[Closed] Explain Campag to me....

ffs, just buy a new bike 😉

wwaswas - Member
ffs, just buy a new bike

Its not about a new bike. I'm just interested.

Then start a "what training for my road bike" thread 😛

They're Italian, therefore like everyone else, but subtley different, and better looking.

Shimano - big lever for big gears and brakes, small lever for small.
Campag - big lever does brakes, small lever does big gears, even smaller lever does small gears
SRAM - big lever does brakes, small lever does big or small gears depending on if you push it a long way (bigger gear) or short (smaller gear).

[i]I'm just interested. [/i]

fair enough.

Campag wears in whereas Shimano wears out.

Campag wears in and.......

a certain bedding in period is also to be expected with Shimano.

People pay over the odds for a campag groupset because they believe it wears in.

Campag is nice looking on your niche euro frame. Well it is on mine. The reality seems to be that bottom bracket bearings wear out quicker and are harder to replace, gears are more difficult to fine tune.

People pay over the odds for a campag groupset because they believe it wears in.

have you seen the price of Shimano Chainsets and STi's? Campag is far cheaper. Looks nicer IMO as well.

Yes the rear mechs aren't cheap, but compared to Sram they are.

And don't forget the £90 chain rings that have razor sharp teeth after a couple of thousand miles. 'Wear-in', my arse. Looks nice nice tho

It's just a personal preference thing. I prefer the way my record gears work and are no harder to set up than anything else.

And the bearings are easy to change just different

Campag is slightly different in use so that some people will prefer it while others will prefer Shimano or SRAM. It's a preference.

Some people believe that riding Campag is somehow more 'real' and that because it's Italian it's got more soul than Shimano or SRAM

Some people believe that Campag wears in. IMO, it's just stiffer in function when new (eg shifters) but the drivetrain itself wears out about the same.

Some people believe that Campag looks nicer (read less industrial/functional/technical)

Some people believe that Italian bikes MUST have Campag. Interestingly Italians generally don't believe this and have no issue putting SRAM or Shimano on a classic Italian frame.

There's a lot of BS about it. By all means use Campag, just don't kid yourself that it'll really make any difference to your riding.

(Long term Campag user here, I just like the way it feels)

Campag - cables hidden under bar tape, looks tidier.
Shimano - stick out of shifter, looks untidy.
my 2p...

So is the little lever on the site of the shifter accessible from the drops? And what about this "special" chain tool? Is that needed by the day to day rider?

Other than that I agree it looks nice, but like everything road, its about "feel" as well?

"rattle, rattle, KER-CHUNK, rattle" - sound of Campag changing gear

Some people think that is a good thing

Campag - cables hidden under bar tape, looks tidier.
Shimano - stick out of shifter, looks untidy.

Really?

To me Delta brakes are the epitome of Campag - looked amazing but didn't really work.

Campag - cables hidden under bar tape, looks tidier.
Shimano - stick out of shifter, looks untidy.

wears in

Nonsense is spoken about wearing in and wearing out. It's just another product that allows you to change gear.

I went campag as i have hands like a girl and find the lever shape and hoods fit my had better than the flatter topped new Shimano

Also - most new STI's from Shimano have hidden cabling now.

Campag - cables hidden under bar tape, looks tidier.
Shimano - stick out of shifter, looks untidy.
my 2p...

not for the last couple of years.

It's been a while since I used Campag (I had Daytona) as I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. I'd used Shimano before this (admittedly Dura Ace, but several years old Dura Ace). The Campag was awful - clunky, and didn't survive wet rides very well at all, and the chainrings and mechs wore out in a flash. I didn't get on with the shifters either for braking or shifting.

Very much a Shimano man these days, but as already mentioned it's just down to personal preference.

Campag - cables hidden under bar tape, looks tidier.
Shimano - stick out of shifter, looks untidy

Shimano have rear-exiting cables down to 105 these days so like andy says, unless you're buying towards the bottom, that's not a distinction.

Very happy with Shimano though, not sure I'd go to the expense of changing on my current road bike as I don't see how that'd help my legs get stronger which is my main problem

Isn't there a strictly enforced law that states that you have to have Campag to match your Rapha top?

Would anyone else like............

Fulcrum cranks?

i.e. campag cranks (which look infinately nicer than shimano) made by campag but without having to break the rules with missmatched brands?

Isn't there a strictly enforced law that states that you have to have Campag to match your Rapha top?

Isn't there a strictly enforced law that states that you have to have Campag to match your Rapha top?

I've got some Rapha tops (OK, baselayers) and have 105 on the road bike and X9 on the MTB.

Andy

[edit] wrong thread

From my experience, the low end groups aren't all that, but the higher end stuff is lovely.
Got Chorus carbon 11 speed on my posh bike and its spot on and pretty 🙂
CX bike has Centaur 10 speed chainset (ultra torque) and cheap mirage shifters and rear mech.
The new ergo lever hoods are much better than the previous ones which i find a bit too small.

Had a play with some SRAM double tap levers on a mates bike and quite liked them, but not really a fan of the shimano 2 lever set up however smooth the changing might be.

"So is the little lever on the site of the shifter accessible from the drops?"

As long as you dont have your levers set too high then yes.
Ideal for banging down multiple gears when sprinting/coming out of corners on the drops.
Note, this only works on the higher end kit as low end stuff only allows one gear at a time with the thumb shifter (like cheap shimano).

Campag allows for dropping multiple cogs and trimming of the front.
It has a more mechanical feedback when changing.
Campag freehubs remind you not to coast.
It looks nicer (maybe)

American frame and Italian groupset here.

Tested the Ultegra Di2 recently, and it is lovely (auto trims front)

djaustin - I can trim my front mech (it's ultegra from a few years back). Can almost get the full range of gears in the big ring.

Campag is like shimano, only clunkier and with poorer parts availability.

I thought it was a shame that Shimano bowed to fashion with the gear cables under the tape - it increases friction and makes cable replacement more of a faff.

12 years of Campy stuff on the road bike tells me there might be a quality question here, and it looks great.

Campag was seen as the best kit until Shimano came along and overtook them with a bigger development budget in the 80s .I still love my 80s Campag Record large flange hubs though and my best bikr still has late 90s Campag 8 speed as does my tt bike .Just wish I could find an 11 /21 8 speed casette for it

Borrowed a bike with veloce to see if I could ride a road bike again and it came close to putting me off. Clumsy and agricultural, and was set up and maintained by a campag tifosi. going to 105 was bigger than performance gap between deore and xtr.

Higher end stuff might be better but it was awful.

Edit; I can trim my 105. It just doesn't need it as much as the veloce did. Reminded me of old grip shift, if you need to put half a dozen steps in to change 2 or 3 rings you made it wrong.

Campag is like shimano, only clunkier and with poorer parts availability.

My understanding was that you could buy parts for campag (certainly could in the past) whereas shimano kit tends to be far less serviceable.

makes cable replacement more of a faff.

Makes changing outers a faff I'd agree. Inners I can change with no problem

There seems to be less between Sram/Shimano/Campag than ever these days.

I use Campag but thats just because I'm used to it. I have a 7yr old Record 10s bike that still works beautifully. When I got a groupset earlier this year I went for Record against going for Red/DuraAce since I've had great longevity out of my Campag, plus I never have to think about what I'm doing when changing gear.

I bought a Cycling Plus this week for the first time in ages and I don't think that there was hardly a single Campag bike in it. Certainly Campag used to be more expensive but with the Yen exchange rate there isn't much in it these days.

My understanding was that you could buy parts for campag (certainly could in the past) whereas shimano kit tends to be far less serviceable.

Legacy support for campag is awful! In contrast, you can still buy shimano 7 speed cassettes...

Clumsy and agricultural

My experience of Veloce. Put me off Campag stuff

I like the positive/agricultural (delete according to bias) feel to the Veloce shifters. I also like the look of the stuff but admit the Veloce brakes are sh1t.

But then I have a Bianchi, an Alfa Romeo and Fiat 500... maybe I'm biased?

I think mtbing could do with campag, we lack varying standards what with different sized wheels bbs headsets. ......

I've just swapped from Campag Carbon Chorus to Shimano Ultegra and don't regret it. I was never really happy with Campag for a number of reasons-

- The shift buttons are in a strange place, like Shimano Sora, and it's nowhere near as intuitive as the alternatives.

- The shift levers, even on Chorus, feel VERY cheap- very nasty plastic that's actually very easy to break (I've seen this happen a lot on Athena).

- The gear shift is very clunky, it's not a nice clunk like Sram, it's very agricultural.

- It's a lot more fussy than Shimano with set up.

- Minor parts are very specific, unbelievably expensive (unique chainring bolts for your carbon cranks sir? That'll be £40 please, and no, we don't have any in stock).

- Parts availability is dreadful- ordering minor bits for customers through Chickens often takes weeks, if not months, if you need something small. Also, spares for older stuff (9 speed and below) are near non-existant unless you're willing to wait for them to come for Italy, again, taking a very, very long time.

On the plus side, their crank design is by far the best and I quite liked the brakes. It also looked a lot nicer on my bike (steel, Italian), although I think it looks awful on a lot of modern carbon bikes. But there were a lot of little things that nagged at me, and, having learnt from other customer's mistakes when they were left without a bike for months waiting for a tiny part, I thought I'd move over to Shimano and don't regret it at all.

Wierd.
Just above. The little lever is in the wrong place?! No its not, its spot on and at least the brake lever doesn't move.
Campag parts hard to find??
Ever tried to mend an A STi?
My main objection the Shimano is based around the trend that the modern world has that its ok to build in redundancy with new parts and special tools. I nwould buy a Campag chain either by the way. Nasty visuals as well. Just look at those road chainsets. Designed by a committee of 3 years olds and olympic planners! Compare with a classic Record version.

Sorry missed a bit. Can you buy an internal spring for a STI?

surely the whole point is that if you need the appeal explaining then its not for you same goes if you have to ask the price innit...

I can see the appeal its just the logical part of my brain over rules and shimano's broader compatibility and availability at lower price points seem to win out...

I have to laugh at all this talk about Campag being Italian as almost all of it is made in Romania these days....

[url=] http://www.bicycleretailer.com/news/newsDetail/6158.html [/url]

Buy it because you like it, but not because you think you are getting want an Italian groupset to match your [s]Italian[/s] sorry Taiwanese Bianchi 😉

… and it goes well with my Polish Fiat 500 😉

Some love Shimano/Campag/SRAM
Some hate Shimano/Campag/SRAM
Some choose on what they like

I like SRAM.

Shimano? Feels too vague when shifting for me. Also, don't really get on with the shape of the hoods. Otherwise, yeah, it's OK.

Campag? That stupid thumb lever. FFS. Get rid of it, would you? It doesn't work on the drops for anyone with normal hands. Oh, and it's over priced for what it is (Romanian mass-produced, as mentioned above). The equivalent SRAM or Shimano tends to be cheaper and just work better for me.

SRAM? Just works for me. I like the feeling of the shifting, I like the shape of the hoods, I like the way it's all priced and put together.

Ever tried to mend an A STi?

Dunno, I bought some DA off someones old race bike and it's been on mine for the last 3 years. Before that I had Tiagra, which lasted 7 years, untill I sold them and they still get used daily by my neighbour on his commuter.

surely the whole point is that if you need the appeal explaining then its not for you

Nope, the point is when judged objectively some of it is poor in function. Like I said, I borrowed a bike equipped with Veloce to see if I could physically ride a road bike after 20yrs of exclusively riding MTB (spinal problem stopped me riding HTs let alone road bikes). No preconceptions, no purchase justification. The whole road bike experience was alien, but the clunky clumsy poor shifting did much to ruin it. I'd never had any MTB gearing work as badly. Riding a bike with 105 was a revelation. I have since bought one (fitted with 105) and have got "into" road riding. I appreciate the heritage of Campag and long-established european brands, am not a fan of the redundancy/planned obsolescence/non-serviceability of Shimano, but I have been put of using or owning campag full stop.

I'd be interested to try Sram, and competition is better than monopoly.

For campag though theres no point having an entry-level group set if it deters entry.

edit: bristol, bust link brings me back to this page in some internet-breaking loop?

Campagnolo hirth joint is why it's better than shitmano [img] [/img]

Crftom...how is that a reason?

I have some campag stuff but they've always been copiers and shimano the innovators.

I have some campag stuff but they've always been copiers and shimano the innovators.

not exactly true,

Who invented the Quick Release?

Who invented the slant parallelogram rear mech?

Who released the first electronic gears?

End of the day, they all work, just go with what feels comfortable. It isn't the case now where pros are polishing rear mechs because they don't like what they're given to ride.

Indexing, hyperglide, sti, OS BB axle dual pivot...

bottom bracket, have you ever looked at Magic Motorcyles, Bullseye, etc. I seem to remember TIoga Revolvers were over sized, Bontrager had a working prototype welded over sized BB.

hyperglide, well it was an advance on Uniglide, but yes i believe it was shimano.
Sti, if you mean combined shifter then it was one solution,
Dual pivot, ever seen a Weinman dual pivot? shimano works but not the first.

If your talking about innovation how about Biopace?

I use Campag becuase because I love the shifters (hood size and lever arrangement are perfect for my hands), the FD trims (SRAM does this as well) and gear shift is easier to use. I dislike the flappy brake lever that shimano use, it feels wrong to me and I find SRAM double tap easy to misshift up instead of down or visa versa.

Oh and Campag's kit is pretty. Shimano's cranks are just ugly and SRAM's cranks are too in your face with there grahics but that again as with the above is personal preference.

Shimano are hardly the inovators folk make them out to be. They have come up with a few new things but there real sucess is marketing and market pentration. Everyone copies each other in the bicycle world. There were egg shaped ring 100 years before Shimano made Biopace. In the 1890's some one was playing with suspension bikes. Suntour and Mavic did electronic shifting before Campag/shimano did it.

Shimano's indexing for the rear is a genuine inovation, shame they applied it the front where it's not needed.

Use what ever system you perfer, they all work well.

To the guy put off campag by trying veloce, it is there entry level kit. I use and it's fine for me, shifting is a bit clunky sometimes (mostly it's quite slick but not 105 standard) but on the whole it is fine. If you try there higher end groups set things get better like going from sora to 105.

I can't believe you've all got this far without mentioning Campag wheels.

Campag wheels are awesome.

Now also available with Shimano freehub bodies! Just for reference though, you can't gouge an aluminium Campag freehub body, because the spline has been engineered deep enough.

I use SRAM offroad, Shimano onroad. Never understood the massive amounts of vitriol people pour on groupsets. If it works for you, great, if it doesn't get something else.

I didnt realise Campag did mtb groupsets??

Bikewhisperer, they sell them under the fulcrum brand to presumably get away from the groupset rivalry. Got some Racing 7s on other halfs bike and as budget system wheels go they are at least as good as my aksiums.

I didnt realise Campag did mtb groupsets??

not for a long time, Record Or, Olympus and Centaur, they also had a range of rims, Atex, Mirox, may have been others can't remember.

The campag cantilevers looked very graftonesqe and the thumbshifters were tiny.

Compact drive, i believe the chainrings used the same spline as the sprockets, rather than bolts.

Campag Euclid 1991
[img] [/img]

And the others:

http://www.campyonly.com/catalogs/1991.html

So at the risk of a couple of the guys here rolling thier eyes, I'm looking at 2 italian bikes. One is Campag Veloce, the other Shimano Ultegra.

The latter is £100 more expensive (£1450 vs £1550).

Worth paying the extra?

For £100 I'd go Ultegra over Veloce. That's a 2nd from top Shimano gruppo against the 5th level Campy. Now if it was Centaur/Athena vs Ultegra....mmmm.

kryton have you learnt anything?

Simply to many unknown variables too answer your question, even before one takes personal opinion into account.

bikewhisperer - Member
I can't believe you've all got this far without mentioning Campag wheels.

Campag wheels are awesome.

Now also available with Shimano freehub bodies! Just for reference though, you can't gouge an aluminium Campag freehub body, because the spline has been engineered deep enough.

I think you'll find Shimano make no alu freehub bodies, it's been the market dominance of their system that has created this problem as other companies have used alu freehubs to get the weight down. Only AC ha a half decent solution beyond Dura Ace's ti freehub.

Inflatable saddles

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23666168@N04/2810118001/

cynic-al - Member
kryton have you learnt anything?

I want a carbon bike. I actually found a 3rd option.

So now practically speaking, its a White Bianchi with 105 or Black Bianchi with Ultegra, £200 price difference, both with Turquoise highlights.

Or a Campag Veloce Cinelli...

Help! (Lol!)

I want a carbon bike...

both with Turquoise highlights.

Answers to my question...

But my advice? - high end Italian stuff is overpriced tat, go Bianchi.

http://www.podiumcafe.com/2010/8/25/1649602/fall-from-grace-by-freddy-maertens

"Take, for instance, the 1973 World Championships, which Maertens describes thus: "although I wouldn't say it was the greatest disappointment of my career I would definitely say it deserves the title of the most sordid machination ever practiced on me." The race, he says, was less about the struggle between rival riders and more about the "the commercial power struggle between two rival cycle component manufacturers. On the one side was the established Italian make, Campagnolo, and on the other side was the Japanese firm, Shimano, which was trying to win a slice of the European market." According to Maertens, the day before the race he overheard the head of Campag telling his compatriot and Flandria team-mate Walter Godefroot "At all costs Shimano must not win on Sunday." Guess which groupset Flandria rode? Yup, you guessed right: Shimano.

Three laps out from the finish, it was Merckx and Maertens in their Belgium jerseys riding a breakaway with Spain's Luis Oca?a (fresh from success in the Tour) and Italy's Felice Gimondi. Like Merckx, Gimondi was riding Campag gears. Oca?a rode Zeus. Maertens decided that helping Merckx win would be the wisest move - he recalled what happened to fellow Belgian Benoni Beheydt after he beat Rik Van Looy in 1963. "I was too young for anything like that. Imagine how the Belgian people would have reacted to it. If I had wanted to see serious doubts cast on the healthy progress of my future cycling career, all it would have needed was for me to do such a thing."

So Maertens led Merckx out in the sprint. Merckx instructed him to go early. Only Merckx - Maertens says - had blown up and didn't have a sprint in his legs. Gimondi had no difficulty coming around them both and taking the title: "Only then did I realise that I had been knifed in the back by Merckx and that because his own chance had gone he would have rather seen the Italian win on a Campagnolo-equipped bike than me.""

cynic-al - Member

I want a carbon bike...

both with Turquoise highlights.

Answers to my question...

But my advice? - high end Italian stuff is overpriced tat, go Bianchi.

I though Bianchi was Italian?

I'm also guessing that (currently happily using Tiagra), saving £200 by going 105 isn't a massive detrement to performance? Although I guess if you were buying 1 bike you might buy the best at the time of purchase I guess... But also white bikes are faster right? 🙂

So, white Carbon Bianchi Sempre 105 for £1365?

(Cynic-al, somwething that I didn't tell you is that in the last week I bought some 4ZA aero wheels off the classifieds - they'll fit on the Bianchi's but not the Cinelli of course......)

http://www.campyonly.com/history.html

Wtf.

I've been reading lots of Campag Veloce reviews and they are positive, in fact some mention a class up on 105.

??

it might be worth adding that having recently ridden a bike with what I think was 2009 veloce, those shifters are indeed horrible. The upshift (easier gear at the back) is so vague - worse than any Shimano I've ever used even!

The good news is that previous and more recent campag (including veloce) isn't like that and has the lovely Campag definite shifting.

I treid some cheap ergo with plastic levers, they were almost useless, how campag sell them with a straight face I don't know. Not sure if they're veloce tho.

those were xenon. ime they actually worked passably but not a patch on proper brakes.

I am referring to the 2011 Campag Veloce 10 speed.

whatever they were, shimano never sold anything so shite!

tis true. campag's desperate attempt to get on low end bikes...