Ebike at Bike Park Wales for the under-14s

Hi

I want to take my 12-yr old to BPW, but he wants to use his e-bike. There is a note on their web site which states:

“To ride an E-bike you must be 14 years of age or older by UK law.”

The Cycling UK web site says:

“the law states you must be 14 years of age or over to ride an e-bike on public roads. However, someone under 14 can ride an e-bike off road.”

The only reference to this I can find is the Road Traffic Act (RTA) which states you must be at least 14 to ride on the road. I queried BPW and they said:

“This law does apply to our park. The park is owned by Natural Resources Wales, and has public bridleways and fire roads, therefore governed by the laws of the highway. In order to ride an E-Bike at the park you must be 14 years old or older.”

I can’t find a definition of what constitues a road under the RTA, but cannot believe it includes bridleways and fireroads, otherwise there’s not much that would consitiute “offroad” if these were excluded.

Does anyone know or understand the legal basis for what BPW are saying?

Many thanks

“Off road” generally means on privately owned land… and with landowner’s permission of course.

Don’t take the ebike and have a good day or don’t go…their rules and they’ve stated them on website and confirmed to you.

I’m one of the baffled people who can’t work out why healthy kids need an ebike, hence my suggestion.

Does anyone know or understand the legal basis for what BPW are saying?

Their park, their rules.

Their insurers too.

I looked into this for coaching/guiding for a friend and the underlying law is not totally clear on the road Vs. Off road element (unless some clarity has been added). It was our conclusion therefore that interpretation as no under 14s was the best policy as it prevents you ending up on the wrong side if something should happen. I guess BPW has the same idea.

“Off road” generally means on privately owned land… and with landowner’s permission of course.

This.

Their park, their rules.

And very much this.

Well, in this case, it’s because I had a knee replacement 4 months ago. I’m not ready to hit the bike parks on a manual bike and he doesn’t want to get left behind. Also, we want to do BPW, Afan and FlyUp 417 back to back, given they’re all the other side of the country for us.

Also, where we are, you can’t go anywhere without using bridleways, so irrespective of BPW’s rules, I wanted to understand what the actual law was.

Can’t you just throttle back a bit so your son can happily keep up on a normal bike?

TBH, I hadn’t realised children riding e-bikes was a thing. Seems a shame really… where’s the learning curve?!

Seems like a pretty simple ‘take a tow rope’situation. 🙂

“the law states you must be 14 years of age or over to ride an e-bike on public roads.”

It may or may not have anything to do with it but the uplift road (and presumably others) within Bike Park Wales have some sort of public highway classification – hence the vans needing to be MOT’ed and have tachos. (This is info from an uplift driver – may be total bollox).

TBH, I hadn’t realised children riding e-bikes was a thing. Seems a shame really… where’s the learning curve?!

Not so much the learning curve, but it seems a shame to limit their exposure to the magic of bicycles.

12 year old…….e-bike…….what the chuff? I do hope my 11 year old doesn’t see this!

Just alter his DOB on his passport so he’s 14.

Children aged over 14 years are allowed to ride e-bikes anywhere normal pedal bicycles are allowed (i.e. roads, bridleways, national forests and trail centres). They must not be ridden on pavements.

Children below this age limit are allowed to ride e-bikes on bridleways and on private land with the land owners permission.

They are not allowed to ride them on the road, on pavements or in the national forests (including trail centres).

Source

Are kids e-bikes legal in the UK?

Public rights of way are vaguely classed as the highway and therefore basically roads… It’s all legal waffle from the days before cars.

Ultimately if BPW say no ebikes are allowed, that is their rule of entry and it doesn’t need any legal basis.

The reasoning behind it is almost certainly going to be related in some part to what they have specified to their insurance providers. I expect some element of this is down to the fact there is a publicly accessible car park.

I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.

Can we confirm that it’s just kids on ebikes we’re outraged by? Or is it also kids being towed, kids in uplift vehicles and/or kids using chairlifts etc?

I for one am now going to insure that my kids skin up mountains if they get to go skiing in future.

It’s an uplift, why would he be “left behind” on a non-ebike – or is it you’re not prepared to wait for him?

And TBH when I took my kids riding when they were younger I always preferred them in front of me, especially when descending.

Another confused person here….are you riding up rather than uplifting? If you’re uplifting then how will he be left behind? Caveat here is that I have neither kids nor an ebike. Do people really take ebikes on an uplift? ?

My initial reaction to kids that age on eMTBs was a WTF.

Then I thought about it some more. I suppose my initial reaction probably comes from how I used a bike as a kid. And also the price. But….In the world of winch and plummet riding I guess it’s no different to an adult doing the same. It’s basically a different pastime. Or if not a different one a sufficiently different attitude to the same pastime that it might as well be a different one – and that’s regardless of age. But kids ride MX bikes and no one gets snippy that they are not pushing them to keep fit. The cost is a bit scary – part of being a kid is trashing stuff because they know no better.  Or at best being mildly abusive. But if parents are sufficiently flush or indulgent….Plenty of other sports with expensive kit….struggling to think of anything as expensive as an eMTB – sailing maybe could be if you sailed to right boat.

This bit made no sense though…

I’m not ready to hit the bike parks on a manual bike and he doesn’t want to get left behind

You kid got an eMTB because when you got yours you couldn’t bare to slow down a bit so he could keep up on a conventional bike?

I’d imagine young Dobbin in a field up the road is easily as expensive as a bike

A young potential trail advocate/riding buddy getting outside and riding rather than stuck to a screen? How could that not be a good thing?

We need all the friends we can get, let’s not pull that gatekeeping nonsense, eh?

Some weird responses, ebikes are fun, kids love fun, you see youngsters on ebikes at windhill, FoD, etc, they are out in the open and using energy, most have other hobbies, or stuff that gets them cardio, it could be worse, they could be on sur-ron!

As for the original question, others have answered it, it’s Ts and Cs for BPW and it’ll be the same at 417, they have a legal requirement so will not be able to say anything but this, your options are manual bike and uplift, or turn up with ebikes and potentially be turned away, i’m not sure of their vetting for this stuff, only ever gone with the manual for uplifts, and i’m way past being age checked!

So its ok when you are a fat middle aged man to sit in the back of a truck that causes loads of environmental damage that takes you to the top of a trail so you can just ride down with ease, rather than riding up?

But a kid who is prepared to cycle up is somehow wrong ???

Yes I would be a little concerned if a 12/14 yr old road nothing but an ebike but this isnt that. This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people

As for the original question, others have answered it, it’s Ts and Cs for BPW and it’ll be the same at 417

Actually its probably not. The issue is with public forests, and whether they are classified as roads (the access and fire-roads etc.). BPW exists within a publicly owned forest, whereas I believe 417 is on private land. The rules would be different as I understand it.

You see loads of kids on e-bikes at bpw – a lot clearly under 14. If the rule is there it’s not being policed.

Ultimately if BPW say no ebikes are allowed, that is their rule of entry and it doesn’t need any legal basis.

This. Their park, their rules and any Road Traffic Act stuff around what does and does not constitute “a highway” is irrelevant.

I’m just disappointed that there are 12 year old kids riding ebikes.

Used to get similar comments at circuit races when kids started turning up with Di2 – often hand-me-down stuff from a parent’s bike rather than brand new but still, electronic gears for 12 year olds?! But actually it makes a lot of sense. Kids have less grip power and hand strength than adults so a system that minimises reach and stretch to change gears is perfect. Especially lower level groupsets – Tiagra and Sora were well known for requiring significant lever throw to change gear which young/small hands often struggled with.

Same with an e-bike – if it allows a kid to do some reasonable climbs rather than just pottering around the green route then great stuff! I’ve been MTBing with my young nieces a few times and they rapidly get tired, they’re bored of the limited options on the basic family trails and would love to be out for a bit longer. Many adults on e-bikes are using them for exactly that purpose!

Actually its probably not. The issue is with public forests, and whether they are classified as roads (the access and fire-roads etc.). BPW exists within a publicly owned forest, whereas I believe 417 is on private land. The rules would be different as I understand it.

As others say, the public vs private argument isn’t the issue, BPW and 417 are businesses that have to follow all relevant legislation and laws, and their insurers will require them to stipulate this, and any other caveats within their Ts and Cs, they’ll both have specific rules, otherwise you could just rock up to 417 with an 8 year old on a surron, as it’s not illegal to do so on private land, unless the landowner does not provide permission (buy a ticket and adhere to the Ts and Cs).

This is a purpose built playground built for lazy people

Is it any wonder there is so much hate for cyclists amongst the general population when we don’t seem to like each other very much?  The above might be true if all BPW users were one dimensional drones who never do any other form of recreation or physical activity.  Like a lot of  people I suspect, I pedal up hills and ride in the woods on a human powered bike most of the time. I also go to the gym, run and enjoy other physical stuff.  I also enjoy an occasional uplift day at BPW or elsewhere because it’s a lot of fun. From observation and chatting to people on the uplift bus, I think the vast majority of people who go there are similar. If you’re looking for “lazy people”, a Bike Park is not going to be a target rich environment ime.

do 8 runs flat out at BPW and tell me you’re lazy 😀

Uplift days are WELL easy. I always come away from one thinking ‘i should have booked a whole week here, it’s just riding down hills.’

*Insert ‘tell me you’ve never done x without telling me you’ve never done x’ trope*

Anyone who does my hobby different to me is wrong.

do 8 runs flat out at BPW and tell me you’re lazy 😀

Yep. I forgot to add, of all the outdoor stuff I do, nothing leaves my whole body as battered and aching all over for days afterwards as a full day at BPW!  Being 60 and having more enthusiasm than skill doesn’t help!

I’ll admit I’m biased as I got Hoppy jr a Levo SL in the summer and he’s just now turned 13.  It’s been transformative for his riding both what he’ll do and how keen he is to do it.

Before he would come out riding but he wasn’t motivated to do it, and doing rides we’d be restricted on distance as there was only so much we could do before he got worn down. We were riding a couple of times a month generally. I could tow up hills but as he got older that became less acceptable to him, and it’s fine on a consistent winch but a ball ache if there were rollers, switchbacks and rocks/roots. It meant that identifying suitable routes was hard. He enjoyed the downs but not if he was knackered.

Since we got the e-bike he’s keen and enthusiastic, we’ve generally been riding twice a week, he wants to go out (has started doing night rides with me at the local club). He can do longer rides so we only have to consider technically whether he can manage (and generally he’s in a better state to ride them so can cope with harder things) so we can go to more places which makes him more enthused/interested. He now likes technical climbs, little weirdo. It’s meant that we can all go out and ride as a family on decent rides, we did 50km round Ryvoan pass and Laraig Ghru in the summer, did a couple of 40km ISH days round the peaks a couple of weeks back. What would have been a whole day struggle can be done in half a day and allow him time to do the other things he enjoys.

We’ve always had decent bikes for him so whilst it was undoubtedly “expensive”, compared to what bikes cost an end of line discounted LSL was not that horrific price wise. For what it’s allowed us to do and the enthusiasm it’s kindled in him it’s absolutely been worth while and value for money.

I don’t really understand the restriction on their use by under 14s, from a legislation point of view. I’ve weighed it up and decided to ignore it, he’s riding with me or the mrs in a sensible manner. We’ve not been to BPW since we got it (makes uplifts kind of pointless anyway), but we have ridden trail centres with no issue. I accept why they are making the statement but on balance I’d probably just crack on and leave if we were asked to. Compared to some of the dickish behaviour seen in some places, a 13yo riding a lightweight e-bike with his family, whilst against the rules, isn’t causing anyone any problems other than maybe raising the blood pressure of those that disagree.

Do people really take ebikes on an uplift?

Rob Warner had a vid on YouTube a while ago when he’d turned up at BPW  with his ebike, sure the driver told him that loads of people (possibly half) using the uplifts were on ebikes these days. I was at Glentress with my nephew recently and their uplift van passed us several times, at least 3 ebikes on the trailer each time. Personally I wouldn’t even think about it

Rob Warner had a vid on YouTube a while ago when he’d turned up at BPW  with his ebike, sure the driver told him that loads of people (possibly half) using the uplifts were on ebikes these days. I was at Glentress with my nephew recently and their uplift van passed us several times, at least 3 ebikes on the trailer each time. Personally I wouldn’t even think about it

Seems pretty understandable to me. eMTBs are so expensive that I’d imagine for most people it is their only mountain bike so if you go on an uplift day it’s the bike you have to take.

Why would you not take an e-bike on an uplift, if that’s the bike you own? I suspect you can get more runs in on the uplift than on the e-bike.

Assuming you are using the uplift, yoi can remove the battery to satisfy the restriction?

Notice this in Finale a couple of weeks ago.

From the shuttle uplift point there were more emtbs than mtbs for the single uplift to NATO Base and Rollercoaster. Looking round our campsite there were more emtbs than mtbs and same on the campsite uplift.

Got talking to a few of the Germans on the campsite who thought it was only the British who have a problem with Emtbs

As others say, the public vs private argument isn’t the issue

Yeah it definitely is.

I don’t really understand the restriction on their use by under 14s, from a legislation point of view.

Do you think it should be OK to give an 8 year old a bike that weighs as much as they do with a 600w max motor and let them loose on the roads?