F1 2021 – spoilers here

Got to say it took a lot of skill by bottas to do effectively take out both red bulls, chapeau bottas!

F1’s equivalent of a 7-10 split.

Brilliant race, gutted for Seb TBH.

Got to say it took a lot of skill by bottas to do effectively take out both red bulls, chapeau bottas!

Obviously a billiards player.

There needs to be fuel left to sample at the end – if it’s all gone it can’t be tested…

300mm left, I think they said?

Not quite. There needs to be 1 litre available for testing. Only 300ml could be extracted.

Got to say it took a lot of skill by bottas to do effectively take out both red bulls, chapeau bottas!

Maybe he’s lining up a career in billiards for next season? (Edit beaten by 5 seconds! 😂)

Remember the idea a few years to have water sprinklers turn on at random time to spice up races.

If you combine it with a with a new rule whereby one driver is chosen at random to down a line of shots before the race.

I think it’ll add the perfect dose of carnage to mix things up and get the tacticians throwing out the rule book!

THAT. WAS. ****. BONKERS. 😲

I know it’ll never happen, but if you want exciting races, all you have to do is award equal points for pole position and the race and use a reverse grid.

Pity about Vettel, it’s good to see him fighting for a win again.

Feel sorry for Albon having to recreate that all week…

Maldonado to replace Bottas next year at Mercedes, with Mazepin as reserve driver.

FACT

😉

To be honest I reckon Susan Tully will partner Lewis, she appears in this thread more than any other person. 😂😂

Maldonado to replace Bottas next year at Mercedes, with Mazepin as reserve driver.

Maldonado is still in the drivers heads…

“Feel sorry for Albon having to recreate that all week”

Perhaps the FIA could troll RB by asking them to recreate it for the stewards. Rain to be provided by Red Bull tears.

Crikey, Karen Horner’s at it again 🤣
https://www.gpblog.com/en/amp/90644/red-bull-on-grid-penalty-bottas-makes-up-for-that-in-two-laps-at-spa.html

“What a great strategy by Mercedes: Valtteri did a super job for them today by taking out both our cars,” sore loser much? 🤣

Reading between the lines it sounds like Horner’s idea of “strategy” is for one of the drivers to make a split-second decision to gamble on a dodgy move that has just as much chance of ruining one team’s race as the other. I mean, make of it what you will, but I guess it’s touched a nerve.

Personally I was just gutted that Norris and Leclerc were taken out.

Edit: to be fair to Horner, the quote here is a little different, and followed up by some rather more circumspect and rational points:
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.horner-praises-red-bull-crew-for-verstappen-repair-job-after-bottas-does-a.6knHvGmK8453NzGmyx1Ja4.html

Aye, “gpblog” seems a bit suspect. Would be a shame if the cap ended up affecting the championship, don’t think anyone really wanted it for those reasons

Personally I was just gutted that Norris and Leclerc were taken out.

Yes, same here!

Would be a shame if the cap ended up affecting the championship

Would it be out of the question to exclude like for like repairs to damage sustained in crashes from the cap?

I could see something like that being introduced. Maybe either other teams agreeing with the work or the FIA overseeing. In the meantime, there could be some interesting leaps in carbon fibre repair coming!

I would like them to make parts that are stronger and more resilient to at least smaller impacts. Maybe that will come about if they don’t budge on the cost cap. It’s daft that a slight nudge can put someone out of a race or cause a puncture to either car or following cars from sharp debris.

Basically Karen is finding out there isn’t a bottomless piggy bank!!!

Would be a shame if the cap ended up affecting the championship

Financial limitations have always affected it though. Generally, there’s only been three or four well-funded teams that could afford to keep throwing new parts at their cars for the complete season and they were the only ones that ever had a shot at winning titles. The others always had to make tough decisions about when to stop development and would have to patch up damaged parts to get through the year. One unlucky weekend with both cars written off could ruin their whole year. What the cost cap has done is put all the teams on the same footing, and the big ones aren’t used to having to make those budgeting decisions. The whole point of the cost cap was to affect the championship by limiting the advantage of the big teams, now they’re complaining that it’s having the intended effect.

As above the “lesser” teams have always been budget capped and arguably run more risk of midfield damage. Horner just needs to put on his big boy pants and get on with the job in hand.

The difference is that now there is no option to scratch around looking for more cash for any team (that is at the cap). As mentioned, none of the teams that hit their personal “cap” in the past were anywhere near the title anyway. So I stand by my comment, see also: when things like mechanicals get in the way of a title fight.

Didn’t Toto have a very similar gripe after Russel wiped out Bottas?

Didn’t Toto have a very similar gripe after Russel wiped out Bottas?

He wasn’t at all happy with Russell and jokingly threatened to place him in the Renault Clio Cup! 🙂

Binotto has now said the guilty team should pay for the other teams damage. Ridiculous…every claim would end up in court arguing over who was at fault and the real cost of repair.

Red Bull should be careful what they wish for… I honestly can’t see Verstappen going to the end of the season without causing an incident himself.

Binotto has now said the guilty team should pay for the other teams damage.

Could you imagine the look on Ron Dennis’s face at Spa in 1998? 🙂

But yeah, that’s just about the best idea anyone’s had to destroy the entire sport, let alone a single team.

As mentioned, none of the teams that hit their personal “cap” in the past were anywhere near the title anyway.

Because they were limited in how much development they could do. Red Bull and Merc have the same budget cap as anyone else. They can afford to repair their cars. The problem is that the money to repair the cars will limit how much they can spend on developing next year’s cars. That’s exactly the problem that smaller teams had in the past and exactly what the cost cap was supposed to achieve.

Also, I’m pretty sure that Williams in the 90s and Renault in the Alonso championship years had much smaller budgets than Ferrari and McLaren, but they were very careful about managing their budgets. I remember reading an interview with someone from Williams (Patrick Head, perhaps) about the active suspension. Williams used off-the-shelf aerospace hydraulic actuators which cost $5 000 apiece or something, so they refurbished them and reused them. Apparently, Ferrari used to just throw the used ones in the bin, they basically just had no budget limit. The big teams have just gotten lazy and are used to spending their way out of problems.

I know there’s not much love for Max on this thread but…Driving the RB to a point (later awarded 2 obviously) with half the floor missing and most of the aero bargeboards on the offside ripped away…and only a few seconds behind the Williams pair (both undamaged)

Props.

It would probably ruin the sport if it became a post-race litigation contest recovering costs from competitors. It’s racing. Cars collide, drivers like de Cesaris and Maldonado mangled their own teams’ cars frequently. Accident investigations should be about improving driver safety, not recovering costs from competitors.

Didn’t Toto have a very similar gripe after Russel wiped out Bottas?

I’m going to say, I don’t think Russell will be in the Mercedes team any day soon as he’s got a reputation for being equally “elbows out” as Verstappen, and having just signed a 2 year deal with them, I think Hamilton will say no to it. As after all, who needs that sort of nonsense going on from your team mate. Hamilton will want some-one who’s just “Happy to be here” (Like Perez)  and understands that his role is to be the No2. I don’t think Russell wants to be anyone’s No.2

I think you might be right @nickc. I’ve noticed that Bottas seems to be doing his absolute best to to the team line too, versus his more recalcitrant attitude earlier in the season.

Maybe the 2022 design should be modified to include a giant solid rubber ring round the car, then they could play bumper cars and stop whinging

So do we think Perez will get a second season in the Red Bull?

I’m really not sure what they’ll do.

Gasly needs to move somewhere, he can’t stay in the 2nd team forever. And next season may be a good time to return to the 1st team as the cars will be a re-set for everyone.

Yuki needs way more experience and Alex is busy doing crash reconstructions! 🙂

No hate for Max here, he’s got some growing up to do but so have his mentors, CH, HM and daddy. I reckon most see it as Max being let down badly by those around him. Compare that to Hamilton having his own father, Ron (bit is a whinger still) Dennis, Toto Wolf and Nikki flippin’ Lauda in his corner.

You’re right nickc, he didn’t getting the credit he deserved for dragging a car held together by gaffa tape into the points.

RB have had a nightmare filling the second seat alongside Verstappen, either Verstappen is a genius who can wring amazing performances out of a recalcitrant car, or he has a car designed around him and his specific feedback requirements. Since Ricciardo left, RB have had a habit of putting unpolished, but talented rookies in that second car and we’ve seen the likes of Albon & Gasly struggle to get on top of it.

Tsunoda is on a shoogly peg. Yes ideally he needs a second season to get more experience but that’s not the game Red Bull play with their young drivers.

Perez is an odd one. He seems to perform best on some sort of amazing “recovery” drive where he gets punted off near the start and has to fight his way back to fourth place.

When he starts in fourth he ends up fourth or fifth (after getting passed by Norris near the end of the race).

I’d say he’s basically at the same level as Bottas. Bottas is better on a Saturday but struggles if he finds himself out of position. Perez isn’t as good at qualifying but is good enough in the race to get back to his customary fourth place most of the time.

thols2

I think you’re missing my point a bit, which is simply that crash damage repercussions from earlier in the season is a crap thing to get in the way of a title fight. Same as when a random puncture or whatever gets in the way

nickc
I’m going to say, I don’t think Russell will be in the Mercedes team any day soon as he’s got a reputation for being equally “elbows out”

That didn’t really have much to do with the Russell-Bottas crash though. OTOH putting a wheel on the grass and going into him like a spear…..

MV driving the damaged car was no biggie, it’s not as if he did much on the track afterwards.

Compare to Alonso who pretty much dragged kicking and screaming a dead Mcclaren with 2 punctures into the pits at Baku, the much more significant damage to the car went unrepaired yet he still outperformed his team mate.

Not the first time he’s done it either. Legend.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/43973625.amp

I never thought much of Alonso in the past but it turns out he is a properly nice guy with a racing mentality and ability most other racers would pay good money for!

I know there’s not much love for Max on this thread

I think everyone holds him in very high respect for his driving ability, but he is a very aggressive driver and seems to expect other drivers to let him through to avoid an accident. He came across as very immature and petulant when he first joined Red Bull, but then he matured and started driving like true title contender. This whole Silverstone incident really showed him and Red Bull at their worst. It was a racing incident between two guys battling for the title. Hamilton was judged to be more at fault, but it wasn’t a deliberate crash on his part. Verstappen had a faster car so conceding the place to Hamilton would have been the smart thing to do. Afterwards, Red Bull were entitled to a bit of grumbling about it, but then they should have shut up and got on with preparing for Hungary. The Albon recreation was just laughable, did they really expect anyone to take that dumb shit seriously?

I don’t think Russell will be in the Mercedes team any day soon as he’s got a reputation for being equally “elbows out” as Verstappen, and having just signed a 2 year deal with them, I think Hamilton will say no to it.

Hamilton doesn’t make the decision and doesn’t have a veto over his teammate. Russell is very fast, teams don’t care if drivers are “elbows out” if they are fast. I think it’s almost certain that Russell will replace Bottas next year.

Red Bull are not going to promote Tsunoda next year. Gasly would be the obvious candidate, but I think they’ve already ruled that out. Bottas is the only other candidate that I can think of besides retaining Perez. My money is on sticking with Perez.

I just don’t like MV cos he’s turned into a nasty potty mouthed violent bully like his dad.
Couldn’t give a crap about his driving ability.
Still not sure how he got away with physically attacking another driver in the pits, I would have banned him for life for that, there’s no excuse.

Hamilton won’t care less who partners him. He tends to work on his own and if the threat is that someone will be faster than him he’ll just see that as a challenge.