescued and at that time of year it will be at least windy as **** and most likely icy and snowy.

Nonsense. Statistically more likely to have snow at Easter up here than at Christmas.

Ben Dorain might work as might Ben Ime.

It’s an awkward first Munro as most folk end up doing Beinn Ghlas on the way there 😆

Ben Vorlich is pretty straightforward in the right conditions, though wee Meall Buidhe above the dam at Loch an Daimh (Glen Lyon) has one of the best views in the area and is “only” 932m.

Oh, Schiehallion isn’t far away and is blessed with an easy-to-follow path and straightforward topography

Ben vorlich. Early December is, in my mind, the first big snow. Lawers will be in the firing line and therefore tricky. Vorlich may also be white but a simpler day.

Actually getting to the start of lawers can be a sod,water runs down the steep road and it often turns to a sheet of ice.

How about Ben Lomond?

It will be snowy, and icy

It could just as easily be 10 degrees.

Another vote for Schiehallion. It’s a really straightforward day with great views.

Get them to go for it, though a route with a clearer path like Lomond might be better. Some of those wrap around micro snow chains would be good if it’s icy. Winter sees some epic views and good weather for walking.

PS Ben Lawers is an easy climb, the car park is around 300m if i remember right!

Ben Lawers is fairly easy from the car park. However it is big it might be white and days are short. For that last reason I would not pick it as first Munro on Christmas day. Ben Vorlich might be a better choice or if Munro status is not essential why not pick Ben Ledi next to Callander but not a Munro.

If the road up to the Ben Lawers car park is icy then.That would be a good reason for the unprepared to reconsider anyway.

Oh – snowing in Scabbymore at the moment btw

Nevis via Observatory Gully is the preferred hill/route of choice for the hard of thinking these days I hear…

IIRC, matt_outandabout does/did live right under Lawers, and bearing in mind his ‘trade’, take his advice.

For beginners, big grassy lumps with simple nav would always be my first choice. Betterer still, go with someone who knows what they’re doing…

Aye Boblo, saw that last night. Some folk just don’t deserve help!

Who are all these bens that these hills are named after? I’ve never heard of any of them.

Aye Boblo, saw that last night. Some folk just don’t deserve help!

Genuinely couldn’t get my head round that one! I know this may sound facetious, but it would suggest some sort of mental health issue or learning difficulty?

We saw streams of folk turning back from Ben Lawers last winter due to hard slippy ice, albeit later in the season.

I was doing my usual ‘looking like an unprepared newb’ as I walked up and got a grilling from a very stern looking older gent until I persuaded him that (unlike him 😀 ) I’d brought my axe and crampons and knew how to use them…

I had to research Observatory Gully, is it usually a sort of Grade 1 affair or is it a proper climb? I’m planning a wee low level jaunt to check out a few rivers and waterfalls this weekend, hope I don’t become the subject of a similar story… 😕

do they need to tick the munro box? Lots nearby[/url]

Genuinely couldn’t get my head round that one! I know this may sound facetious, but it would suggest some sort of mental health issue or learning difficulty?

I place a bet on someone on holiday who had one day to do ‘the route’ he had planned for six months to do, on that day….

And now I can think straight (manflu last night…)

I agree that Shiehallion would be a better bet for a first hill, although neither Tarmachan or Beinn Ghlas are ‘difficult’ in my view – they are both easy wanders on clear paths, with a final steep section. Both steep sections have some rocky outcrops each side, often offering islands of safety and easy (grippy) scrambling when the snow is fresh. Both offer options of the weather are time are good to extend (up to Lawers or along ridge to Garbh and more on Tarmachan, where as Shiehallion is a one hit wonder (a nice wonder mind)…

Yes the weather could be fine, but I prefer to err on side of caution – someone asking for hill suggestions and if it might be wintery suggest a lack of confidence or experience….as is the ‘they are not seasoned hillwalkers’ statement.

Be prudent.

At the risk of sounding patronising I would suggest that munros in winter are probably not the place for “unseasoned walkers”. Wasn’t it Alan Hinkes who said the himalayas were good training for Scottish winter?

It might be calm, clear and 10′. It might be -10′, horizontal spindrift and a total whiteout. It might change from one to the other in an hour. Ice, snow, low cloud, low temperatures and wind chill, avalanche risk and short daylight hours means they need to be well equipped and skilled and/or lucky with conditions on they day.

I’m not saying don’t go, but certainly don’t go at all costs. Even experienced walkers die on easy routes in Scotland each year.

I’m fairly local, I’d go for Ben Chonzie as it’s pretty benign and navigation is fairly straightforward – they can use a map and compass right? Or for ease of navigation then scheihallian is a good shout and it’s a bit of a monument mountain as well. The boulder field at the top may be challenging if there is the “wrong” amount of snow though.

Ben Vorlich is easy but does have cliffs, and poor visibility, cornices and inexperience isn’t a great mix.

Carn gorm would work – stay on the broad ridge and the avalanche risk is small and if they do slip the run out is safe. Navigation is straightforward as well. Just don’t be tempted to do the full horseshoe, that’s a fairly big day in good conditions. Thinking about it, that’s the one I would suggest.

HTC feel free to email me (or get them to) if I can help any more.

My vote for Schiehallion, Tarmachan is possibly shorter due to the height of the car park. My only thoughts against Ben Lawyers and Ben Ghlas is the possibility of going off track in low cloud (more route options / other hills you could end up climbing)… but if they can map read then all should be good 🙂

Ben Ledi is a good shout if they weren’t set on a Munro or if the weather isn’t good for it.

EDIT: http://www.walkhighlands.co.uk is good for some basic route information.

I had to research Observatory Gully, is it usually a sort of Grade 1 affair or is it a proper climb? I’m planning a wee low level jaunt to check out a few rivers and waterfalls this weekend, hope I don’t become the subject of a similar story.

It’s not graded to my knowledge as it’s just a massive approach gully/slope to lots of climbs. The easy exit is Tower Gully, the other is something like gardyloo gully, but both might vary in grade depending on conditions.

Oh, Schiehallion isn’t far away and is blessed with an easy-to-follow path and straightforward topography

Keep going up, you’ll get to the top. Keep going down, you’ll get to near where you want to be, not the case on every mountain. Also, it’s easy to get off in a hurry if you need to.
Also, assuming no low cloud, you’ll see where you’re aiming for and see if you want to go up,
But remember, it’s exposed and cold and the weather changes fast. You need to have a idea as to what you’re doing and be equipped for the worst, not what it’s like in the car park.
Seconded the advice about listening to matt_oab

Yes to Schiehallion

Schiehallion “The fairy hill of the Caledonians” sounds like a good starter 🙂

Do SMC still print these blue district guide books?

By far the worst weather I have ever experienced was up a Munro in winter. Trying to capture moment my camera bag blew away never to be seen again.

Thanks for all the replies folks.
My initial thought was Schiehallion too but it as it’s an hour’s drive away it might be a deal-breaker.
TBH I think come the day if there’s already snow down that might deter them anyway.
My only experience of Scottish mountains is the Ben x 3 times (3PC) and Cairngorm all in the summer – if it was the Lakes or N Wales I’d feel happier about recommending something.
Keep ’em coming though 🙂

I’d be amazed if there wasn’t snow on the munros at that time. There is already a covering down to about 500m here, and if not actual snow it’ll be icy. An hours drive from Callander pretty much limits you to Ben Lomond, the Lawers Group, the hills around Crianlarich, Ben Vorlich and Ben Chonzie. Of those I’d go for the latter.

No particular local knowledge, but I’ve certainly had proper full-on winter conditions requiring ice axe and crampons in Scotland at Christmas. Not something to be taken at all lightly – the group I was with on that occasion had plenty of experience in the hills, and we had the sense to turn around before the top on a couple of occasions on supposedly easy mountains (and a lack of sense on another with a more select party with good kit which turned into a bit of an epic).

I’ve had full on winter conditions from the end of September to the beginning of June in the past in Scotland.

I’ve been on the Cairngorm plateau in December with no more than a slight dusting of snow. Truth is, it’s only guesswork until the day. All you need is an open mind, an ability to read the conditions and some common sense not to proceed beyond your abilities.

It’s a shame some folk lack those qualities.

If you take part in this activity at some point you will do your first hill in winter condition. Schiehallion is a good candidate for that.
I guess, having taken people to do this for the first time myself it’s about managing expectations. Be prepared to turn back and not feel like you’re losing something. If there’s a small amount of snow just at the upper reaches, visibility is good (and forecast optimistic – good luck with MWIS) then go as far as you feel confident. If it’s really wintry at low levels it could be a hairy drive on the single track road to Schiehallion.
Ben A’an is wonderful little hill and it feels like twice it’s height when you’re on the summit but it’s half a munro’s height and a great compromise if needed.

How confident are you in their compass skills? I wouldn’t want to climb ben lawyers in December without the ability to navigate in 20m visibility. And at that sort of vis, everyone in the group needs that ability and equipment as it’s easy to misplace a person. If they aren’t used to walking I suspect they think the GPS will get them there (which it probably will, but of course if it can break it will be up the mountain in a cloud rather than when you can see the car park!). Just because you can see the summit when you park the car doesn’t mean you can see when you actually reach the summit.

We hired a guide in advance. They asked us about previous experience and what we wanted from the day and sorted us with some loan kit. We then left them to decide the best hill/route on the day

They pushed us hard enough to keep it challenging, taught us some skills we were missing and emphasised respect of the conditions/environment

We did this in Scotland and Wales. We ended up snow and ice climbing waterfalls and gulleys and saw some amazing views/scenery. If we had stuck to planning our own routes much of this would have eluded us

Since then we have probably turned back 30% of the time based on what they taught us, but we are (were) only occasional mountain visitors and were often trying to bag something on the only day we had spare which seems like a frequently cited cause of an ‘incident’. We have also seen some woefully unprepared people carrying on (Ben Nevis in October wearing plimsoles and a Pack a Mac carrying a bottle of water in a hand with no pack/bag for anything else :-/

Lawers is easier (physically and navigationally) than most of the other Munro’s mentioned.

The A9 or A93 ones are probably the easiest though.