Firefighters to strike in september, over working hours

can you tell me which are private vs public here
http://www.reed.co.uk/jobs/paramedic

They all look to be private sector serving the NHS for over the phone diagnosis and triage.

Are they graduates ?

Registered with an external governing body ?

Do they work autonomously ? ie lone working ?

I answer yes to all of them but not a FF. 😀

Think this comparison and division is damaging to all and unfair to many. I couldn’t do my wife’s job, she will readily admit she cant do what I do, I could never be a soldier, my dad couldn’t hack being a salesmen.

Yet most of us are needed to make our world go round.

So…..

Are they graduates ? Yes some are

Registered with an external governing body ? Yes they get a SQA/NVQ

Do they work autonomously ? ie lone working ? some of the Fire Safety/Com ed boys n girls do. we are not allowed to take a fire appliance on yer tod

What point scoring are you trying to prove here?

None mate

I think you’ve answered them just fine cheers

SQA NVQ isn’t a governing body is it? He’s talking about HCPC for us they over see what we should be doing.

He’s not point scoring the reason we got a big pay boost was that we all work autonomously and we are a recognised protected title meaning we all have a minimum standard of training .

Graduate will become standard currently the trend is undergraduate level but I’ll suspect that’ll change to BHSc.

db – one offers a NHS pension – so that suggests to me it’s public

question for you, how much of a DC pension pot do you need to get a £10,000 a year pension (at age 60, rpi linked, with a spouse element/5yr gtee)

another question – if you had a pot of money to retire on, say £X and you wanted to know how much to spend per year can you tell me the equation you’d use to make sure you were ok ?

Bracky

I’m not a firefighter!

He’s talking about HCPC for us they over see what we should be doing.

So what you should be doing and actually do are different? 😉

So what you should be doing and actually do are different?

Not me but those that have and been found get struck off the register.

db – one offers a NHS pension – so that suggests to me it’s public

It might suggest it but it doesn’t make it so, if you open up the advert it says:

Leading company requires Clinical Advisors to provide support to the new 111 service based in Peterborough. This is a 24 hours a day 365 days a year call handling service, that will enable call handler to triage and match the patient with the service in their local area that can deliver the care they need.

As a tip if it’s NHS then it will have a payband in most instances eg. Paramedic Band 5, not a salary.

Note this is not true for all NHS jobs but most of them, and it would be for clinical posts such as these.

I also think it’s very dangerous to draw conclusions based on assumptions.

No idea on the NHS pension, mind – probably agreed between the private provider and the Trust.

No idea with the other stuff tbh.

Too early in privatisation of the publc sector to say what will happen to the difference in wages for like for like posts. (examples posted here are clutching at straws IMHO)

Give it a few years and you will be able to look at organisations sold out to private enterprise which were previously NHS or LA and see if private side wages have changed. In nursing and midwifery this is unlikely as there aren’t enough of them and at some point if companies who have taken over NHS services reduce wages or replace leaving staff with less senior ones, market forces may well prevail and staff will stay in or migrate back to the NHS where they are paid what they were always paid, with maybe some adjustment for more sparsely populated areas where the density of posts is lower and folk are less inclined to have to move house/town/kids schools unless they really suffer.

I may be putting the cat amongst the pigeons with regards to education in wondering how you can adjust for smaller class sizes and use of tutors (as opposed to B.Edded or PGCE’d teachers) in private education and academies to make like for like comparisons with you typical state secondary or primary teacher who may or may not be supported by TA’s or SEN staff.

At the moment google confirms that permanent like for like nursing jobs are paid the same in private sector as NHS (agency/temp/locum wages again are an unrealistsic comparison), and actually slightly more plus perks for nursing managers in places that have been private since way before the Health And Social Care Act (eg Priory group, Huntercombe group, St Andrew’s).

Anyone know what the wage differences for officers and governors/managers are like in privately run prisons versus state ones?

julian, db

can you stop talking about wages/salary and start working in ‘package’ terms – do you really not understand the difference or are you just unwilling to do an actual fair comparison ?

“At the moment google confirms that permanent like for like nursing jobs are paid the same in private sector as NHS”
Right for each job type, please supply the following (and yes this incomplete but it’s the best I can do at short notice”;
– hours per week
– flexihours available?
– overtime – rate and possibility of getting
– number of days holiday
– pension (is it final salary/DB or DC, what % does employer contribute, how much does employee contribute), does it have a spouse element ?
– death in service benefit ?
– perks – subsidised canteen, free uniform, free parkin etc etc etc
– sick pay details
– do you have to do shift
– antisocial hours payments
– etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc

so *assumming** from your basic statement “At the moment google confirms that permanent like for like nursing jobs are paid the same in private sector as NHS” I would say that the public sector job is better as the salaries are the same BUT a final salary pension (even a reduced one) will be more generous/better than the DC one….. but to be fair that is an assumption

gusamc – Member

julian, db
New one on me: David Bowie? Douche Bag? Don’t bother?

gusamc, the examples I can give are the best we have at the moment and many degrees (did you see what I did there? 😉 ) more useful than your “everyone in private versus everyone in public sector” link earlier. FWIW it is also hugely easier to measure pay and conditions when they are not modified by company cars, bonuses, Christmas bonuses, staff parties/pissups, gym membership, electronic devices, staff discounts on whatever it is you sell, share options, sponsored/funded training/secondments/higher education and so on… Nice to see you taking such an interest in the details now. 😉

What the private sector is arguably better at than the NHS is putting a price on a job without the constraints of a nationally agreed pay scale with only 9* pay bands to choose from.(actually its a tiny bit more complicated, call it 12) But such is the market that with it being so close to the implementation of the health and social care act (and the privatisation of more and more previously nhs-run services) that there are still relatively few posts that exist that are directly comparable to an NHS couterpart. Those that have been privatised tendered out recently (locally I am thinking Childrens community services in Devon which was Devon Partnership NHS trust and is now Virgin Healthcare) are still subject to TUPE and no doubt the employer not wishing to rock the boat too soon. No good putting in a low bid at tender if half your staff leave before you get going.

I started typing but then deleted a whole load of answers to your list up there as there are still so many variables and it was turning into even more of an “I struggle with long sentences” post. [edit: I am sure this is old news but stw has autocorrected ‘i struggle with long sentences’ from where i typed a more well known and overused acronym. 😆 ]

Suffice to say that at the moment (and you need to consider here that there are fewer nurses nationally than posts for them to work in), nurses don’t return to similar/near identical posts in the NHS from private hospitals for the take home pay, NHS-wide t&c’s or the pension any more than they leave the NHS to ‘go private’ because they are envious of the paid-for staff parties, excellent in-service training and sponsorship for training/education or free gym memberships. (your big list omitted those. Oh and I am well envious of the first two. My next post-reg but not masters level course will be of huge help to my service, but will still cost me £1800 and all my own time an 8 months course)

If you are really bored and wish to see the balance of what we do know versus the variables from one NHS trust to the next and one private healthcare provider to the next then I will see if it is quiet enough at 4am on my night shift tonight (which by the way I will be getting paid the same per hour for as I do on a saturday daytime) to for me to conjour up some links to various employers t&cs and pension schemes and oblige you with a better answer.

If i hadn’t worked in the field for 14 years I would be just wondering about these things (like i did for prisons and schools on the last page) not offering them as examples.

Ross kemp against London fire brigade cuts

Video showing how quick and how intense a front room fire can easily be, all this bravado about walking into fires before we turn up – you were lucky, very bloody lucky

Cant argue with that video…frightening

seen the effects of a fire in a kitchen and it destroyed the kitchen and living room of my neighbours flat and almost killed him, luckily i kicked his door in and dragged him out before the fire service arived and they are based a quarter of a mile away.

Oh and national strikes are now planned for september 25 for 4 hours.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24129141

Anyone know what the wage differences for officers and governors/managers are like in privately run prisons versus state ones?

Who cares about the prison service? Not many on here that’s for sure, the majority don’t even have a clue about it & what it entails.

*waits expectantly for the 1st & very predictable Mr McKay quip*

(Dunno what the pay scales/packages are for private vs public sectors)

Who cares about the prison service?

I do. I expect a regime based not on lenience and laxity but on discipline, hard work and blind, unquestioning obedience. Feet will not touch the floor. Lives will be made a misery.

Any questions?

Oh and national strikes are now planned for september 25 for 4 hours

I take it you didn’t read it?

England and Wales only, not national.

I take it you didn’t read it?

England and Wales only, not national

Since all this devolution,own parliment stuff started ,scotland hasnt been sen as part of the uk plc by many scots, or us welsh.

They obviously got bought out, by their promised new governmnet, or basicly dont rock the boat and be nice and quiet, and hopefully we will get the right to our own governmnet.