F1 2021 – spoilers here

His dad scored 17 points total in f1, so I hardly think that comment applies 

To be fair, there were less races and a lot less points back then – only decent car he ever drove was that part first season for Benetton (and in one of those ten races they tried to flambe him!). I’m no fan of his, you understand, but fair is fair.

So, as an aside from all the “expert” comments on how the two (possibly) best racing drivers currently competing should race………..has anyone worked out the points difference permutations yet ?

If Lewis wins the next races and Max comes second – who will win overall ?

Lewis innit? (Another 75pts vs another 54 for Max)

The interesting thing is if they end up equal…I think it goes to race wins then.

It’s possible to come up with a permutation where they go into the last race on equal points

The fastest lap points make it slightly more complicated, but, disregarding those, if Hamilton wins the next two with Max second, they will be equal on points and wins. That would basically make the final race the decider. Going to brand new circuits is going to make things interesting.

Its going to be the best season I can remember then. Two unknown races and that tight on points. I bet Bottas and Perez will be employed as rolling road blocks then.

Its going to be the best season I can remember then.

Yes, I can’t remember a better season and I’ve been following F1 since Piquet and Mansell were teammates.

Two unknown races and that tight on points. I bet Bottas and Perez will be employed as rolling road blocks then.

Will be interesting to see if Gasly and Tsunoda run strategies designed to help Max and hinder Hamilton.

If equal on points it goes to race wins, then 2nd places, then 3rd places etc.

I reckon if Max had Toto as his team boss he would have won a couple of WDC already. He seems to have a lot of people backing him up when they shouldn’t be, like some sort of weird Facebook group, whereas I reckon Toto coaches and works with people to get the best out of them. Even more so when Niki was around who I reckon was not afraid to tell the talent what for when needed!

If Toto and George get on well and maximise Georges potential it’ll be a devastating combo going forward, and I don’t think Lewis will mind at all. All depends on GR’s attitude, if he is willing to learn and take advice.

“ Yes, I can’t remember a better season and I’ve been following F1 since Piquet and Mansell were teammates.”

I’ve been watching since about 1980! Yes this year is a good one for sure, but it’ll take a lot to beat the Brawn F1 year when Button won the WDC (my word that was a nail biter as the season went on wondering if the other teams would catch up to Brawn or not) or when Lewis won the WDC by a single point gained on the last corner of the last lap of the last race in Brazil with another inspired drive(how many does he have of these?!?).

The fastest lap points make it slightly more complicated, but, disregarding those,

To be fair, we probably can disregard them, both teams are more than willing to play games with their second drivers to make sure the take away fastest lap points from their rivals.

The Constructors title is far from settled too, although if Lewis closes the gap on Max that’s likely to put Mercedes further ahead

The fastest lap point probably won’t come into it as Merc or RB will use Bottas/Perez to steal fastest lap from the other with a late pit stop

Sort of. What happens if in the final race there isn’t a window to the car behind, and bringing the second driver in for tyres means their teammate wins the drivers’ championship but the team loses the constructors’? I wouldn’t want to be the strategist in that scenario 🙂 (I haven’t even bothered to figure out whether that scenario is even mathematically possible) Though you’d think they’d have that discussion internally before the race so that no-one goes postal when the call is/isn’t made.

Casual observer here who’s burning a NOW TV sports pass purchased for some other sports / events. It’s definitely more enjoyably that I remember it and the characters introduced in Netflix doc add some colour to the mid-pack / back markers.

But oh my god do I pray that the angry Dutch boy and his Spice Dad manager lose. Which is great cos it means I actually care about the outcome.

Horner and Toto have been paired for this weeks Team Principal press conference.

You only get one feed from the car at a time, they were using the rear facing camera on Verstappens car, so had to wait to download the footage. But even then it’s take nearly 2 full days to come out…

Ah, makes sense. I wrongly assumed they could tap into any camera at any time.

Interesting how they might use the fastest lap point depending on which championship is highest value.

On Sunday Perez picked up the point because he was behind Bottas and had a free stop.

Mercedes could have closed Hamiltons gap to Verstappen by another point by slotting Bottas into 4th and covering that off, although it would cost constructors points.

(I haven’t even bothered to figure out whether that scenario is even mathematically possible)

It is, I posed the question a couple of pages back. Eg. Hamilton leading with FL, Max second, Perez third, gives Hamilton the title by one point and RB the constructors. Pitting Perez takes the point from Hamilton gifting the title to Verstappen, but drops Perez to eighth and costs RB the constructors. Would they do it? Would Merc do it with Bottas if it was other way around?

I thought the team always comes first as the prize money is dependant on the constructors championship?

If there was no chance of winning the constructors but there was a chance of winning drivers then yes I can see the teams trying some funky tactics to take points away from their rivals otherwise it’ll be business as usual trying to get the team the maximum number of points.

I thought the team always comes first as the prize money is dependant on the constructors championship?

True. Probably means a lot to someone like Williams but someone like Merc or RB would the publicity and cache of a driver’s title be worth more? Who knows🤷‍♂️

Bored on a conference call earlier and was idling through the FIA site earlier.

Looks like Max did have his rear wing changed under parc ferme.

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/decision-document/2021%20Brazilian%20Grand%20Prix%20-%20Parts%20and%20parameters%20been%20replaced%20or%20changed%20during%20the%20Parc%20Ferm%C3%A9.pdf

Double post

I bet Bottas and Perez will be employed as rolling road blocks missiles

Probably means a lot to someone like Williams but someone like Merc or RB would the publicity and cache of a driver’s title be worth more?

That’s what I was thinking. The driver’s title gets more publicity. There is also quite a big connection with the winning driver and the car they were in. Sits in the history books more than who actually won the constructor’s

Given his performances so far this season bottarga is more likely to help than hinder max. He doesn’t seem to have grasped the concept of keep max behind you very well so far.

Merc debrief from the weekend opens in faceache

Non-Facebook version

Yep very good points above. When you ask someone who won in year X? They will immediately think about the driver first and then car they drove.

RB (and to a less extent Merc) are clearly not doing it for the prize money but for marketing reasons and I think having their driver win the world champ in their car is worth more.

With that in mind I can absolutely see RB sacrificing the constructors champ for Max to win. RB also give off the impression that its Team Max, he’s their “chosen one” its all about him and not the team so yeah I can totally see them using Perez just to give Max a world champ.

I’m assuming Jos has left Christian in no doubt as to the prospects for his kneecaps if he were to throw Max under the bus 😉

I think if that were to happen then the commercial future for Red Bull in the Netherlands would be along the lines of the Sun in Liverpool.

Lewis with the mic drop ? pic.twitter.com/4zG4UTmUsS

— ESPN F1 (@ESPNF1) November 18, 2021

Who cares? I won.

Pretty much sums it up

Who cares? I won.

Pretty much sums it up

We’ll see whether the stewards agree with that summary later – if they decide to admit the new camera footage as evidence for review and then make a decision to either allow everyone to drive like dicks when being passed or actually uphold the rules about forcing other drivers off the track.

We’ll see whether the stewards agree with that summary later

Whatever the stewards say, and for one, I hope they don’t change their minds about the decision the made on race  on race day; It won’t change the fact that Hamilton overtook 25 cars over a race and a half to win against almost impossible odds.

No wonder he’s unconcerned about one overtake

What a great way to get under Max’s skin. 🙂

Lando has been quite vocal questioning why he got a penalty for pushing Perez off, when Verstappen’s was much more blatant & he got away with it.
It comes back to consistency.
The argument that this was potentially for the championship so ‘let them race’ doesn’t really wash with me. You can’t say that a rule can be applied to drivers differently depending on their position in the race & likelihood of winning the championship.

I saw a rumour that Merc might be taking another engine penalty.
No idea if true, but I do wonder if they’ve worked out that losing 5 places on the grid is outweighed by turning the engine up to 12 & replacing it every race? Do they have an absolute limit on how many engines they can use?

I think all this talk about Versappen eventually being a multiple times world champion is a bit premature. Right now, the thought that this year might be his only chance might well be in his head…

This is a good point. Based on no evidence other than gut feel I sense that RB have gone all out for this season, almost like the opposite of Haas. With a big reg change coming up and potentially stable until 2026 with limited development if they have compromised this to give a better chance this year it could well be Verstappen’s best chance. He will know this and does appear to be a wee but desperate

I hope they don’t change their minds about the decision the made on race on race day

I hope they do, even if it’s just to give Max some penalty points. As Leclerc has been pointing out, if it’s ok to run other drivers off the road, then everyone’s going to be doing it all the time and it will be impossible to pass another car around the outside.

I hope they do, even if it’s just to give Max some penalty points

I do too, if only for being a **** when given the black and white.

Do they have an absolute limit on how many engines they can use?

Well I think Bottas is already on ICE number six. Lewis is on number 5 after Brazil.

Wolff confirmed that Hamilton is now left with two engines in his pool, but said he doesn’t expect the team to have to take another penalty before the end of the year – and he says he’s confident Hamilton will be able to get into the fight in Sunday’s Grand Prix.

Suggests they have 7 sets of engines?

 I sense that RB have gone all out for this season

I think so too but I can’t see that they’re going to build a dog of a car for next year though either. They know what they’re doing and Max is still a very very good driver who’s able to get the best from a car.

I could be totally wrong as well of course and if it doesn’t suit his style, you may be spot on!

I do wonder if they’ve worked out that losing 5 places on the grid is outweighed by turning the engine up to 12 & replacing it every race?

I’d already assumed from the Brazil engine change that that’s what they were doing. They know their ICE suffers significant deterioration with age, they’ve got nearly a full season of data on that power loss as well as failures, they know there are only three races left, and they know that there’s only really one car in the field that Lewis is going to have to fight hard to pass on track, and without an engine penalty the chances are he’ll have to do that anyway. They’ll have already done all the calculations weeks ago to figure out how they can maximise those engines, taking into account the penalties and the fact that a DNF from either a blown engine or getting caught up in a midfield incident at the start will blow the championship hopes. So I’d expect to see more hard charging from P7/8 on the grid.

and if it doesn’t suit his style, you may be spot on!

There’s basically zero chance of RB building a car that isn’t designed around Max’s preferences.