Enduro Racing on an Ebike? Slower?

Other than the obvious advantages of making the bits between the stages a doddle, do ebikes not lead to slower stage times? I’m no racing regular but i would have thought that all the flat out peddally bits on a lot of stages would exceed the 15.5mph cut out and thus leave you are trying to pedal a very heavy anchor.

Or not?

I’d have thought there is little to nothing in it on the descents and I expect the climbs would take care of any difference on any flat sections.

Don’t they tend to be different courses anyway more tailored to eebs?

I’m still struggling with long covid so I’ve had a go on a friend’s one a couple of times.

Much easier on the climbs, obviously, and that’s where I’m struggling just now, but yes it is noticeablely slower on the descents and flats. This is a legal one, so there is a limiter. It accelerates well up to the limit but becomes very draggy and feels very heavy as soon as that is reached. It also decelerates very rapidly if you stop pedalling and is noticeablely harder to lift over stuff (as in step ups and things, not as in carrying it, although that is even more of a difference…)

This is a top-end Bergemont on a mix or marked and off-piste trails at Glentress. I can’t wait to get back on my Solaris or Orange Alpine 5.

When I rode my normal bike with a different friend on an ebike in the spring he had the same issue, he was waiting for me on the climbs but couldn’t keep up on the descents, and he’s a better rider than me on the techy stuff, that was at Innerleithen.

Anyway, to the answer the OP, as the climbs are generally not the timed bits, and it’s slower on the bits which are timed, yes, it will be slower in an enduro, you’ll just get between stages a bit quicker.

but yes it is noticeablely slower on the descents

Really? In my experience, ebikes are very good downhill. Never timed any runs scientifically but I’m not sure there’s much of a difference.

I would say the assist on the transitions will mean you have more energy on the stage

For most terrain, a well setup ebike is going to descend faster for a non-pro level rider as they are so stable.  On extreme steepest terrain, (eg: off piste alpine), the weight can become a disadvantage, but race courses rarely include the most extreme steep tracks.

They make a massive difference in practicing the course – something up if you’re not going faster on an ebike on raceday, for this reason alone.

If there lots of slow corners to power out of too, that can speed them up vs a regular bike

Like for like rider I can’t see why they’d be slower – and based on my own experience with FS and eFS, no slower and obviously any stage with ANY form of climb in it, the eBike will be quicker.

Not seen any around us, but are there enduro stages with lengthy +15mph pedally sections in them?

If there lots of slow corners to power out of too, that can speed them up vs a regular bike

I found the opposite . There is a noticeable delay before the motor kicks in, which between a succession of tight corners with only one or two pedal strokes between each sometimes it doesn’t have time to kick in at all, the normal bike picks up straight away.

The normal bike also loses less speed when you have to stop pedalling, for instance to get your pedals in a particular position to avoid an obstacle.

Tight downhill the normal bike just handles better, accelerates better (in terms of where it does this, not in terms of power), decelerates less and is faster. Wide open easy downhills the normal bike isn’t constrained by the limiter and is faster.

Tight uphills the ebike isn’t that much faster as really tight hairpins are much slower die to the sheer weight of the thing, wide open uphills, yes it is faster, and more so the steeper it is.

I like the ebike in that it has got me riding again before I would otherwise have been able to, but that’s it, I’m desperate to get back to a proper bike.

Easy way to tell, check stage times for whatever Enduro on Roots and Rain.
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Assuming it’s a decent emtb with similar components to the non ebike it’s being compared to, and not some e bike shaped object, I’d expect the ebike to be the same or faster downhill for most people on most tracks. Maybe there could be a very particular style of track where a normal bike would be quicker, but not by much.

My experience of ebikes does not match at all with Andrewh, except for them being draggy when pedalling above the cut off speed, and then that can be mitigated a lot by keeping a high cadence, or making sure the downhill is steep enough for it not to matter .

I don’t get any drag when just coasting (why would there be? It’s just freewheeling same as a normal bike, the motor is not in play at all ) , and there no noticeable lag when getting on the power, at least not with any of the main motor systems I have used (tq, bosch CX, shimano ep8)

Check the results on https://www.rootsandrain.com/event-list/  and there’s very little in it. The top MTB riders are probably not the sort to race on EBikes anyway (cos they is better!), so are usually faster, but not always and not by a lot. No doubt it depends on the type of trail. You’re never gonna get a like for like comparison, so nearest is to compare the top riders in the top cats.

Few examples:

Top MTB (am) Calum MCBAIN   1- 1:44.402   2- 2:20.89    3- 1:25.461 4- 1:40.091 5- 2:38.152 6- 3:41.051  total 14:07.02

Top eMTB (am) Robbie DOWSON  1- 1:49.583 2- 2:29.111 3- 1:29.392 4- 1:44.281 5- 2:42.932 6- 3:49.671  total 14:42.72

Top MTB (pro)  Kyler CHUMBLEY  1- 2:10.771  2- 1:47.233  3- 1:25.581 Total 5:23.58

Top EMTB (pro) Brian PARKER    1-  2:04.411  2- 1:39.091   3- 1:27.112 Total 5:10.61

Lots of races on there to choose from and analyse if you’re really interested!

more than likely the rider, have a look on rootsandrain last years boltby won by an ebike 8:29 versus 2nd 8:44

definately depends on weather, ground conditions and number length of flat sections,

ardrock stage1 the middle section with a headwind is brutal as are other stages.

on the old pmba,s the flat fireroad sprints, again disadvantage the pedaller

my own experience of riding an ebike in finale, if you mess up a corner on a regular bike it can take some energy to get back upto speed, whilst on an ebike on bosch blue a quick dab of the pedal and you are back upto speed, they are also far more planted than a lighter bike

Easy way to tell, check stage times for whatever Enduro on Roots and Rain.

Well ive just done this on one of enduro stages i was thinking of. Looks like the emtb is about 1-2 seconds quicker. That pretty much answers my question then.

Strange, as i remember being taken aback about by how much pedalling was involved, all of which felt like it was higher than 15+ mph. If its down or up i can see how the emtb would be quicker, but on those flattish sprint bits? I just assumed they would hold you back. I’m obviously wrong.

When I was fit enough to be catching an E-bike on an Enduro stage, it did seem easier to gain at higher speeds, but as soon as power was required, like a short high section over roots or out of slow corners., it was off again. Plus I’d be running out of puff near the end of the stage, especially after all that unassisted climbing.

Strange, as i remember being taken aback about by how much pedalling was involved, all of which felt like it was higher than 15+ mph.

it might feel fast, but is it really? if you are stood up and gurning in your 32-10 gear on flat/gentle downhill, thats not a whole lot over 15mph. and your ebike equivilent got a power assisted run-up to get up to that speed*, and the motor drag is not that bad, so its probably not much of a difference.

being able to power through the tougher sections is where they make their time, although as pointed out they might take a few pedal strokes to fully get going.

*a bit like pulling away quick from traffic lights in a car. If you tear off and then stick to the speed limit, you can get quite a gap on the ditherers behind you, unless they end up speeding to catch you up.

“It accelerates well up to the limit but becomes very draggy and feels very heavy as soon as that is reached. It also decelerates very rapidly if you stop pedalling and is noticeablely harder to lift over stuff (as in step ups and things, not as in carrying it, although that is even more of a difference…)”

I’m sure e-bikes vary a lot. But I’ve not found any of this with my Levo. On flat trails the better rolling of the 29” wheels made it quicker than my normal 27.5” full-sus when the Levo had the power off, so there can’t have been much motor drag. But I’m not running super sticky dual plies – which some do on e-bikes because there’s a motor to help.

There is a feeling of extra inertia to manhandle (so lighter or less strong riders may hate that – I’m not big but I have a fairly unsubtle way of manhandling a bike) but once it’s rolling it’s faster than me!

I’m failing to see why the limiter is an issue…if you are able to get the bike above that speed then momentum and the gradient is likely to keep you going above that speed…20mph is 20mph whether on an electric or normal bike – is it not?

“20mph is 20mph whether on an electric or normal bike – is it not?”

There is apparently a small amount of motor drag but on a Gen 2 Levo it feels tiny compared to tyre drag.

I swear the “massive drag” people quote beyond the limiter is actually the loss of assistance plus a small amount of extra inertia causing more force in opposition to your acceleration. Feels slower is different to actually being slower.

Feels slower is different to actually being slower.

Yeah this.

As with everything. It depends.

Quite a lot of trails such as ones a lot of people are familiar with such as say Mallards Pike at Fod, maybe Staunton, tend to start flatter at the top with not too much gradient and then steepen up quite a lot later.

When you’re just chilling, you might not be too bothered by hitting the cutout on the tops but I imagine if you’re racing and burying yourself then if it’s quite an extended section of relatively flat then it’s surely got to be or at least feel like harder work.

As soon as the gradient picks up, I reckon the eeb is faster because they just ride so well in the rough.

Definitive science-based test please Singletrack 🙂

Personally I find there’s not much difference on steeper trails unless it involves repeated tight slow turns (where I prefer the Hightower) but I’m definitely slower around trail centre red/black stuff after the cutoff. My ebike is over 26kg and I’m running heavy tires so not really surprised but I didn’t buy it to race or ride trail centres

Having raced both, I would say, it depends.

When it’s really muddy & flat, the ebike can be an advantage, as long as you can get traction.

On faster flat stuff, it’s slower, as you are over the motor surprisingly quickly.

All things being equal, I think I’m a bit slower on the ebike over the normal one on the stages for most UK enduros. Apart from The Ex this year where I got smoked by people on e-bikes I would normally expect to beat. Obviously it is a massive energy saver on big days out with a motor.

If it means anything (not really), I have won races on eebs & leg bikes.

I don’t race but my impression on an SL ebike:

more energy for bike inputs due to less tiring pedally bits during and between trails

more able to keep above threshold speed i.e. some speed below which certain trail features get more awkward/slow

less confident to push limits on speed or trail features at the edge of my comfort zone

On a full power bike (25kg not 20kg) that last one was way worse, lost control of it a couple of times and it was a case of holding on and pointing it in the right direction.