evolution/creationism

Lifer I was joking, I do believe you . My point wasn't whether the higgs boson exists or not it was aboout looking for answers, and in that sense there really isn't much difference between religion and science. Except for the fact that science builds huge circular place of worship and the anglican church builds cross shaped places of worship. Plus you can drink in a church I don't think you can drink whilst operating the hadron colider.

As for proving something that does exist like the god particle? People believe it exsts so much they look for it, then they can't find it so they rationalise about it. It sounds alot like religion to me.

Er, it's not the same at all. The existence of the 'god particle' is predicted by the Standard Model of elementary particles, which has so far stood up to about 50 years of pretty rigorous experimentation. It's not a matter of 'believing' it exists and then rationalising it if you can't find it. How is that like religion?

You won't take me seriously at ALL? Or just when talking about the origins of the universe?

What about when talking about say, servicing Pace suspension forks?

The name God Particle is not something used by the physicist anyway it used by the media. The Higgs Boson is not considered to be so important as to need a moniker such as that.

So in 50 years of experimentation it hasn't been found . So do you create a new model or keep looking and keep looking until you find something that vaguley resembles what you want then hurrah you have almost created a religion. If you still don't find it you build an even bigger churc, I mean collider until you do find it. What happens if the hadron colider doesn't work will that mean a new model will be created or someone will build an even bigger collider? I think number 2

molgrips – Member

You won't take me seriously at ALL? Or just when talking about the origins of the universe?

What about when talking about say, servicing Pace suspension forks?

Maybe, depends on how woolly you are about it… 😛

I have called it both. I think Higgs Boson sounds better. It could be a trick shot in snooker 😀

alex222 – Member

So in 50 years of experimentation it hasn't been found . So do you create a new model or keep looking and keep looking until you find something that vaguley resembles what you want then hurrah you have almost created a religion. If you still don't find it you build an even bigger churc, I mean collider until you do find it. What happens if the hadron colider doesn't work will that mean a new model will be created or someone will build an even bigger collider? I think number 2

This is drivel. Da Vinci proposed that man could fly in machines, it took 400 years to prove him right. Taking 50 years to find something doesn't make it invalid, it just makes it hard to find.

Well y'know, you have to undo the thing, then pull the other thing, and it should all work out, I guess…

FWIW I am an atheist. But I support others rights to believe what they want. I also maintain that for a belief to be widely cherished, then by definition it has value.

Da Vinci proposed that man could fly in machines

Da Vinci did some nice drawings of stuff he pulled out of his arse that showed a total lack of understanding of simple Physics. Genius? I'm not sure.

So ratinalising something does exist beause its the only way to complete this model and then not finding it and then just saying well it must because of this current model of elementary particles which has stood up for 50 years before hand and we wouldn't want to rock the boat or think outside the box because all of this hard work comes undone. That actually sounds alot like religion to me.

People have been looking for god for well over 2000 years does this mean that he does exist then?

But science is constantly rocking the boat and thinking outside the box.

molgrips – Member

Well y'know, you have to undo the thing, then pull the other thing, and it should all work out, I guess…

FWIW I am an atheist. But I support others rights to believe what they want. I also maintain that for a belief to be widely cherished, then by definition it has value.

I do not object to people believing what they want. It's the acting on those beliefs I object to. I do object to religion and creationism being taught in schools, unless as a form of secularist observation, with lots of ridicule thrown in.

Ok you lot have stopped amusing me now, I'm off to do some work. Or go home and fit my new 203mm disc that just arrived..

No problem with religion being taught, but it must be inclusive and expansive and be in specific Religious Education lessons.

And don't get me started on the Lords Spiritual.

So ratinalising something does exist beause its the only way to complete this model and then not finding it and then just saying well it must…

but they haven't "not found it". LHC is the first attempt to look for it.

It's not like they started by looking in their pockets, then checked down the side of the couch, tried the junk drawer in the kitchen and slowly built up to the point where they had a 9 billion dollar, 27km donut to look for it!

The Higgs Boson is not considered to be so important as to need a moniker such as that.

But important enough to build a big ol' tunnel in the ground and nearly bring about the end of the world looking for it. Didn't they nearly create a black hole or something? 😯 Quite scary this science stuff…

Lifer in theory I agree except for the fact that astro physisists can only be open minded when they want to be. When some one questions what they are looking at it suddenly becomes absolute. ie toy19 gets taken to china town and then throws his toys from the pram.

So ratinalising something does exist beause its the only way to complete this model and then not finding it and then just saying well it must because of this current model of elementary particles which has stood up for 50 years before hand and we wouldn't want to rock the boat or think outside the box because all of this hard work comes undone. That actually sounds alot like religion to me.

All this shows is your total lack of understanding of what you're talking about. What exactly do you think physicists have been doing for the last 50 years?

No but there is a theory out there that can't be proved untl the higgs boson is found and then all the answers are asked then it all stops and the physisits go to their rocking chairs and polish their torroid transformers?

Didn't they nearly create a black hole or something?

no.

Luckily, a man-made black hole won’t be a roaring monster that gobbles up planets and stars. Rather, science expects an incredibly tiny baby black hole, much smaller than an atom. What's more, it should evaporate immediately. Black holes give off radiation. And our black hole would be so incredibly small and hot, it would radiate itself away in less than 0,00000000000000000000000001 seconds! That’s why physicists feel pretty confident about working with the LHC. No problem if a black hole shows up. According to the laws of physics, black holes from the lab just shouldn’t be stable.

Lifer in theory I agree except for the fact that astro physisists can only be open minded when they want to be

I don't understand, can you give any examples of them being close minded until they wanted to be open minded?

People have been looking for god for well over 2000 years does this mean that he does exist then?

its up to you to PROVE he doesnt.

I love this old chestnut, cause all the "dullard religious types" are shot down in flames over stuff "aspiringmiddleclassworldsciencebods" have seen on TV

dont get me wrong, im no god botherer, but PERSONALLY i have yet to prove one way or another which is more appropriate. sure i can take other peoples information, and trim it down, and decide what i think is useful, and what isnt, but at the end of the day, all it is is an assesment of information, nothing more.

grown up`s in imaginary friends shocker 😆

To go back to the original point – can someone explain to me why anyone would think religion and evolution are somehow at odds?

It seems to me that if I were some sort of supernatural creator being, and I wanted to stuff a planet full of interesting life forms, I might invent evolution as the tool I'd use to do that.

I'm not religious, but I can't see why anyone who is would worry about evolution being some sort of threat to religion, because it isn't.

What's more, it should evaporate immediately

"Should"

spose if it doesnt, no ones gonna tell them off?

All this shows is your total lack of understanding of what you're talking about. What exactly do you think physicists have been doing for the last 50 years?

How? They have been colliding sub attomic particle close to the spped of light to find other sub attomic particles to complete this model yet all the time they were looking for the higgs boson and found some other stuff instead? At which point they said hmm were not near finding it. Shall we give up? No this model must be right we've spent 50 years not quite being able to prove it so we'll build an even bigger collider so that we can get afew fractions of a percent closer to the speed of light to actually find it. What if we don't find it? Well at that point its time to build a yet bigger collider until we do. What if we never find it? We keep buiding until the whole world is a collider and then surely we will find it. What if we don't? Are you a none believer? Kill him!

Or something like that.

Lifer. See the entire thread. At no point does any 'scientist' go um yeah I suppose we could be wrong but we like to look for the sake of it? Its all very absolute and uncompromising, much like religion.

'Or something like that'

Wow you've got your hands on the minutes haven't you?

olly that is my point.

To go back to the original point – can someone explain to me why anyone would think religion and evolution are somehow at odds?

Because God created man.

Man didn't evolve from apes.

Alex – are there actually any astrophysicists contributing to this thread?

Lifer so you agree god did create man? 😀 How did you know I got the minutes. It took alot of digging but it was worth it.

alex222 – Member
Lifer. See the entire thread. At no point does any 'scientist' go um yeah I suppose we could be wrong but we like to look for the sake of it? Its all very absolute and uncompromising, much like religion.

Science is

"I think this is how it works and now I'll test to see"

These debates always seem to descend into nonsense.

The 'scientific'/enquiring/open-minded approach is to increase understanding of the universe and everything in it as time progresses. The various principles that are thought to be 'correct' allow us to create such things as telephones, television and medical care that would not be possible had people not researched these 'scientific' things and designed equipment that make use of them. The various principles do link together, they're not just a few random ideas. Fairly complex physics is involved in fairly common equipment.

The 'faith' approach is to believe, without any evidence, that god made everything because that is what was said in the 'good old days' of more ignorance, before mankind had learned what it knows now and that 'science' is wrong to question things. If everybody took this approach, we would still be in the good old days.

Having decided that a god made everything, various religions have taken this and made up ceremonies and rituals based upon ignorance, declaring them to the only way to eat meat, conduct relationships, punish sinners or please their version of god.

ps. ignorance [??gn?r?ns]
n
lack of knowledge, information, or education; the state of being ignorant

toys19 – us scientists.

I said scientists not atrophysisits, just like toys19

Applause for Geronimo

Science is

"I think this is how it works and now I'll test to see"

If its proved to wrong we could just keep going and going until we find the right answer or people forget why we were looking in the first place and then pretend what we found is what we were looking for. 😀

alex222 – Member
Lifer in theory I agree except for the fact that astro physisists can only be open minded when they want to be.