EU Referendum – are you in or out?

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  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    I think the Trump thing has been going on for quite a while, it’s hard to report anything he says without pointing it out.

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Who says they are, though?

    It’s a common refrain among tory MPs and supporters that the BBC is marxist organisation seeking the destruction of the establishment and imposition of a socialist agenda, despite the fact that pretty much all of it’s senior political hacks are barely disguised or openly rabid tories.

    “If I was in Scotland, voting SNP would be an absolute no-brainer. I just wish that we had the option to give both labour and the Tory’s the same two fingers, and vote for a party that seems to actually represent something other than their own narrow self-interest, and the eternal ‘is it our turn now?’ two party system”

    You’d have to be outside Scotland to believe this. The SNP is highly self-interested with authoritarian tendencies.

    kerley
    Member

    despite the fact that pretty much all of it’s senior political hacks are barely disguised or openly rabid tories.

    Yep, as part of their impartiality and balance they should have to wear badges to less us know which way they swing.

    Big tory badges for Andrew Neil, Nick Robinson, Laura Kuenssberg and so on

    Premier Icon richmars
    Subscriber

    Eat the pudding,
    Think again, probably not Churchill.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I just wish that we had the option to give both labour and the Tory’s the same two fingers, and vote for a party that seems to actually represent something other than their own narrow self-interest, and the eternal ‘is it our turn now?’ two party system that has delivered us into this car-crash!

    We have but not sufficient numbers will.

    richmars,
    Google says it might have been Winston linky .

    Either way the the principle applies, don’t give up.

    Klunk
    Member

    Evening standard are reporting ministers going to announce brexit delay

    scotroutes
    Member

    Evening standard are reporting ministers going to announce brexit delay

    EU Ministers?

    PrinceJohn
    Member

    Sounds like even Amber Rudd is against a no deal, which can only be good news.

    tewit
    Member

    According to the Financial Times. Hitachi are to pull out of building the new Wylfa nuclear plant on Anglesey. I know not really Brexit related, but all this pissing about probably made it easier for them to make there minds up.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Bear with my numptyness – am I reading the wrong papers, or why is it that a no-deal means that Supermarkets are stockpiling and we are preparing for marshal law / Army on the streets?

    Is it really that serious? And why?

    Premier Icon martinhutch
    Subscriber

    Are you reading the Express? Sounds like the kind of bollox they specialise in.

    No, it won’t be that bad. If it is, you can dine on the flesh of all the free unicorns we’ve been promised.

    Klunk
    Member

    Are you reading the Express?

    sorry you weren’t talking to me 🙂

    Premier Icon jimdubleyou
    Subscriber

    Is it really that serious? And why?

    Stock for supermarkets comes from Europe on a “just in time” basis. If you add a customs delay (under WTO rules, you have to have effective customs controls) then it will be “just in time + x days” which will lead to shortages.

    It should sort itself out eventually (I think JRM said 50 years? )

    athgray
    Member

    Are you reading the Express?

    “Jacob Rees Mogg schools a remainer and it is hilarious”.

    “Boris Johnson eloquently puts in remain MP in place with rousing speech”

    “French STEAL insurance jobs from plucky Britain”

    These sort of headlines?

    dovebiker
    Member

    Brexiteers are willing fully ignorant of the consequences of trading under WTO – if we crash out the EU we become a “third country” and the invisible border with the EU becomes a hard border that under WTO rules, we have to demonstrate some form of control. 80% of our livestock produce is exported to the EU – with tariffs added (plus the costs of veterinary controls that no-one knows how will be managed) it could be catastrophic for UK farmers and there’s rumours of of DEFRA having to arrange emergency large-scale slaughter – prices will crash in the UK due to over-supply, farmers will go out of business and prices of food will then increase if the Government doesn’t pump £billions as emergency subsidies. As we import most of our food from the EU, then imports will get more expensive due to tariffs plus costs of delays). Given the UK’s public for panic-buying at the merest sign of a snowflake, it will be carnage in supermarkets – some stockpiling / others exploiting the market to resell at extortionate prices. Shelves will be empty in days and expect we’ll have horror-stories of pensioners dying of starvation.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    Supermarkets are stockpiling and we are preparing for marshal law / Army on the streets?

    Taking the 2 things separately there will have been discussions on stock levels and shelf life. If you have a decent cash flow upping orders slightly and keeping the DC’s topped up is a bet worth making. If there are delays and you have stock then you win some new customers. Remember these are companies who are desperate to steal a customer from a rival.
    I’ve certainly been in conversations recently in industry about making sure kit and equipment is the right side of the chanel come the 29th,spending is being moved to make sure big capital projects don’t get in trouble as nobody currently knows what the arrangements will be.
    If you rely on anything crossing the chanel at the moment that should be on your risk register.

    As for the army? Martial law seems a bit strong but using them to cope with police shortages around Dover maybe? Lot of trucks to Marshall about potentially, lots of delays and logistics needed there and not much time to hire people.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Ok thanks.

    So a shortage of Chateau neuf du pape but more bacon and lamb chops than we know how to deal with…

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    https://qz.com/716156/the-british-import-a-quarter-of-their-food-from-the-eu-and-thats-a-problem/
    Kryton, check the country of origin on most of the fresh fruit and veg your buying at the moment.

    Tomatoes, salad, fruit, veg etc. etc. It’s a bit of time until we get into season for a lot of things, this will also impact our imports from the RoW if our status is unclear.

    kerley
    Member

    Cover the south with poly tunnels and we could grow all we need. Would need some strategic thinking and more importantly employees to work on farming the vegetables. I can’t see either of those things in the plan so shortage of food and the riots will follow, unless of course we show that Dunkirk spirit and all work together down the allotment to sort it out.

    Premier Icon Kryton57
    Subscriber

    Yeah i got that Mike, I was of course being flippant.

    Im convinced we are staying in anyway. Right old mess.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    Cover the south with poly tunnels and we could grow all we need.

    Yeah… no.

    If that were possible, why aren’t we doing it already?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    If that were possible, why aren’t we doing it already?

    Land worth too much, nowhere the workers can afford to live? We can also easily use the land for stuff we can grow quite easily, see we are in this great club where we can easily share what we produce with others and vice versa.

    dovebiker
    Member

    No room for polytunnels in the south – we’re too busy building three-quarters of a million pound houses to accommodate I guess, those immigrants hordes those Brexiteers keep telling us about 😉

    Premier Icon cloudnine
    Subscriber

    Turnips grow well in the uk..
    There’s still time to perfect your recipes for our future staple food..

    https://www.countryliving.com/food-drinks/g4640/turnip-recipes/?slide=1

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    hopeforthebest
    …You’d have to be outside Scotland to believe this. The SNP is highly self-interested with authoritarian tendencies.

    Aye, they have a few flaws, but the political landscape will be completely different after independence.

    For example we will have parties on the left, middle, and right that will be working in Scotland’s interests, and not dancing to the tune of their masters in London.

    The SNP will not be there for life.

    Premier Icon zippykona
    Subscriber

    How would someone go about becoming Scottish?
    Would owning a property and paying council tax be enough ,even if you rarely visited there?
    Anyone want to join my consortium?
    https://www.zoopla.co.uk/for-sale/details/48685545?search_identifier=58f9ad68398d05f3528f4e48b9ef58f3

    dovebiker
    Member

    I’m 5/8ths Scottish, 1/8th Guyanyan and 1/2 Yorkshire – I’m wondering which of those offers the most attractive options?

    Premier Icon epicyclo
    Subscriber

    This is a great speech IMO>

    David Lammy yesterday at 17:05 · ·
    Mr Speaker, I have faced many challenges in the two decades I have sat in this house.

    But Sunday 7th August 2011, the morning after the Tottenham riots, was by far the greatest.
    Walking on broken glass, past burnt-out cars, homes and businesses, comforting men and women still in their pyjamas, I saw the place I had lived my whole life turned to ashes.

    Many members of the community were urging me to say that the killing of Mark Duggan by police, which had sparked the riots, justified this rage.

    That the families made homeless, the burnt out buses and houses, and the looted shops were worth it.

    They told me that I had to say this wrong was right.

    Mr Speaker, it was not easy. But I had to look my community in the face, and tell them this violence was a disgrace and condemn it unequivocally.

    Why? Because we have a duty to tell our constituents the truth. Even when they passionately disagree.

    We owe to them not only our “industry” but also our “judgement.”

    We are trusted representatives, not unthinking delegates.

    So why do many in this House continue to support Brexit, when they know it will wreck jobs, the NHS and our standing in the world?

    This is the fundamental dishonesty at the heart of the Brexit debate.

    Most MPs now recognise it in private, but do not say it in public.

    Brexit is a con.

    A trick. A swindle. A fraud.

    A deception that will hurt most those people it promised to help.

    A dangerous fantasy which will make every problem it claims to solve worse.

    A campaign won on false promises and lies.

    Vote Leave and Leave.EU both broke the law.

    Russian interference is beyond reasonable doubt.

    And by now every single campaign promise made in 2016 has come unstuck.

    Brexit will not enrich our NHS – it will impoverish it.

    A trade deal with Donald Trump will see US corporations privatise and dismantle the NHS one bed at a time.

    And even those promises on immigration – which has so greatly enriched our country – are a lie.

    After Brexit immigration will go up, not down.

    When we enter negotiations with countries like India and China, they will ask for three things.

    Visas. Visas. And more visas.

    And they will get them because we will be weak.

    Then there’s the myth about restoring parliamentary sovereignty.

    The last two years have shown what a joke that is.

    The Prime Minister has hoarded power like a deluded 21st century Henry the Eighth.

    Impact assessments have been hidden. Votes resisted and blocked. Simple opponents of a government policy bullied and threatened to get into line.

    Even when we forced this meaningful vote, the Prime Minister cancelled it, certain we would reject her disastrous deal.

    And oh we will reject it.

    Because this is a Lose-Lose compromise, which offers no certainty for our future.

    All it guarantees is more years of negotiation – headed by the same clowns who guided us into this farce in the first place.

    Mr Speaker, we are suffering from a crisis of leadership in our hour of need.

    This country’s greatest moments came when we showed courage, not when we appeased.

    The courage of Wilberforce to emancipate the slaves, against the anger of the British ruling class.

    The courage of Winston Churchill to declare war on Hitler, against the appeasers in his cabinet and the country.

    The courage of Atlee and Bevan to nationalise the health service — against the doctors who protested it was not right.

    Today we must be bold, because the challenges we face are just as extreme.

    We must not be afraid to tell the truth to those who do not agree.

    Friends on this side of the house tell me to appease Labour voters in industrial towns.

    The former miners, the factory workers, those who feel they have been left behind.

    I say we must not patronise them with cowardice. Let’s tell them the truth.

    “You were sold a lie.

    Parts of the media used your fears to sell papers and boost viewing figures.

    Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson exploited the same prejudice to win votes.

    Shame on them.

    Immigrants have not taken your jobs. Our schools and colleges failed to give you skills.

    Hospitals are not crumbling because of health tourists, but because a decade of austerity ground them down to the bone.

    You cannot afford a house because both parties failed to build — not because Mohammed down the road who moved in.

    And wealth was hoarded in London – when it should have been shared across the country.

    Blame us, blame Westminster. Do not blame Brussels for our own country’s mistakes.

    And do not be angry at us for telling you the truth.

    Be angry at the chancers who sold you a lie.

    As Martin Luther King said long ago “There comes a time when silence is betrayal.”

    So just as I speak plainly to the government this time around, let me also speak to the opposition about some home truths.

    There is no left-wing justification for Brexit.

    Ditching workers’ rights, social protections, and ending environmental cooperation is not progressive.

    This is a project about neoliberal deregulation.

    It is Thatcherism on steroids, pushed by her modern day disciples.

    Leaving the EU will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, it will make us subordinate to Trump’s US.

    Socialism confined to one country will not work.

    Whether you like it or not, the world we live in is global.

    We can only fix the rigged system if we cooperate across border-lines.

    The party of Keir Hardie has always been International.

    We must not let down our young supporters by failing to stand with them on the biggest issue of our lives.

    If we remain in the EU, we can reform it from the top table.

    Share the load of mass migration, address excesses of the bureaucracy, and fix the inequalities between creditor and debtors.

    We can recharge the economy.

    We can re-fuel the NHS.

    We can build the houses we need, after years of hurt.

    Hope is what we need.

    Remain in the EU.

    Give Britain a second opportunity to decide.

    athgray
    Member

    I’m 5/8ths Scottish, 1/8th Guyanyan and 1/2 Yorkshire – I’m wondering which of those offers the most attractive options?

    Which ever offers the best maths education.

    Premier Icon bigblackshed
    Subscriber

    David Lammy.

    I’m liking the cut of this man’s jib.

    Premier Icon convert
    Subscriber

    I’m liking the cut of this man’s jib.

    me too

    Edukator
    Member

    Who sent Lammy a link to this thread?

    Premier Icon rone
    Subscriber

    Survation have Labour in a 3pt over Tories in latest poll.

    Good work Rachel Riley.

    kerley
    Member

    If that were possible, why aren’t we doing it already?

    Because it doesn’t makes financial sense currently. There is no shortage of land and it is not even worth a lot of money as can’t be built on anyway. I am not talking about South East by the way, anyone who lives South/South West knows there are miles and miles of fields and land where this could be done. And as you would be setting up from scratch it could be highly automated.
    Government could give grants to get it going etc,. but then we don’t really wan to be self sufficient do we?

    kerley
    Member

    Survation have Labour in a 3pt over Tories in latest poll.

    And that is before any electioneering occurs, Labour using social media effectively etc,. (remember the last pre election poll vs result)

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