Every day they ask 'when will we start feeling our legs again?'

This is **** ridiculous, that could have been done in a 1.0L micra. Would it have made it any better? NO!
Wilburts post was bollocks!
Some of the very worst/most dangerous driving I see is by over aged people in small engined cars.
Stupid beyond words.

BUT we see criminally bad driving EVERYDAY,

I see absolutely dreadful bike riding every single day. The **** who rode into my car, smashing my light better pay up anyway.

Not often I agree with Wrecker but yeah. Totally that.

Regulating safety into cars doesnt just mean limiting power(although that would probably be part of it) it probably means a range of restrictions like speed controls or weight limits and whatever else great brains can come up with that collectively reduce both the likelyhood and consequences of an accident.

The only real obstacle to this is the sales model of manufacturers that positions a transport device as a sports and status product and causes people to idolise them.

I know cars are fun but are they really worth this?

Looking at the vid:

The impact was directly on the outside, turn-weighted, font/side corner of the LR; directly over the structurally-reinforced members necessary for holding the wheel of a 4×4 on to the bodywork and the front drivegear. It would then preceded to load the reinforced beams around the engine, and finally the oncoming car would have encountered the engine itself, which is very very heavy in a 4×4 like that.

There isn’t much more of a high energy crash possible.

Considering the type of crash caused, the vehicle in question, the drivers occupation/”vocation”, the road-rage element and the harm caused, I think the driver should be put away for a long long time, and I also find the sentence far too lenient. Yuk.

A question keeps going round in my head about the nature of the injuries of the victims. There were 2 adults and 2 children in the car hit, all 4 suffered injuries. The driver wasn’t crippled and it seems that the front seat passenger wasn’t either, so how could the 2 ( presumably ) back seat passengers have suffered such serious harm ? I know little of the nature of physics in a car crash, but would have thought that those in the front of the vehicle would have suffered the most harm.

He certainly is a nutcase. Chasing a lady in people carrier in a road rage incident and causing a huge destructive crash is horrifying. I hit a lady in a crash with similar angle and alot lower speeds and the impact was pretty hefty, and that was in a car that weighed half of what a LR would weigh.
I do wonder what he would have done if he not crashed and caught the lady in the mpv? punched her to the ground ? Rammed her off the road as well?

So he caused a crash by driving like a complete idiot, which has lead to life changing injuries to at these 2 girls. What do we think should be the sentance handed out by the judge?

10 year driving ban
8 years custodial sentance
Fine of £10,000

Or more, maybe ? He does have to live with the guilt of what he has done for the rest of his life. It was an accident , he didnt leave the house with the intention of smashing headlong into an oncoming car. 2 seconds earlier and he would have missed them, 2 seconds later and they would be past the point of impact.
Yes he was chasing someone in a rage filled fury , I dont know what the other car did to warrant this, probably pulled out from a petrol station in front of him or something else insignificant. He then got all stabby and chased them. It must happen everyday. Its happened to me many years ago. But no one got hurt that time.

@cranbery – I’d guess it was todo with the description I provided above, plus the rotational element of the impact. Based on the centre of gravity of the Vauxhall [near the front] and the direction of the oncoming LR, the rear of the Vauxhall would have spun around relative to the front, and this could result in higher rotational forces further away from the CoG, and therefore more acceleration/g’s in those locations.

So he caused a crash by driving like a complete idiot, which has lead to life changing injuries to at these 2 girls. What do we think should be the sentance handed out by the judge?

10 year driving ban
8 years custodial sentance
Fine of £10,000

Given the number of a taxi company and told that he is never, ever, allowed to drive a vehicle of any description again.

Or more, maybe ? He does have to live with the guilt of what he has done for the rest of his life. It was an accident , he didn’t leave the house with the intention of smashing headlong into an oncoming car. 2 seconds earlier and he would have missed them, 2 seconds later and they would be past the point of impact.

As I read it he pleaded not guilty, so I think he will be more sorry for Himself than the two children.
Secondly it was not an accident. Accidents are unavoidable. He could have avoided the collision by driving within the rules of the road.
I would vote yes for leathal injection as a punishment.

Regarding the crash:

Hitting the chassis leg side on like that should be a bit better than hitting straight on as straight on the design case is to resist the full energy of an offset head on crash so a car rated for 3500kg is bloody strong. More side on like that means you are hitting a square crash structure on it’s corner so it should fold in a bit more and is allowed to do so as the impact case is not so severe for the car occupants as the load direction is not inline with the occupants so the front can effectively be ripped off sideways with less risk to occupants. Same way you can lose control of a Ferrari at over 100mph and crash sideways into a telegraph pole and have the whole back end rip off but walk away. It has to be a hollow box due to the engine but yes eventually inside that hollow box is an engine which is not going to deform. It will break free from it’s mounts though. Hitting a wheel itself can be very bad as it is built very strong but if you look on the daily mail stills then the camera does capture the split second after impact where you can see both cars bodywork deforming and absorbing the crash. Hitting wheels is especially bad for motorbikes, at least a door skin has some give before the side impact bar.

I think the deformation of both cars crash structures saved the lives of the driver and possibly his wife. They were fully grown adults so much stronger bodies and most likely better restrained due to their size and airbags and I have absolutely no doubt in cars from 10-15 years ago they would be in a much worse state.

The kids however, the are paralysed from the waist down which suggests the lap belt forces were just to strong. Sadly you have practical limitations to safety equipment and people dont want the hassle of racing harnesses in an everyday car. Despite all the crumple zones slowing down the deceleration they were still hitting a Discovery that weights about 2500-2700kg so about 1000kg more than their Signum and it was not a slow impact. Maybe the kids were not optimally seated either (booster seats etc) but I can’t comment on that. They are little girls and their bodies just are not up to those kinds of loads without serious injury. There could have also been luggage in the back which hit their seats and again you can only design for so much within practical reason.

Haven’t read all the posts, so sorry if it’s already been mentioned, but isn’t there a process for appealing a sentence that is felt to be too lenient?

I agree absolutely with the ban for life approach (and I also think that at the very least anyone who loses their license for any period of should have to retake their test to prove their ability rather than simply having it handed back).

Serving 50% of a prison terms seems about par for the course these days so he could be back on the roads fairly soon.

I’d also agree that he should be main personally liable for the children’s compensation and health needs.

There is a process of appeal, but the maximum is five years. Increasing that would at least stop him being out after half his sentence. As for guilt; he has none or be would have pled guilty. He should have got a lifetime driving ban,cannot understand why he didn’t.

He should have got a lifetime driving ban,cannot understand why he didn’t.

Because we live in a World where driving is seen as a right and not a privilege.

Which needs to change and the more people who have that privilege taken away for good the better everyone else will behave on the roads.

Maybe the answer is self driving cars as it will mean being able to drive is seen as less of a must and maybe one day hopping in your efficient electric eco box self driving car will be no different to jumping a cab.

That is just terrible! Seriously don’t know how I would react if that happened to my 2 little ones!!!

Putting him in a wheelchair would be a start??!!

What an appalling story on all counts.

But thank goodness that we also have laws that forbid the proposed actions/responses above 😯

Prison sentence aside, why are idiots like this not banned from driving for life. I just cannot understand how anyone can think this person should be allowed to drive ever again. Its so far beyond my understanding I cannot fathom it. He wont be driving unnorison anyway so its only really a 2 year ban.

I thought he pled guilty to charges relating to the crash but denied the charge(s) relating to chasing the Mazda.

EDIT – I’ve checked, and he did. No less of a dick obviously, for effectively claiming it was a momentary dangerous error when in fact it was prolonged and deliberate dangerous driving.

It’s cases like this that make me think we should get rid of (some) specific driving laws. Why “causing serious injury by dangerous driving” with a max of 5 years when you could be prosecuted for grievous bodily harm with a potential 25 years on jail?

Can’t help feeling when I look at the photo of the range rover driver, that I’m looking at a photo of every stw driving ‘expert’ ever

Been looking into child seats as my kids are growing fast, and there seems to be a shocking lack of acknowledgement and leadership in both law and the Uk market for the efficacy of rear facing kids seats. No idea if that has any relevance in this case but shouldn’t we be doing everything to make cars safer, including raising child seat standards?

The laws around driving offences do need to be changed and reviewed, as an earlier post said, do something- petition, write to your mp and so on.

Also consider how ‘ we’ drive…..I know I am not perfect and need to be more aware….. 20k per year commuter myself and see some horrific driving, and generally feel it is not just one type of driver who commits stupid, irrational or dangerous acts, so not all youths are racing nor old people dodering along it is a range of everyday folk generally like ‘us’.
Making cars safer is good but you have to make the drivers safer as well

The law must and needs to change to reflect the crime and consequences of that crime, I hope in prison is a still a balance of punishment (losing ones liberty and being locked up for 23 hrs a day) though the length of sentence should have been greater;and rehabilitation and no one should be encouraging vigaliantism nor crimes ro be committed against another.

In terms of prison sentence I’m very much in the camp of punishing the action not the consequences. In that context, whilst it might seem unfair at an emotive level, 4 years for a road rage chase seems about right. There was no intent to injure, just a wilful disregard for the safety of others and they should be treated differently.

However, I also feel that banning driving for life for such crimes, as well as drink and drug driving should be the default court response. And no leniency for those that require to drive for their current job or lifestyle.

You would hope that he will be rejected by society as scum on his release making a return to his previous lifestyle and wealth pretty impossible and that in itself is a life sentence.

Because we live in a World where driving is seen as a right and not a privilege.

It does seem to keep coming back to this doesn’t it?

It also seems to be reflected in the way motorists treat each other – little or no respect for any other road user except themselves.

“OUT OF MY WAY!!” seems to be the mantra sadly…….

The type of car is irrelavant – I’ve seen Chelsea tractors by orange peroxide blondes being driven badly all the way though to cotton tops in Micra’s via sensible looking chaps with families on board & Nurburgring heroes in their 911’s & M3’s..

It’s bloody depressing..
edit: not to mention so called “professional drivers” aka bus drivers!! 👿

It’s bloody depressing..

I’m not so sure. You could look at it negatively sure if that’s your bag; but I’ve had a licence for 27 years and I genuinely can’t say that the standard of driving I have witnessed has declined in that time. A generation who never had to pass a test has been replaced with a generation tested far more comprehensively than mine was. Road use has doubled in that time so statically you would expect to see twice as many incidents. The more congested the roads, the more opportunity for conflict but I don’t perceive the actual attitude of road users has declined. Indeed, the social attitude to drink driving has fundamentally improved. In 27 years the number of fatalities on UK roads is down to nearly a third of the late 1980’s level whilst road use is massively up. A lot of that will be down to improvement in car design but, it’s still hard to make a case for a significant downward attitude.

Of course if you are looking for it, with a dollop of confirmation bias, you’ll find evidence that road attitude is going to the dogs, but I think this is more perception than truth.

I think it depends on where you are..

In the SE it’s very busy ergo folks patience & manners often go astray.

I’d agree that driving standards haven’t worsened – there’s just more of us on the road.

Certainly far more traffic on the road than when I started driving in 1988..

In 27 years the number of fatalities on UK roads is down to nearly a third of the late 1980’s

Isn’t part of that because vulnerable road users have been basically designed and bullied off the roads? If everyone is wrapped in steel and airbags then deaths are likely to go down.

Better design makes cars safer and so a crash that would have been fatal in 1986 is survivable in 2016.
Both of which lead to this sort of thing:

I don’t think it’s a generational thing though, there are just more people on the roads nowadays.

It also seems to be reflected in the way motorists treat each other – little or no respect for any other road user except themselves.

“OUT OF MY WAY!!” seems to be the mantra sadly…….

As said before, the number of people on the road travelling ever increasing distances from home to work, dropping kids off to school etc, and being pressured to do it in as short as time as possible…

A change in societies behaviour in the last few decades has contributed to these outcomes more than people would care to admit.

And there are some people who think we should be allowed to carry guns…

Isn’t part of that because vulnerable road users have been basically designed and bullied off the roads?

Nope,

From the same website you got your graph:-

Cycling on the road in the UK has increased 12% up the last 10 years (using 3 year rolling average).

And in reality the number of deaths on UK roads from cyclists has always been a tiny fraction of the total, so a significant change one way or the other would have a very limited impact on the total figure.

I saw this thread yesterday but didn’t trust myself to post calmly – so refrained.

I cannot believe the light sentence this ‘person’ has received. Surely for the impact he has had on these peoples lives, a longer prison term and a far, far longer driving ban would be more appropriate?

You cannot undertake that kind of manoeuvre on the road and not expect a high probability of a high-impact collision with significant potential to cause injury. As a result, to me this would constitute an intent to injure others directly as a result of his actions – i.e pre-meditation.

A change in societies behaviour in the last few decades has contributed to these outcomes more than people would care to admit.

Unfortunately, I agree.

A change in behaviour in society? He represents all white males in the U.K?
It’s always been there and improved and gone downhill or can it be measured?

Sometimes I wonder about the cyclists killed by reckless driving and the light sentence given: *hours of community service.

He was lucky he didn’t cause death or lucky he wasn’t a black Muslim from the ghetto as he represents a minority and the pitch forks would be out.

He represents a majority thus represents himself. An idiot behind the wheel. Like some of us here.

Slow down!