E-mobility. Is it helping?

Genuine question, so looking for lively debate around the subject.

I keep seeing teenagers out in the countryside, between the villages and towns commuting (they’re alone) on e-scooters, e-bikes (not pedalling, mostly)  and my first thought is “they’re gonna die” as they’re usually hood up, earphones on, lights off in dark clothing, my next thought is usually around one less car – great, but a comment from a LBS owner recently has stuck in my head.  He mentioned (muttered really) that because it’s easy and essentially free, it had no value to people and so they didn’t respect it.  Not entirely sure what he meant by it, but he said it’s not really addressing the lifestyle problem at its core as people were just getting fatter and lazier.  He did sound a bit Victor Meldrew by this point, so I agreed, wished him a good day and left.

but it has had me thinking, is he right, are we teaching people that there’s always a cheap fix, a borrowed ladder, rather than having to work at something?  Heck, even a driving license has to be earned ( then you can be lazy) but fitness no longer has to be…?

Perhaps I was brought up too much in the British school system (coal mining and steel town in the north) where it was beaten in to you that pain misery and hard work were the only ways to get something achieved, whereas that’s not generally the case?

Over to you – what do you think?  Is he right or is he bitter/miserable?

If the same kids grow up and keep using them instead of a car, that’s a win for the environment.

While I personally think it’d be better if people moved under their own steam, getting people out of modes of transport that contribute to climate change is more important than the health of an individual.

He’s perhaps partially correct. I recently had some windows fitted and the company owner, 35, crossfit enthusiast was telling me about his new bicycle. Electric. I was partially amused but also quite horrified at the waste of valuable resources to entertain this fit, young person.

Seems to be mixing up two different subjects.

1. Mode of transport eg commuting to work or school or delivering meals suspiciously quickly for a cyclist.
2. As a hobby/for fitness.

The latter can cover the former but not always. A lot of the people cycling to and from work round here are working in the warehouses. I suspect for them having the battery do the work would be a bonus vs me when I cycled home after sitting at the desk all day it was enjoyable.

For the latter. Well there are some strong opinions each way.

E-bike/scooter to replace a car – good for the environment.

E-bike/scooter to replace walking and/or cycling – bad for the nations health/NHS and the environment.

He mentioned (muttered really) that because it’s easy and essentially free, it had no value to people and so they didn’t respect it.

What’s free?

If we’re looking for issues that e-mobility is causing for cycling, I’d say

Reckless riding of illegal e motorbikes Surrons etc

Delivery riders on ebikes or converted ones, riding recklessly across traffic and pedestrians while wearing all black clothing and balaclavas

Reckless riding of hire escooters and inconsiderate dumping of them on pavements and around building entrances

I think there’s benefits to health just being outside and in the air regardless of the level of exertion needed.

I see a real mix from small groups of older folk enjoying an e-spin to together to young people and commuters on e-scooters; one today even had  a helmet with lights on too.

My teenage son used my ebike yesterday to get to a Olympic lifting workshop 6 miles away as we’re away and there’s no practical busses on a Sunday. I use my ebike due to health reasons for both leisure and transport; it doesn’t need to be one or the other.

The more people out and about not in cars the more people will support getting about in ways that are not cars and have less car-centric attitudes so hopefully challenge all the negativity about. So maybe the fit young guy with  the ebike above will support being on the roads on bikes when some of his mates have anti-bike attitudes even if he’s not really exercising while doing it?  And maybe when he’s in his work van he’s more considerate?

Does the miserable git moan about wrinklies on mobility scooters too?

I don’t really know.  Maybe.  But since this point I have noticed that in the age range of 15-18 I rarely see someone riding a bike.  Scooting on a private or hire e-scooter, sure.  But not a pedal bike.

In this age range, I used to go everywhere by bike and still do.  I think that “I can go anywhere on my bike” attitude did open me up to the idea that bikes were for fun and utility and it’s always been part of my considerations for moving about it’s also part of how I stay healthy, it’s part of the balanced equation, so I can sort of see his point.  If driving became as cheap or as easy as the scooter, would they still scoot?  Would it be part of a bigger equation or was it just a necessary means to an end?  Will they remember it fondly and go back to it as many of us who ride, have and do?

I guess I’m asking if it’s sustainable (I don’t mean in terms of the environment) or is it like a fad diet – something you need at the time but doesn’t ultimately change how you live your life?  Maybe ? ?

I think an e-bike and a bicycle are two different markets and the e-market appeals to people who wouldn’t normally look at a bike for transport or fun , its a bigger market than just cyclists, cue all the influencers being being given free E-BSO’s..

Reckless riding of illegal e motorbikes Surrons etc

That’s just lazy reporting in the media, we’ve always had issues with nicked motorbikes or prior to the Surron pit-bikes were the big menace.

Much as some of the **** on e-scooters annoy me I think use of scooters etc is good.  Possibly replacing car journeys but also just maybe those who use them will have a better awareness of bicycles and motorcycles when they do get behind the wheel of a car and be better drivers as a result.  I can also hope that more people on two wheels of any kind may have an influence on transport policy away from more and more cars

What’s free?

i assumed he really meant, “they don’t buy them in my shop and I don’t stock the spare parts”… there may actually be a real issue there is essentially these become disposable.

In this age range, I used to go everywhere by bike and still do.

you were not the norm. The more people in personal e-transport the more people expect to see small vulnerable road users with different speeds, and the fewer cars on the road – therefore the roads become safer for real cycling too.  And as the roads become safer there will be more cyclists.  They are not “our enemy”.

that said the only place I’ve regularly seen e-scooters (no official trials in Scotland) were on a housing estate where I’m pretty sure they were being used for drug deliveries!

I know a guy at a well-known transport bike company and we had an interesting chat a while ago about the nature of ‘active travel’. He said the company were committed to the idea of active travel, i.e. bikes that were pedalled. I wasn’t convinced that wasn’t going to send them down a cul-de-sac in time. I think almost all people want convenient transport, and some people want to be active. The two don’t cross over for most unless you have good base fitness – for me riding 5-10 miles to get somewhere I need to be is possible if practical, for most people .. well you know that look you get from non-cyclists when you say you rode 6 miles to the office. We began talking about what the future of compact personal travel may well be and it wasn’t what that company makes (yet, perhaps). Put it this way, we don’t buy electric cars with a pedal system to get exercise while sitting in traffic and most people don’t want to pedal to the office but they may enjoy being in the open air on two wheels taking a more scenic bike path. Scooters have a long way to go imo (design, use level etc) and the cynic in me says they’re not legalised because the scope and pressure on the current infrastructure to change could be huge.

For me E-mobility is about reduced carbon footprint and localised pollution, and more liveable urban spaces. I realise battery mining and shipping stuff in from China isn’t helping but I see (or hope for) fewer cars in cities and better public or small personal transport options simply because cars are inefficient on space in cities, whatever powers them. They’re the right tool for some jobs but for one person, no load – nope.

If we’re looking for issues that e-mobility is causing for cycling, I’d say

Reckless riding of illegal e motorbikes Surrons etc

Delivery riders on ebikes or converted ones, riding recklessly across traffic and pedestrians while wearing all black clothing and balaclavas

Reckless riding of hire escooters and inconsiderate dumping of them on pavements and around building entrances

If we’re looking for issues that car driving is causing for the motoring interests, I’d say

Reckless driving killing thousands every year

Converted or modified ones, uninsured and unsafe between MOTs

Reckless parking blocking pavements, endangering children near schools, making road use difficult for many and more risky for all.

?

… i.e. the car industry is doing fine despite dickish behaviour being normal because it’s supported with infrastructure and there are invested interests in it fighting any threat to your motoring freedoms. Cycling and scootering don’t have that support.

When I was young all the 16-18 yr olds travelled around on sports mopeds, I’d have killed for an AP5o, (then shortly after died on it in all likelihood)

I guess I’m asking if it’s sustainable (I don’t mean in terms of the environment) or is it like a fad diet – something you need at the time but doesn’t ultimately change how you live your life?

this is a false binary though and it doesn’t really make sense to phrase it like that.  For some people, yeah scooters are probably a fad.  For me, with chronic fatigue / long covid, my ebike means that finally not ALL journeys have to be by car – hopefully one day I’ll be better and will be able to sell it and get back to my normal bike, but perhaps that won’t happen. It’s certainly something I ‘need at the time’, and has changed how I live my life for now, but I dearly hope that it’s not permanent.

For my colleague, her electric cargo bike means she can take little Johnny to nursery without a car.  What will happen when Johnny starts school, or gets his own bike or whatever, I don’t know, perhaps she’ll ditch the massive bike and do something else.

For my aunt and uncle, previously non-cyclists, they got ebikes and did 10 miles a day until he got really bad cancer, which might spell the end of cycling for him. Did it ‘change how he lived his life’, or did he just have a fun couple of years?  Does it matter?

I’m like you doris5000 and in a similar boat. For me electrifying my HT has been fantastic and has also meant I can avoid buying a car to get about for both practical and fun when my wife’s at work with the family car. My wife still occasionally thinks I should get a car when I’m too buggered from being on the bike.

I was also at an active travel conference for work some years back in Edinburgh and it was heartening to hear community groups who were organising bikes and learning to ride group for various minority groups and I’m pretty sure sustrans then didn’t have an issue with the ‘e’ side of it as it’s getting more people out of cars and as has been said the more people out of cars the less weird and safer we become as attitudes improve.

midlifecrashes
Does the miserable git moan about wrinklies on mobility scooters too?

I wonder if it’ll just be wrinklies on mobility scooters he’s concerned about….

https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-e-scooter-factsheet-2023/reported-road-casualties-great-britain-e-scooter-factsheet-2023