- EU Referendum – are you in or out?
I think that if theres one positive to come out of this whole shambles its that surely absolutely nobody can be under any illusions any more about how utterly useles our ‘political class’ are, right the way across the board? Completely intellectually vacant, wilfully ignorant, totally self-serving and on a practical level; thoroughly inept and incompetent!
Seriously… can you think of a single one of them to emerge with anything positive worth saying about them? I’d say that there are a 2 or 3…. Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry and maybe Kier Starmer.
The rest of them…? Dear God!Posted 5 months ago
Fair point… David Lammy, for sure.
Whats been ruthlessly exposed is the vacuum at the top of both main parties. Chris Grayling is still Transport secratery, apparently secure in his job. And Dianne Abbott is what passes for a political heavyweight in the Labour Party. That tells you everything you need to know about where we are with our present ‘frontbench’ politicsPosted 5 months agotheotherjonvSubscriber
Astonishing isn’t it, how much more impressive the non-politicians are on QT?
can you think of a single one of them to emerge with anything positive worth saying about them? I’d say that there are a 2 or 3….
Career politicians mainly whose main interest is in staying in a career in politics. I refuse to believe they are all as stupid as they can appear, but in an effort to keep their jobs and party positions, they just do what the whips tell them to. It’s not intelligence, it’s integrity to do the right things rather than the self-serving. And given that many (genuinely, i believe) went into politics to try to do good, where this gets derailed and they just become tied to the gravy train like all the rest, I don’t know.
The ones who stand out, like the Yellow Lady, are not that much more intelligent if at all, but they are simply speaking what they believe instead of a finessed version of the party line.
On top of which – when the party line becomes so frustratingly and obviously indefensible, they then revert to PR tactics of listening to a question, offering a nothing answer followed by some linking words and then talking about whatever they want to anyway. ALL THE BLOODY TIME.
I’d like the press to say ‘enough’s enough’ and when they won’t answer clearly and unambiguously, refuse to give them the airtime, and instead just play suitable music (Benny Hill theme for example) over their answers.Posted 5 months agoKlunkMember
I’d like the press to say ‘enough’s enough’ and when they won’t answer clearly and unambiguously, refuse to give them the airtime, and instead just play suitable music (Benny Hill theme for example) over their answers.
the bbc should also stop playing devils advocate with “the Government would say blah blah” (as they did with the 1 in 5 children in food insecurity story). I’m sorry if the government are not prepared to defend their position in person with a minister it is not the job of the bbc to do it for them.Posted 5 months agonorbert colonMember
The press are a lot more than complicit in my view …
Whether that is the full blown “enemies of the people” campaigns or the slow drip feed of lies and misinformation over the last 30-40 years…
The trouble is the tail is wagging the dog… politicians should be prepared to steer/educate and inform the masses, stand up for what they believe in and persuade folks into understanding their position. However what they have to do is bend with the wind to keep a bunch of folk happy who have had their opinions handed to them by the media… (the right wing media is particularly bad but the left wing media are at it too)
That is one of the reasons why we have ended up where we arePosted 5 months ago
I’d like the press to pull them up on it, and bully them into either giving a proper answer or refusing to answer at all – actual journalists doing their job, the press are in many ways complicit in the current mess.
Never seen Paxo doing this to Michael Howard way back when?
John Humphries does it all the time – the problem is that the average Joe ‘soundbite/snippet’ relier only remembers the first time something like this happens. So everyone (me included) only remembers the Michael Howard one when there have been hundreds of comparable incidences since. Granted that the Howard one was because Paxo had backed him into a corner where the only answer was yes/no so anything other than a definitive yes/no was obviously evasion.
If journos get too aggro the politicians will just hide or run away and everything will be done by written statements – which won’t contain anything more than ambiguities.
The spectre of one BBC employee anchoring the programme in the studio asking another BBC employee stood outside Downing Street what they think of something always makes me turn the channel over. This only happens because the politicians don’t dare put anyone up for an interview, so the BBC tries to busk it.Posted 5 months ago
Yup, I was thinking of an idea like brass eye, where if the statement is bullshit it’s read out by a clown.
It just winds me up watching a journalist nodding along to a politician who is clearly spouting utter bollocks/not answering the question at all. For **** sakes, just pull them up on it, it’s part of your job, and not doing it is basically an affront to journalistic integrity.
I don’t want a paxman level of grilling, I just want them to not enable the terribleness.Posted 5 months ago
Channel 4 news are about the only ones nowadays who actually interview politicians properly. The BBC is a total waste of space. They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’ which means they’re prepared to let someone like Farage sit there spouting lie after lie after lie, totally unchallenged, because… balancePosted 5 months ago
I don’t want a paxman level of grilling, I just want them to not enable the terribleness.
It would have to be ‘Full Paxo’ in a lot of cases, though.
The vast majority of MPs are in possession of a good level of intelligence and the vast majority will be saying, in private, what we all know. A good Brexit is an impossibility and a 100% contradiction in terms. They just can’t say it because they are afraid to. In the context of what we are talking about here, how long/far should an interviewer push them to elicit this truth?
Verbal trickery? Reducto ad absurdum? Sleep deprivation? White noise?Posted 5 months ago
Posted 5 months ago
John Humphries does it all the time – the problem is that the average Joe ‘soundbite/snippet’ relier only remembers the first time something like this happens. So everyone (me included) only remembers the Michael Howard one when there have been hundreds of comparable incidences since. Granted that the Howard one was because Paxo had backed him into a corner where the only answer was yes/no so anything other than a definitive yes/no was obviously evasion.kelvinSubscriber
Count me in…
Posted 5 months ago
Brexit will not free us from the injustices of global capitalism, but make us subordinate to Trump’s US.
If we remain, we can reform the EU. We can recharge the economy, re-fuel the NHS, build the houses we need.
We can restore hope to the UK after years of hurt. pic.twitter.com/6GZBJHlvRx
— David Lammy (@DavidLammy) January 10, 2019
I totally get it. I think that most of the country outside the south east (now effectively a country within a country) feels just as shut out and excluded from Westminster politics and totally unrepresented by the two main parties. None of the rest of us are even on the radar.
If I was in Scotland, voting SNP would be an absolute no-brainer. I just wish that we had the option to give both labour and the Tory’s the same two fingers, and vote for a party that seems to actually represent something other than their own narrow self-interest, and the eternal ‘is it our turn now?’ two party system that has delivered us into this car-crash!Posted 5 months agomolgripsSubscriber
The striking thing about most if not all the SNP is how articulate they are compared to the rest.
It’s because they are in a unique situation. They have totally won their own political battle whilst not being in the one everyone else is fighting. So they can make great speeches without having to worry about pissing anyone off.Posted 5 months agoChrisLSubscriber
The BBC is a total waste of space. They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’ which means they’re prepared to let someone like Farage sit there spouting lie after lie after lie, totally unchallenged, because… balance
I’ve certainly heard BBC interviewers challenge MPs on the nonsense they’re spouting. However the worst pedlars of nonsense have learnt well from Trump and will quite blatantly deny evidence and claim their own version of reality when challenged.
One horrid example was Jacob Rees Mogg being interviewed by Evan Davis. When Evan Davis suggested to Mogg that virtually no economists agreed with his rosy predictions for a no deal Brexit, Mogg went on the attack, accusing Davis of impugning his honour and terrible rudeness. Yet moments later Mogg was attacking Mark Carney for being a “second-rate failed Canadian politician”.Posted 5 months ago
Don’t fall for the “SNP better” dialog. To pick two subjects; They have the power and the money to actually help the WASPI women and say bye bye to the the so called “rape clause” in Scotland. But they don’t because they’d rather moan and cry about it in “westmonster” than put their money where their alleged values are.
Even their rhetoric in Europe is a giggle when you compare it to directly comparable statements on the UK “single market”
They also threatened to use EU citizens as a bargaining chip if the EU didn’t let them back in if they won the independence vote (which was a vote to LEAVE Europe as well as the UK).
In essence they avoid scrutiny by speaking out loudly about things that westminister is doing to scotland, while studiously avoiding putting any of those things right in Scotland. (After all if things were better some people might decide that independence isn’t necessary”).
Education is definitely worse, and health arguably so.
It genuinely saddens me to rob people of the hope, but their faith is misplaced.
Even on the recent issue of the treatment of MPs by protesters, have a google and comparison about Jim Murphys treatment during the independence referendum, and then look for the condemnation from the SNP.
As a freudian example of the difficulty of holding contradictory positions in your head all the time, here are a few tweets from Nichola recently.
The first was deleted and replaced with the second.
edited for clarityPosted 5 months agoCougarSubscriber
It’s not intelligence, it’s integrity
Pristine hammer / nail-head interface there, my good sir.
The press are a lot more than complicit in my view
Complicit? They’re wholly ****ing culpable. Never mind that bloody pig-worrier in a suit, if the shitrags hadn’t spent decades whipping up mass hatred against foreigners and poor people, and mainstream TV channels giving kippers so much airtime, “should we leave the EU?” would have got about six votes.
They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’
Whenever hear this I’m reminded of Dara O’Briain.Posted 5 months ago
PS Personally I’m not completely without hope (despite a lack of political leadership) that we can end Brexit.
I’ve had enough constitutional chicanery and political backwardness in my life overall (grew up in NI through the troubles plus the years up to 2014 in scotland now this).
But as Churchill (I think) said; When walking through hell. Keep walking.
I second that Cougar. “Get in the ****’ sack” :o)Posted 5 months ago
But I said fe* not fu*?
sobriety, I’d go further back than purgatory, why die in the first place :O)
I like to think that we’ll all look back on this decade someday as a timely but ultimately safe reminder that politics is important, nationalism is stupid, and that sitting back leaving it all to those people who developed strong opinions at uni and never rethought anything might be a mistake.
Who knows.Posted 5 months ago
This made me laugh from the Mash today, as there was one of them on Chanel 4 news last night saying how the EU is a capitalist conspiracy that ‘forced governments to privatise everything’. Hmmmm… yes… ok….. of course they do…Posted 5 months agoDrJMember
Not really brexit related, but if we’re talking media bias how the hell do people think the BBC is a nest of communists when they have the likes of Andrew Neil as one of their flagship political commentators?
Who says they are, though? Andrew Neil? Nick Robinson? Laura Kuensberg? Communists? I used to think Andrew Marr was at least soggy left but his recent stunt with Corbyn – demanding he face the camera and apologise for AS – and his ambush of Carole Cadwalladr, along with his comfy chat with the Maybot have put paid to that delusion.Posted 5 months agonickcSubscriber
The Beeb are changing I think. In an early morning news update, they did actually accuse Pres Trump of lying, and used those words to describe it. IE.
“President Trumps has claimed he never directly suggested that Mexico would pay for the wall, however this is a lie… ”
and so the report went on to describe the times that he said exactly that. One can perhaps hope they’ll start this strategy with our politiciansPosted 5 months ago
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