EU Referendum – are you in or out?

Viewing 40 posts - 57,161 through 57,200 (of 63,154 total)
  • EU Referendum – are you in or out?
  • Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I think that if theres one positive to come out of this whole shambles its that surely absolutely nobody can be under any illusions any more about how utterly useles our ‘political class’ are, right the way across the board? Completely intellectually vacant, wilfully ignorant, totally self-serving and on a practical level; thoroughly inept and incompetent!

    Seriously… can you think of a single one of them to emerge with anything positive worth saying about them? I’d say that there are a 2 or 3…. Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry and maybe Kier Starmer.

    The rest of them…? Dear God!

    Premier Icon 16stonepig
    Subscriber

    Seriously… can you think of a single one of them to emerge with anything positive worth saying about them? I’d say that there are a 2 or 3…. Dominic Grieve, Anna Soubry and maybe Kier Starmer.

    David Lammy

    scotroutes
    Member

    The “political class” covers more than 2 parties and more than Westminster.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Fair point… David Lammy, for sure.

    Whats been ruthlessly exposed is the vacuum at the top of both main parties. Chris Grayling is still Transport secratery, apparently secure in his job. And Dianne Abbott is what passes for a political heavyweight in the Labour Party. That tells you everything you need to know about where we are with our present ‘frontbench’ politics

    Premier Icon theotherjonv
    Subscriber

    Astonishing isn’t it, how much more impressive the non-politicians are on QT?

    and

    can you think of a single one of them to emerge with anything positive worth saying about them? I’d say that there are a 2 or 3….

    Career politicians mainly whose main interest is in staying in a career in politics. I refuse to believe they are all as stupid as they can appear, but in an effort to keep their jobs and party positions, they just do what the whips tell them to. It’s not intelligence, it’s integrity to do the right things rather than the self-serving. And given that many (genuinely, i believe) went into politics to try to do good, where this gets derailed and they just become tied to the gravy train like all the rest, I don’t know.

    The ones who stand out, like the Yellow Lady, are not that much more intelligent if at all, but they are simply speaking what they believe instead of a finessed version of the party line.

    On top of which – when the party line becomes so frustratingly and obviously indefensible, they then revert to PR tactics of listening to a question, offering a nothing answer followed by some linking words and then talking about whatever they want to anyway. ALL THE BLOODY TIME.

    I’d like the press to say ‘enough’s enough’ and when they won’t answer clearly and unambiguously, refuse to give them the airtime, and instead just play suitable music (Benny Hill theme for example) over their answers.

    sobriety
    Member

    I’d like the press to pull them up on it, and bully them into either giving a proper answer or refusing to answer at all – actual journalists doing their job, the press are in many ways complicit in the current mess.

    johnx2
    Member

    Yvette Cooper did okay with her amendment to the finance bill. Backbench of course.

    Klunk
    Member

    I’d like the press to say ‘enough’s enough’ and when they won’t answer clearly and unambiguously, refuse to give them the airtime, and instead just play suitable music (Benny Hill theme for example) over their answers.

    the bbc should also stop playing devils advocate with “the Government would say blah blah” (as they did with the 1 in 5 children in food insecurity story). I’m sorry if the government are not prepared to defend their position in person with a minister it is not the job of the bbc to do it for them.

    mickmcd
    Member

    After watching Peter grant of the SNP just put the Tories in their place I’m not so sure the SNP shouldn’t be running the country….not one of them had any regiments about what he just said…well no one who dare stand up and put their paper house argument against

    The press are a lot more than complicit in my view …

    Whether that is the full blown “enemies of the people” campaigns or the slow drip feed of lies and misinformation over the last 30-40 years…

    The trouble is the tail is wagging the dog… politicians should be prepared to steer/educate and inform the masses, stand up for what they believe in and persuade folks into understanding their position. However what they have to do is bend with the wind to keep a bunch of folk happy who have had their opinions handed to them by the media… (the right wing media is particularly bad but the left wing media are at it too)

    That is one of the reasons why we have ended up where we are

    dannyh
    Member

    I’d like the press to pull them up on it, and bully them into either giving a proper answer or refusing to answer at all – actual journalists doing their job, the press are in many ways complicit in the current mess.

    Never seen Paxo doing this to Michael Howard way back when?

    John Humphries does it all the time – the problem is that the average Joe ‘soundbite/snippet’ relier only remembers the first time something like this happens. So everyone (me included) only remembers the Michael Howard one when there have been hundreds of comparable incidences since. Granted that the Howard one was because Paxo had backed him into a corner where the only answer was yes/no so anything other than a definitive yes/no was obviously evasion.

    If journos get too aggro the politicians will just hide or run away and everything will be done by written statements – which won’t contain anything more than ambiguities.

    The spectre of one BBC employee anchoring the programme in the studio asking another BBC employee stood outside Downing Street what they think of something always makes me turn the channel over. This only happens because the politicians don’t dare put anyone up for an interview, so the BBC tries to busk it.

    dannyh
    Member

    ^^^^^^^^

    Very much like the ‘Royal Correspondent’ that Armstrong and Miller used to take off.

    sobriety
    Member

    Yup, I was thinking of an idea like brass eye, where if the statement is bullshit it’s read out by a clown.

    It just winds me up watching a journalist nodding along to a politician who is clearly spouting utter bollocks/not answering the question at all. For **** sakes, just pull them up on it, it’s part of your job, and not doing it is basically an affront to journalistic integrity.

    I don’t want a paxman level of grilling, I just want them to not enable the terribleness.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Channel 4 news are about the only ones nowadays who actually interview politicians properly. The BBC is a total waste of space. They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’ which means they’re prepared to let someone like Farage sit there spouting lie after lie after lie, totally unchallenged, because… balance

    dannyh
    Member

    I don’t want a paxman level of grilling, I just want them to not enable the terribleness.

    It would have to be ‘Full Paxo’ in a lot of cases, though.

    The vast majority of MPs are in possession of a good level of intelligence and the vast majority will be saying, in private, what we all know. A good Brexit is an impossibility and a 100% contradiction in terms. They just can’t say it because they are afraid to. In the context of what we are talking about here, how long/far should an interviewer push them to elicit this truth?

    Verbal trickery? Reducto ad absurdum? Sleep deprivation? White noise?

    scotroutes
    Member

    John Humphries does it all the time – the problem is that the average Joe ‘soundbite/snippet’ relier only remembers the first time something like this happens. So everyone (me included) only remembers the Michael Howard one when there have been hundreds of comparable incidences since. Granted that the Howard one was because Paxo had backed him into a corner where the only answer was yes/no so anything other than a definitive yes/no was obviously evasion.

    mariner
    Member

    Dont know if you can get the parliament channel to playback but Mhairi Blacks speech yesterday was a cracker. The striking thing about most if not all the SNP is how articulate they are compared to the rest.

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    David Lammy

    Count me in…

    Premier Icon kelvin
    Subscriber

    Dont know if you can get the parliament channel to playback but Mhairi Blacks speech yesterday was a cracker.

    This one?

    kerley
    Member

    I would vote SNP based on what I have seen from them and not surprising they took over Scotland. They do largely appear more honest with more integrity but if I looked deeper I may be disappointed I suppose.

    Can you see why the idea of the Scots cutting loose from Westminster and many of the Little Englander attitudes was/is appealing up here?
    There is obviously a lot more nuance to it than that, but still…

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I totally get it. I think that most of the country outside the south east (now effectively a country within a country) feels just as shut out and excluded from Westminster politics and totally unrepresented by the two main parties. None of the rest of us are even on the radar.

    If I was in Scotland, voting SNP would be an absolute no-brainer. I just wish that we had the option to give both labour and the Tory’s the same two fingers, and vote for a party that seems to actually represent something other than their own narrow self-interest, and the eternal ‘is it our turn now?’ two party system that has delivered us into this car-crash!

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    I am reminded of Robin Day interviewing John Nott.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    The striking thing about most if not all the SNP is how articulate they are compared to the rest.

    It’s because they are in a unique situation. They have totally won their own political battle whilst not being in the one everyone else is fighting. So they can make great speeches without having to worry about pissing anyone off.

    Premier Icon ChrisL
    Subscriber

    The BBC is a total waste of space. They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’ which means they’re prepared to let someone like Farage sit there spouting lie after lie after lie, totally unchallenged, because… balance

    I’ve certainly heard BBC interviewers challenge MPs on the nonsense they’re spouting. However the worst pedlars of nonsense have learnt well from Trump and will quite blatantly deny evidence and claim their own version of reality when challenged.

    One horrid example was Jacob Rees Mogg being interviewed by Evan Davis. When Evan Davis suggested to Mogg that virtually no economists agreed with his rosy predictions for a no deal Brexit, Mogg went on the attack, accusing Davis of impugning his honour and terrible rudeness. Yet moments later Mogg was attacking Mark Carney for being a “second-rate failed Canadian politician”.

    PrinceJohn
    Member

    The striking thing about most if not all the SNP is how articulate they are compared to the rest.

    They really should start a takeover of UK politics – send a few candidates down south for the next election, see how they get on. I would probably vote for them.

    DrJ
    Member

    . Yet moments later Mogg was attacking Mark Carney for being a “second-rate failed Canadian politician”.

    Regardless of the fact that Carney was NEVER a politician.

    Premier Icon Del
    Subscriber

    I’ve said this about the SNP a few times. I’m glad folk are catching on!
    In fact the logical extension of this is for them to take over at Westminster and sack off the nationalism. Remain and reform….

    Premier Icon dazh
    Subscriber

    Not really brexit related, but if we’re talking media bias how the hell do people think the BBC is a nest of communists when they have the likes of Andrew Neil as one of their flagship political commentators?

    Don’t fall for the “SNP better” dialog. To pick two subjects; They have the power and the money to actually help the WASPI women and say bye bye to the the so called “rape clause” in Scotland. But they don’t because they’d rather moan and cry about it in “westmonster” than put their money where their alleged values are.

    Even their rhetoric in Europe is a giggle when you compare it to directly comparable statements on the UK “single market”

    They also threatened to use EU citizens as a bargaining chip if the EU didn’t let them back in if they won the independence vote (which was a vote to LEAVE Europe as well as the UK).

    In essence they avoid scrutiny by speaking out loudly about things that westminister is doing to scotland, while studiously avoiding putting any of those things right in Scotland. (After all if things were better some people might decide that independence isn’t necessary”).

    Education is definitely worse, and health arguably so.

    It genuinely saddens me to rob people of the hope, but their faith is misplaced.

    Even on the recent issue of the treatment of MPs by protesters, have a google and comparison about Jim Murphys treatment during the independence referendum, and then look for the condemnation from the SNP.

    As a freudian example of the difficulty of holding contradictory positions in your head all the time, here are a few tweets from Nichola recently.
    The first was deleted and replaced with the second.
    From Twitter.

    edited for clarity

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    It’s not intelligence, it’s integrity

    Pristine hammer / nail-head interface there, my good sir.

    The press are a lot more than complicit in my view

    Complicit? They’re wholly ****ing culpable. Never mind that bloody pig-worrier in a suit, if the shitrags hadn’t spent decades whipping up mass hatred against foreigners and poor people, and mainstream TV channels giving kippers so much airtime, “should we leave the EU?” would have got about six votes.

    They’re now obsessed with this whole idea of ‘balance’

    Whenever hear this I’m reminded of Dara O’Briain.

    PS Personally I’m not completely without hope (despite a lack of political leadership) that we can end Brexit.

    I’ve had enough constitutional chicanery and political backwardness in my life overall (grew up in NI through the troubles plus the years up to 2014 in scotland now this).

    But as Churchill (I think) said; When walking through hell. Keep walking.

    I second that Cougar. “Get in the ****’ sack” :o)

    sobriety
    Member

    Unless there’s a nice big button every 15m to reset yourself back to purgatory to have a think about whether walking through hell is really such a great idea in the first place.

    But I said fe* not fu*?
    Ah well

    sobriety, I’d go further back than purgatory, why die in the first place :O)

    I like to think that we’ll all look back on this decade someday as a timely but ultimately safe reminder that politics is important, nationalism is stupid, and that sitting back leaving it all to those people who developed strong opinions at uni and never rethought anything might be a mistake.

    Who knows.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Subscriber

    But I said fe* not fu*?

    There’s a reason that’s in the swear filter – it’s not swearing per se but it was being over-used to a point that it got out of hand.

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    This made me laugh from the Mash today, as there was one of them on Chanel 4 news last night saying how the EU is a capitalist conspiracy that ‘forced governments to privatise everything’. Hmmmm… yes… ok….. of course they do…

    Everyone dying to ask left-wing Brexiter what ****ing planet he’s on

    DrJ
    Member

    Not really brexit related, but if we’re talking media bias how the hell do people think the BBC is a nest of communists when they have the likes of Andrew Neil as one of their flagship political commentators?

    Who says they are, though? Andrew Neil? Nick Robinson? Laura Kuensberg? Communists? I used to think Andrew Marr was at least soggy left but his recent stunt with Corbyn – demanding he face the camera and apologise for AS – and his ambush of Carole Cadwalladr, along with his comfy chat with the Maybot have put paid to that delusion.

    brakes
    Member

    Who says they are, though?

    old people like my Da.

    Premier Icon nickc
    Subscriber

    The Beeb are changing I think. In an early morning news update, they did actually accuse Pres Trump of lying, and used those words to describe it. IE.

    “President Trumps has claimed he never directly suggested that Mexico would pay for the wall, however this is a lie… ”

    and so the report went on to describe the times that he said exactly that. One can perhaps hope they’ll start this strategy with our politicians

Viewing 40 posts - 57,161 through 57,200 (of 63,154 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.