Events and liability, what makes someone an ‘organiser’?

A liability and contract question, I think. One I’ve worked through before but this is a different slant on it perhaps.

I put together a multi-day bike route in France and Italy a while back for a riding trip, it then became a low-key event for a few years. It was just a route, a social the night before the start and not a lot else – no timing, finish line, no support, no entry fee even. Just a group of ~150 riders doing a bikepacking/touring ride from a group start. It became unexpectedly popular so I needed to run an entry ballot to keep numbers to <200 and with that I had a terms of entry document, a liability waiver, for the entrants. That meant I was able to say who was part of the event and know I had a signed waiver from them. But because I couldn’t get insurance for various reasons I got nervous about the simple cost of even defending a claim for negligence (the waiver format absolves the organisers from liability for all but negligence) and decided not to continue.

The main Q then – this event was always on the same date/day and that date was established over 5 or 6 years. I’m wondering how much ‘encouragement’* I could get away with towards riders using that date to gather to ride. For those who enjoy the group touring aspect they could ‘DIY’ the event? I could arrange the social the night before the start and after that they’re simply following a route that’s available online at any time. There are races like the Tour Divide where racers simply roll up on a known date and race, there’s no organisation, I’m not sure how the law in various areas differs though.

Anyone have thoughts or experience here?

FWIW the event is a non-profit that raises funds for a research foundation, I don’t make anything from it – quite the opposite, it costs a bit to do the basics. For personal reasons I’m keen to see it happen next year, if there’s a way to do it without taking the liability/financial risk (on that point, because the event etc is all by me there’s little protection available from a Ltd Co structure – case law says single or few directors and a very small company mean it’s not a guarantee that you can separate the action of directors from actions of the Co and liability can be held personally by directors).

*encouragement = mainly social media posts reminding of the traditional date and highlighting the social aspect the night before as a way to focus attention on that timing and create a mass start of sorts. Plus checking the route beforehand for due diligence. Which sounds like arranging something to me, hence why I don’t do it at the mo.

Even if you are not legally responsible it will not stop a participant (or an angry relative) trying to claim that you are through the courts if something goes wrong.

Have you tried (1) joining Cycling UK if you’re not a member and (then) (2) asking them for guidance.

participant (or an angry relative)

or angry insurance company which would be worse.

If you were aiming to raise funds for the research foundation, could you not ask for their advice if they have run similar fundraisers before? I would expect they must have acce to legal advice.

From back in the Hit The North days nearly 20 years ago. As soon as you say “turn up at such a place and such a time” you are to some extent an organiser. Once you have planned routes, entry ballots, accommodation you are definitely an organiser.

One of the reasons that I stopped doing it was the amount of legal work, insurance, first aid cover, permissions, risk assessments etc required in the background. It absolutely sucked the fun out of it.

I don’t disagree that these were needed by the way.

This too was all for charity. We made exactly £0.00 ourselves.

We had a Mountain Rescue call out. Once they turn up the Police are notified. Once the Police are notified you had better have your paperwork in place. We did.

The casualty was on foot and fell over in the mud. Nothing to do with the bike race, but that didn’t matter.

Have you tried (1) joining Cycling UK if you’re not a member and (then) (2) asking them for guidance.

The event happens outside the UK so they can’t help. And Brexit makes insurance there hard if you don’t have an Authorised Representative within the EU (that was part of how it was insured at one point but the business relationship that made it possible wasn’t sustainable because the event is non-profit)#

Even if you are not legally responsible it will not stop a participant (or an angry relative) trying to claim that you are through the courts if something goes wrong.

If I download your route from Strava or a route guide from bikepacking.com and I ride it I can’t hold someone liable for anything that goes wrong because I acted on free will and rode on a day I chose etc. Route resource websites have established this as far as I know from talking to them and the route for this event is hosted on one of them. The insurer or anyone else would have to show you as the organiser, hence the crux Q, “what makes someone an organiser?”. Between that free will ride using someone else’s route and entering a commercial event is the grey area I’m in.

If you were aiming to raise funds for the research foundation, could you not ask for their advice if they have run similar fundraisers before? I would expect they must have acce to legal advice.

They’re a charity but a shoestring operation of 2 people plus associates, research and building development only.

If be tempted to talk to the racing “The Racing Collective”. They do quite a few free events, a couple of which i have done. They must be big enough now to have an answer to the liability question.

As soon as you say “turn up at such a place and such a time” you are to some extent an organiser.

Seems so, which is why I don’t these days. But with this being a non-technical event that doesn’t involve risks beyond what’s obvious in simply riding along a public road or track or from the surroundings (high mountain paths) it may have lower liability risk/needs than an enduro MTB event.

It sucks how insurers can make you feel like walking away from all this, I know the feeling. Partly it comes from not being able to define what negligence may be (beyond the obvious of sending riders along a track that goes over a cliff edge or something similarly daft) and hence not being clear on actual risk.

Can you arrange the social  on an evening that happens to be the night before the non event or am I being a little naive?

@ampthill – most are using liability waivers now but you’d need insurance to cover any costs related to claims that test the waiver. That would be a lot easier if the event is in the UK and using trackers and checkpoints.

@jezzasnr – exactly what I’m thinking..

Cotsduro and Oxduro are free and have no infrastructure at all. You just sign up online and receive a gpx a week before. You upload your ride to strava after you finish.

In terms of liability i can see it 2 ways.

My wife and i did a self guided cycle holiday this summer. Presumably the company are insured to protect themselves against claims. But other than say not describing the route carefully enough in terms of skill needed or sending us along a motorway what can they do wrong?

On the other hand their might be a presumed level of care from an “event” organiser. I did a Glorious Gravel event this year. They checked i finished and they might well have had a sweeper. So had i fallen off and been immobilised they might well have taken action to find me. However had i haven off at Oxduro and been immobilised then nothing would have happened. Had i been lying around in the dark in pain might a lawyer have questioned this.

A simple solution to this issue would be to say don’t ride on your own. I did an event in wales where they paired up solo riders for this reason

I think you would need liability insurance at the very least. If it looks like an event and smells like an event…….

Also how would you fund the legal action of someone testing the waiver or making a liability claim against you.

I’m sure participants will be happy to accept risk and perfectly reasonable about any injuries they receive during an informal ‘event’, but it’s more important to think about a less reasonable response from a relative or an insurance company in a worst case scenario.

I would never dream of suing an event organiser in such circumstances, but if I needed a year off work, or medical repatriation, and claimed on insurance for it, someone in an office somewhere would no doubt be looking for ways to offset the cost.

I think you would need liability insurance at the very least. If it looks like an event and smells like an event…….

Also how would you fund the legal action of someone testing the waiver or making a liability claim against you.

That’s it. I was wondering if having the waiver invites a legal challenge versus having no waiver, no entry process, no official event – just something that happens organically on a route that’s freely available anyway. Yet a mention of a date online on the route social media channel etc might be getting into a grey area that’s just a different legal complication, plus you find yourself w/o any waiver if someone does put a claim on your doorstep.

You can’t do it perfectly! No matter what waivers you have signed some one may still come after you. If not a participant, a 3rd party. Ultimately you need to hide behind an organisation and even then you have the potential for a lot of grief.

I think we all know this but, just in case,  a uk waiver can’t cover loss of life or injury

From my organising experience, if you didn’t:

* charge entry fees

* provide food, power, water, or temporary structures

* provide a route/map/GPX file

* do any paperwork/damage waiver stuff

* give anyone advice on how/what/when to do stuff

then you should be fine :-/

What about the charity asks for a donation to access route files and a suggested start date/time? How do STW cover the possibility of a group trying to follow one of their routes and all coming a cropper – is that being an organiser?

They don’t insure events outside the UK but you could ask The League International – given their name, I’m sure they’ll have been asked a few times and will have an idea where to point you.

But because I couldn’t get insurance for various reasons I got nervous about the simple cost of even defending a claim for negligence (the waiver format absolves the organisers from liability for all but negligence) and decided not to continue.

That wouldn’t cover you in Spain, at least. The law has recently changed and you need to have an officially recognised guide with you. You can’t just sign your rights away. No idea what the law is in France or Italy, but I’d certainly want to check it out beforehand. And as mentioned above all your riders may be great guys and girls and wouldn’t dream of suing you, but what if the worst happens and someone dies? Can you guarantee their spouses won’t sue you?

There are races like the Tour Divide where racers simply roll up on a known date and race, there’s no organisation, I’m not sure how the law in various areas differs though.

That’s kind of how the Dunwich Dynamo operates. A FB page, a generally agreed date and some organisation around it like the cafe on the beach opening up especially early and Southwark Cyclists providing an online portal to book return coach travel. The “event” itself claims to be a tradition, a collective, a simple coincidence that up to 1000 riders turn up on that same night in July to vaguely follow some half-marked route to the coast.

And people have been killed and injured on that. Amazingly, to no real comeback from the law or any insurance.

Have you tried asking Stuart or Dee on bearbones? Might well have a good insight into the costs and hassles involved?

“Due to difficulties getting insurance i will not be hosting the event this year on the xx of x at xxAM at xx location. I will however be hosting a party as always the night before. I absolutely would not encorage anyone to search for last years route on Komoot and ride it from the staring point of xx”

IANA (European) L

‘Historically, there was a mass start on the route every year at 9am on the second Saturday in x, and dozens of riders still observe that tradition!’

Have you spoken with The Racing Collective team for how they negotiate this? Their events are exactly your ethos.

I’ve always had this concern over “rides” and “events” I’ve organised, I’ve always distanced myself through social media and email addresses but, if some of their own accord falls and hurts themselves requiring life long care, the lawyers will pursue it. It’s a huge burden for just making something happen that people can attend.

I’m still torn, not sure if I’d organise again, but I do love the grass roots vibe to just rock up and ride, no fees, use common sense.

RE asking others, I won’t mention who/which events but I know a few people doing this kind of thing and some are doing what I was a few years ago, taking a risk to some extent. It’s prob better I don’t mention who I’ve spoken to because of that – suffice to say there’s a willingness to help each other out, awareness of the basics but a lack of clarity in this grey area between micro-event and £300 entry events sponsored by big brands with trackers and insurance. It’s also hard to get someone with legal knowledge to suggest a way forward in this area with any confidence, unless you pay for enough hours from a specialist lawyer I’d expect it’s always going to be off-record advice with a big proviso that you might not want to be tested on.

@qwerty +100 .. it’s so worth it. I keep picking at the subject thinking there might be a thread that leads to a way to cover ourselves for this kind of thing. You might find it easier with a UK event. Maybe worth getting heads together, you’re fairly local to me and there’s another UK event organiser who rides around here. Also a contact locally who may have some contract law experience to offer. DM?

@crazy_legs, No… I wonder if it’s just luck or goodwill that no-one went looking for someone to go after, or they looked and didn’t find.

@munrobiker thanks, will do – wasn’t aware of them.

@ampthill – aiui tho ianal … a waiver can ask someone to absolve the organiser of any liability except the organiser’s obligations to duty of care ie liability for negligence. So an accident caused by faulty brakes on a bike or someone being overcome by hypothermia – hope you warned them of the risks in that waiver (there is wording that means you don’t have to cover every single eventuality). Trackers and checkpoints are popular with insurers as it shows that duty of care. Some events now ask for a certificate of medical fitness to cover the risks from exertion. @mogrim mentions the liability waiver aspect won’t work in Spain which I wasn’t aware of but it’s a general EU principle and is used by events in France and Italy.

From my organising experience, if you didn’t:

* charge entry fees

* provide food, power, water, or temporary structures

* provide a route/map/GPX file

* do any paperwork/damage waiver stuff

* give anyone advice on how/what/when to do stuff

then you should be fine :-/

What about the charity asks for a donation to access route files and a suggested start date/time?

Hmm. I will provide gpx files to people who ask since they may not use komoot, the route info is the same as available on komoot and it comes with a page or so of basic risk management stuff, general advice on some obvious/expected risks only.

Donations are made directly to the charity who send out some event merch in return. The route info has always been freely available.

Even if you are not legally responsible it will not stop a participant (or an angry relative) trying to claim that you are through the courts if something goes wrong.

^^ this ^^ (although you will only get sued by someone sensible if (a) you have some assets OR (b) insurance); where there are multiple organisers they may only pursue those worth chasing.

If I send a friend a message saying “Bob I’ve got a great plan for Sat 9am ride, come along” then I have some duty of care not to blindly lead him off a cliff.  Depending on his level of experience, our relationship and his understanding of my experience, I might have more or less duty towards him.  If he replies, “great I’ll bring Dave” then I probably have a duty of care to both Bob and Dave, but Bob may also have a duty to Dave (cause he knows I’m a reckless cock).  If we all keep meeting each sat at 9am to see where my wonderful plan goes and each week Bob and Dave bring another friend, and their friends bring friends of their own – suddenly I’m inadvertently the organiser of a large group and have a duty of care to all of them.  I can’t possibly know all their abilities, and they can’t possibly know mine.  Someone turning up when there’s 100 people in the group might quite reasonably expect the organiser has put more dilligence into the planning than on week 2 with five people.

If a couple of months in I say “folks I am out” then clearly most of my duty of care disappears.  There’s probably all sorts of grey areas where it could remain. Retaining influence on the timing (particularly if time was an important factor in the incident), reviewing proposed routes (particularly if the route was a factor in the incident).

Waivers are both useless (they don’t stop you being sued) and potentially helpful to focus participants minds IF carefully and clearly worded to focus the mind on the important points and provided sufficiently in advance that people have a genuine choice.  They also at best, only apply to participants – if your 150 riders all come flying through a tricky route just as a minibus load of ramblers are going up that path and one of them comes a cropper you will have a whole other problem.  All the more so if the ramblers had done their diligence well, had landowner permission etc – and you had not.

Donations are made directly to the charity who send out some event merch in return. The route info has always been freely available.

Sounds like they probably should get their own advice!  If I was looking for someone to sue, they would be on my list of possibles!  What diligence have they done on the organisers before agreeing to make event specific merch etc!  Did their “badge” add a degree of credibility than made me reasonably presume this was not just one guy figuring stuff our on the fly?

If I download your route from Strava or a route guide from bikepacking.com and I ride it I can’t hold someone liable for anything that goes wrong because I acted on free will and rode on a day I chose etc. Route resource websites have established this as far as I know from talking to them and the route for this event is hosted on one of them.

(1) If the route you downloaded took you along a railway line or motorway then I think potentially you could hold “me” liable.  But the court would likely also say “you downloaded a random route from a random stranger so theres a big element of at your own risk”.  Once the random stranger is someone who organised 5 previous big rides and arranged a party the night before and access to the party was controlled by invitation/ballots/tickets then I think the “I’m just a random on Komoot” is a weak defence.

(2) I am sure the route resource websites have had lots of legal advice and have sufficient budget to scare off anyone / quickly settle for claims.  I’d be amazed if they have zero liability – I am sure they will have a mechanism to delete routes that are flagged as dangerous OR allow users to leave feedback comments so other users are alerted to potential risks, that still wouldn’t stop someone trying to sue them especially if their negligence contributed (e.g. if they has a software error that meant the route was provided in reverse and so people were exposed to different risks).

(3) But “established” is a strong word in legal circles.  Even if you “establish” something in one jurisdiction if may not apply in another.  Lawyers love to point out that each case needs assessed on its own merits – subtle distinctions between cases can have big differences in outcome.

-o0o0o-

As well as wanting insurance for liabilities I would be considering if the worst happened if I had done everything possible to avoid it, not just from a moral perspective but from a criminal one – “manslaughter” would worry me far more than being sued.  If I was looking to test my own mind on what was and was not “organised” and how other people might see it, then I might look at these two documents:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63906ea0d3bf7f328063e844/2022-13-Paddleboards-Report.pdf

https://www.outdooraccess-scotland.scot/sites/default/files/2018-09/Guidance%20-%20Outdoor%20events%20in%20Scotland%20-%20guidance%20for%20organisers%20and%20land%20managers.pdf

The first is a commercial arrangement and the MAIB is not interested in legal liability, but you can easily read between the lines and see how professional investigators view lack of paperwork and clarity on organisation etc.

The second is Scottish land reform / access code specific – so of course irrelevant to France etc.  But in the absense of any local guidance perhaps gives some idea when a “gathering” becomes “an event” and when people who have some “de facto rights” to cross an area might need to consider additional permissions.  I’m not saying they’ve got it right, but they have considered the issue from much more than just the MTBers perspective.

Good point, thanks for the input @Poly. The point about route resource site budget and how they’d monitor routes is valid and why I’d asked komoot about hosting a future event so they could cover this as part of or added value to their sponsorship.

Waivers are both useless (they don’t stop you being sued) and potentially helpful to focus participants minds IF carefully and clearly worded to focus the mind on the important points and provided sufficiently in advance that people have a genuine choice.  They also at best, only apply to participants – if your 150 riders all come flying through a tricky route just as a minibus load of ramblers are going up that path and one of them comes a cropper you will have a whole other problem.  All the more so if the ramblers had done their diligence well, had landowner permission etc – and you had not.

On this point I realise a waiver doesn’t prevent the possibility of needing to defend against a claim, which is partly why I dropped the whole thing a couple of years ago. Though not used now as there’s no event the waiver doc covered what being an event participant was – one part of that is you have to have your own insurance for 3rd party liability (though I was told that can create a claim chain of its own and a lawyer’s view on ‘participation’ could be different).

Perhaps route distribution should only be via komoot so they cover some of this. I’m going to have a look at their terms and conditions and see if anything jumps out.

I think the big takeaway is it’s hard to organise an event and protect yourself legally which probably explains why events are in decline and/ or more expensive to participate in. A sorry state but where we are

From komoot’s terms, ‘the ownership principle’ –

Careful selection of a tour by the user, the ownership principle –
The user is aware that he has to make a careful decision in terms of his personal skills and equipment as well as the prevailing weather conditions whether, and if so, which tours provided by komoot he selects from for his activities. Accordingly komoot takes no responsibility or liability for that
a) the user has a sufficient (physical) capability to commit or to ride the tour selected by him;
b) the user equipment is suitable for the commission or the driving of his chosen tour;
c) weather conditions are suitable to commit or to ride the tour selected by the user without a significant risk exposure for the life, body and health of the user.
d) information on the route and information on the current site is error-free.
The user is also aware that some of komoot proposed tours may be liable — for whatever reason — to temporary or prolonged closures (e.g. due to avalanche hazards by local authorities). Instead, it is solely the liability of the user to pay enough attention to local (regulatory) arrangements about the blocking of a tour and warnings (eg, the Internet, radio and TV about avalanche dangers) and to align his conduct.
The in paragraph 8 made provisions for liability of komoot remain unaffected by the above provisions of this clause 14.

Clause 8 is a liability limitation disclaimer for many things but clarifies that negligence isn’t excluded. The route info I will send out on request has a similar note in it, but it’s a note without the backing of company lawyers. Although it’s the same route I think having it only downloadable via their site may be another layer of protection.

@chrismac agreed, though I’m keen to find a way it can happen. Perhaps it needs the participation of the routing sites. komoot do run events for their own promotion (and did one on the route I put together). A relationship like that might offer the sort of distance/protection I hoped a Ltd Co could offer, but doesn’t. Then it would be down to the router and the route hosting platform to have some sort of contract.

Perhaps it needs the participation of the routing sites. komoot do run events for their own promotion (and did one on the route I put together).

Well the ideal would be to get a corporate sponsor that covers the cost of insurance!  If they happened to be the venue where your event starts from, then there’s a definitive what’s in it for them as well as potentially being able to be your “EU Rep”?   I’ve not idea what the insurance requirements are for EU events, but have heard various industries having insurance headaches post brexit.

A relationship like that might offer the sort of distance/protection I hoped a Ltd Co could offer, but doesn’t. Then it would be down to the router and the route hosting platform to have some sort of contract.

I’m a little surprised that you don’t think a Ltd co offers you any protection.  If it was clearly the organiser it would offer some substantial protection, although it is possible for some criminal stuff for reach through to the directors and if you personally make the stupid decisions on behalf of the Ltd Co then you might not personally be 100% off the hook.  Why not create a Ltd Co (or CIO if its for charity) with multiple directors/trustees who collectively as a board make the decisions.  If the Ltd Co can carry insurance, and even better Directors and Officers Insurance, then you almost have to try to do something wrong to be personally liable.  But this would mean moving from your ‘pretend not really an event’ status to the Ltd Co / CIO saying “we are the organiser”.   I don’t really understand why you can’t charge a fee to cover insurance costs?

Alternatively if you have no EU rep – relocate your trip to the UK?

Well the ideal would be to get a corporate sponsor that covers the cost of insurance!

Certainly would be. But unf. no takers so far – or none that wouldn’t make it into something it wasn’t intended to be since most insurance companies want trackers, checkpoints etc, and all that needs resources. I had one year of the right sponsors to make it work but it was a one-off. They couldn’t dedicate the staff time to it and make any money unless entries went way up.

I’m a little surprised that you don’t think a Ltd co offers you any protection

Perhaps my misunderstanding. Currently a sole director and there’s little actual ‘company’ activity and I was under the impression it could be difficult to separate my actions from the company actions – I read about some IP theft by a company in a similar position/size where the judge decided the Ltd Co structure didn’t mean the director wasn’t able to keep his personal assets out of the claim (2016 or 2017 case). If I was sued for negligence (or criminal negligence, though I’m not sure what that could be) it may be a similar situation but it’s not an area where I’m qualified to say either way, just have concerns.

So

 If the Ltd Co can carry insurance, and even better Directors and Officers Insurance, then you almost have to try to do something wrong to be personally liable.  But this would mean moving from your ‘pretend not really an event’ status to the Ltd Co / CIO saying “we are the organiser”.

this could certainly work as an alternative to a soft-touch approach that is really only about keeping the group tour spirit going to encourage donations to the charity.

I don’t really understand why you can’t charge a fee to cover insurance costs?

I did in the one year we were covered through an event management company who had an general events policy and a rep / associate in the EU, I was insured as a contractor to them. We just asked entrants for a small cost-covering amount to go with the liability waiver entry terms contract.

Thanks, appreciate the detailed input @poly.

My tuppence worth, just looking at it with a neutral eye: Essentially you are trying to organise an event whilst pretending that it isn’t an event and you aren’t organising it. I can’t help feeling that if the proverbial hit the legal fan you’d be extremely lucky to get away with it. Especially if there was a massive claim involved & their side had a decent lawyer.

^ organising, encouraging, allowing to happen..? But yes, pretty much as you say. There will be a legal line so it may be just a case of finding out where it is (cost/will to do so is another q)

I think (not with any expertise) you should be worried just as much about potential criminal liability for manslaughter in Italy or France as being held financially liable for negligence. Even if the case was weak and does not end up in court , might you risk not being able to leave the country whilst an investigation took place?

I think you might get a personal positive experience of being in those special places and have special moments (like when we met those cows in the mist) by riding it in early September with a few friends that you co-ordinated with like your first explorative ride in the area. I expect you would encounter others riding the route then, and enjoy meeting new people.

Seems sensible to only have the route and route notes on Komoot and Bikepacking.com and not issue them directly.

Might be wise to not get personally involved in organising any pre departure meal or the time of departure on the traditional date.

Tim

I think you’re right on just turning up in September Tim, it’d be great.

Negligence could be adding in a particularly steep, dangerous trail that’s out of character in the event or not taking out a badly damaged broken up road, so might criminal manslaughter could be the charge going with the outcome of that if someone died – is that right?

Jameso, manslaughter or other charges in foreign jurisdictions would be my sort of concern.  That doesn’t mean I absolutely wouldn’t organise something like this, or that civil liability would not also be on my radar.

im surprised insurers have stipulated must have trackers, checkpoints etc – my experience is they are clueless and want you to follow some sort of “industry best practice” and risk assess and mitigate.  I think it would be difficult to do a risk assessment for 200 people all riding the same 150 km route at the same time and not come up with some significant risks: collision between riders, collision with the public, crash due to technicality of trail, crash off side of path, competitor getting lost, competitor getting lost and ending up somewhere very dangerous, competitor having a mechanical and being left in the exposed, competitor having underlying medical problem, etc.  They can all be mitigated to varying extents and costs.

no matter what you do, there is a non-zero chance someone dies at your event.  Make sure that if that happens legally you did everything a reasonable organiser would have done, but also so you can eventually sleep again at night knowing you did everything possible to prevent it. 

Sharing the organising workload would make for less stress, more eyes to spot potential problems and ideas to mitigate them (affordably), and reduce any suggestion that a Ltd co and the personal directing it were in fact the same entity.  I haven’t studied the case you allude to, whilst it’s certainly possible for reach through to directors when there has been wrong doing, the most common (it’s still rare) reason for trying to hold the directors liable is when the directors aren’t 100% crystal clear themselves when the distinction arrises.  Don’t call the company Jameso Ltd, have its own bank account, email address etc and label all company communications with the name and registered office / registration number, Never jump between the two “personalities” and you’ll be 80% of the way there.  Multiple directors and shareholders would help further.

even if you sort that – I’ve no idea if individual directors can be held accountable for criminal matters in France/italy.  Its best to assume they can, and avoid breaking the law.

^ organising, encouraging, allowing to happen..? But yes, pretty much as you say. There will be a legal line so it may be just a case of finding out where it is (cost/will to do so is another q)

I’ve seen similar sorts of pseudo legal arguments at club level for “events” – if we don’t call it an event we don’t need to do the same level of admin/dilligence etc.  I think it’s nonsense – the law (in U.K. jurisdictions) doesn’t have definitions of “organiser” or “event” – the question is simply did you owe a duty of care.  If you did you can’t really get away with saying “I encouraged but didn’t organise; or I knew all about it and didn’t raise concerns”.   I think it would be difficult to go to court, where this thread might be evidence and say “I had absolutely no belief that I had any duty of care”, because the fact you opened the thread is basically saying you do want some influence on timing/course etc.    Now France and Italy’s legal systems are very different from here so they may define an event or an organiser.

if Cycling UK is not the answer, is there a French equivalent?