EU Referendum – are you in or out?

brexit fudge

What a lovely idea, though as a Scot I prefer Brexit tablet and I guess their will be a few votes for Brexit toffee.

https://www.pollstation.uk/are_you_happy_with_the_deal_ensure_sufficient_progress_brexit/

Only a couple of thousand votes so far, but the result is currently standing with “no” at 91%.

The will of the people. Roflcopters.

By the way, did we do Gove this morning suggesting that if he doesn’t like the eventual deal he’s going to try and persuade people not to stick to it.

At least that’s what he seems to be saying.

Interesting in the context of “you have to stick to the referendum “.

But that’s not to say that failure to honour a manifesto pledge does not have political implications at the ballot box that, in and of themselves make the honouring of manifesto pledges an unavoidable fact. Break the promise and it may be a very, very long time before the public ever trust your party again

as you say, political expediency and no more.

Right 4: the right to change their mind, as new evidence appears.

Forcing something on the Brtish people, simply because in the past that voted against something else, will not end well… the matter will stay open… political parties will continue to be riven with infighting… a new relationship, without democratic support, will not be stable… how it changes will remain the most important political pivot point, and years and years of time and money will be wasted by everyone involved, holding this country back, and causing division within in. Get a deal that you think the majority of the people prefer to membership, put it to the public to make that choice. You can’t just force a deal with minority support on the public by threatening the no deal scenerio as the only alternative. That looks nothing like democracy.

Meanwhile the New Right continues to fan the flames of conflict in the Middle East.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-42291071

Oh, where is the Lee Harvey Oswald for this generation?

Good posts perditus and Kelvin.

You can’t just force a deal with minority support on the public by threatening the no deal scenerio as the only alternative. That looks nothing like democracy.

That’s why MP’s can propose a motion of no confidence at any time

But MPs feel bound by the referendum, even though it does not inform them as to what people want from the replacement for membership, nor, once the replacement is know, whether the public support what is proposed.

“Essentially what you saying is that we need to change things every 2 to 3 years in a massive ways. ” no I’m saying if you trust plebiscites for major decisions it is hypocritical to try and say one plebiscite with a binary question should bind the country even if the situation becomes more complex and more facts and choices become apparent. And disingenuous to try and argue it is anti democratic for people to seek to challenge/change the old flawed vote.

But MPs feel bound by the referendum, even though it does not inform them as to what people want from the replacement for membership, nor, once the replacement is know, whether the public support what is proposed.

All the political parties had a chance to put their vision of Brexit to the public in the election.

And disingenuous to try and argue it is anti democratic for people to seek to challenge/change the old flawed vote.

Again. We had an election, more than one of the parties ran on a platform of reversing the referendum. They didn’t win.

Was this the vision the tories put to the public?

Essentially what you saying is that we need to change things every 2 to 3 years in a massive ways.

Frankly I think that’s the problem with British politics. No long term vision.

Frankly I think that’s the problem with British politics. No long term vision.

Hence the Tories mad rush to throw the country through Brexit, no matter how much it **** the country before Labour get in

Was this the vision the tories put to the public?

No, the tory vision was collapse of the economy the day after a leave vote shortly followed by the Europeans stuffing each other in ovens again. Didn’t you get the pamphlet?

Hence the Tories mad rush to throw the country through Brexit, no matter how much it **** the country before Labour get in

Labour are no different. It’s all shorttermism here. Say what you will about Stalin, but he had a 20 year plan. it was shit, but still…

No, the tory vision was collapse of the economy the day after a leave vote shortly followed by the Europeans stuffing each other in ovens again. Didn’t you get the pamphlet?

I do recall something about a coalition of chaos.

kelvin – Member

But MPs feel bound by the referendum, even though it does not inform them as to what people want from the replacement for membership, nor, once the replacement is know, whether the public support what is proposed.

Its not just that. Labour MPs in the north of England are afraid to make the case against incase their voters turn against them. Its pathetic. See Andy Burnham playing the race card in the manchester mayoral elections.

Politicians should be leaders. Not afraid to speak out for what they believe in. Blairs fault

Theresa May’s hopes of securing a unique post-Brexit trade deal with the EU were under threat on Saturday night as Brussels said it was coming under international pressure to deny Britain special treatment.

After a week that saw May reach a deal with the EU that will allow Brexit talks to move forward on to future trade relations, EU officials insisted a bespoke deal more favourable to the UK than other non-EU nations was out of the question.

grauniad

Labour MPs in the north of England are afraid to make the case against incase their voters turn against them. Its pathetic. See Andy Burnham playing the race card in the manchester mayoral elections.

Politicians should be leaders. Not afraid to speak out for what they believe in. Blairs fault

Blair led us into the EU. Handed back a third of the rebate, refused to set safeguards in place on immigration, because they wanted to Rub our noses in multiculturalism (he would have led us into the Euro if Gordon hadn’t stopped him) and his little minions silenced anyone who raised concern about the wave of child rapes sweeping across our towns by accusing them of racism

I think Labours core vote in the North have had quite enough of that sort of leadership for a lifetime

“A former Labour adviser at the centre of claims that the government secretly encouraged mass immigration to turn Britain into a “truly multicultural society” and undermine the Tories today made clear “there was no such plot”.

The shadow home secretary, Chris Grayling, challenged ministers in the Commons today over remarks by Andrew Neather, a former speechwriter to Tony Blair and special adviser to Barbara Roche when she was immigration minister.

But Neather, now comment editor of the London Evening Standard, said an article he wrote in the aftermath of the television appearance of the BNP leader, Nick Griffin, had been twisted out of all recognition.

“Multiculturalism was not the primary point of the report or the speech. The main goal was to allow in more migrant workers at a point when – hard as it is to imagine now – the booming economy was running up against skills shortages,” Neather wrote in the Standard.”

Bringing the Eastern European countries in to the EU was led by (Conservative) Brits, and that, along with the economic case, was reason enough to not close the door to their citizens when other countries did. The backlash to that move was indeed one of the main reasons we are where we are. Plenty of opportunists jumped on that to their own ends… Banks and Farage more nakedly than others… but lots of people in the big two parties as well. May has used it to build her support in her party, for example.

refused to set safeguards in place on immigration

A trend which our current government continues to this day.

We have the ability to impose stricter rules on immigration and choose not to use them. Why is that? And how is it the EU’s fault?

So if there is a final vote it will not be about membership. It will be on the deal or no deal.

I know you like to think you’re clever for a public school geography teacher who is somewhat jealous of the cars your pupils’ parents drive, but you’re not Nostradamus.

And again, if you’re such a democrat, what’s your beef with a second referendum, or do you think we should still have Blair as PM as he win such an overwhelming victory in 1997?

And besides,

Our immigration desire has little to do with Blair, it’s a WWII thing. After the war we were desperate for skilled labour, doctors and such. That’s where “multiculturalism” started.

his little minions silenced anyone who raised concern about the wave of child rapes sweeping across our towns by accusing them of racism

Really? Do you want to have a think about that and try again? Because it really doesn’t reflect well on you.

Are you calling Anne Cryer a liar?

I’ve given you a reference, draw your own conclusion as to whether she, and others, were being called racist for speaking out .

Ninfan, self-pwning again?

Where did she say she was accused of being racist in your reference?

Ignored yes, police repeatedly failing to act in those cases tragic.

Racial concerns a factor, as was the police writing this women off as ‘loose’

Horrendous behaviour and you could even say that cultural blindness made it worse but these were second gen immigrants, which means they mustve been kids for people Thatcher allowed in and we know that the Thatch is sacred…

Where in that article does is state that minions of Blair accused Cryer of racism?

😐

Does she mention Blair in that snip or that it was organised by his minions? No thought not.

Tony Blair was leader of the Labour Party, you appear to be offended by the prospect of people under his leadership being referred to as his minions.

Maybe it was as Jezza and his mates? 🙄

This warped view of a horrible bit of recent history has what exactly to do with membership, or otherwise, of the EU?

This warped view of a horrible bit of recent history has what exactly to do with membership, or otherwise, of the EU?

I was wondering myself how we’d arrived at hordes of rapists sweeping through northern towns being the fault of the EU.

To be fair to Zulu, it’s not like he ever tries to sidetrack discussions like this. Very unusual behaviour.

In fact, I have more of a right to call brexiteers thick than they have of any expectation that the results of the referendum should be carried through.

Sums up the behaviour of remoaners. As disingenuous as it is shameful. But again thanks for the honesty.

Of course child abuse in Rotherham is all the fault of Tony Blair & the EU !

At least jhj has a stream of consciousnesses!

Rather than just stringing together a couple of things that Guido/breitbart tells him are evil !

Meanwhile the Tory brexiteers* are getting antsy about the deal, something to do with the Brexie voters** on twitter getting very frothy about May’s betrayal

* Note brexiteers Thm, that usually means Gove, Mogg & co.

** Those lot definitely not thick thm 😉

Of course child abuse in Rotherham is all the fault of Tony Blair & the EU

However, the Brexit vote, whether you like it or not, was massively tied up with all three

Really people voted Brexit coz of Tony Blair (or indeed abuse in Rotherham*) ?

* Coz if they thought that leaving the EU would mean the hated Pakistanis living in Rotherham would be expelled then they deserve to be called thick

Yep another one where people were told every bad thing was the fault of the eu and without the eu they could just throw the foreign criminals onto the sea.

However, the Brexit vote, whether you like it or not, was massively tied up with all three

Sure. That’s spin and propaganda for you.

it’s heartbreaking, really. Let’s leave the EU because a dozen or so (evidently European) brown people got away with grooming and rape for a very long time. Totally the EU’s fault.

Are you suggesting that people were misled by those three things, are justified by them?