E-bike ‘News’ Shocka!

I’m going to go out on a limb here, they should introduce an easier way to licence/register/insure ‘vehicles’ for the last-mile delivery service, and put the onus on any company using these services.

There is a ‘low barrier’ solution already, the pedelec rules compliant e-bike, with 15.5 mph/250w assistance limitations. No licenses or insurance required, assistance is limited specifically because there’s no further licensing or training required to operate one on public roads.

If you want more speed/power/mass then the associated costs and effort should go up. We already have a workable legal and regulatory framework, it’s just not being used or enforced properly…

I’d agree the companies currently deriving profits from the permissive attitudes of the police (and some of the public) need to contribute to solutions. Whether that’s by setting their own equipment and training standards, providing equipment or looking at the employment terms they set (or don’t).

As for Surrons, you don’t need to compel their registration, but you do need to give the police/DVLA the power to penalize dealers who keep selling them to scrotes who subsequently get caught riding on the roads, which means the sales and serial numbers will need to be logged (their needs to be traceability). Sellers should set their own policies, but if they’re induced to either require registration or refuse sales to untrustworthy customers for fear of losing profits, then the industry should regulate itself (in theory at least). If they fail to do that then more draconian are applied.

They also need to be crushed by default if caught being used illegally on the roads (the bikes not the scrotes, although…), putting Surrons in police auctions, just to end up back on the streets adds to the problems.

Because your primary statement was about “easier way”. How much easier than a moped do you want?

Because the key control is on those corporate/companies that utilise this part of the Gig Economy.

The folk in the Gig Economy have to be able to operate as cheap as possible, because they’re the ones that the ‘big boys’ will take advantage of (and Joe Public quite frankly doesn’t GAS as long as they can get cheap deliveries).

So make it easier for them to be legal.

This whole thread reads pretty similar to a Daily Mail discussion about cyclists, or a New Forest discussion about MTBers.  Really folks, take a pause and think. Objectively speaking, how many actual traffic deaths are these people causing to others? Are they actually that bad?

Yes I know you hate them because dark clothes, no lights, riding on the pavement, flagrant disregard for others, never signal, going faster than some arbitrary speed that you seem acceptable l, jump red lights, have a throttle, aren’t even pedalling…..

ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY’RE Different FROM YOU And NEED TO BE BANNED

FROTH, FROTH, Froth.

ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY’RE Different FROM YOU And NEED TO BE BANNED

Nope. I am perfectly happy with mopeds/motorbikes etc and have had a moped for transport in the past.  I am semi tempted by an e-motorbike although cost/range makes a normal bike look a better choice.

The issue is when people take a motorbike and treat it like a bicycle.

So take a pause and think. That your take on peoples position is “NEED TO BE BANNED” shows you dont understand the issue.

So make it easier for them to be legal.

Once again, how?

There are two very easy legal options available currently.

Use a bicycle which includes the pedelec rules compliant e-bikes.

Use a moped.

The latter needs a bit more investment but not a lot. How much easier do you want?

I am also not sure that your argument of the corporations are taking the piss and therefore we should make it easier for them really stacks up. Perhaps enforce the laws on the corporations instead?

Know the one about “haven’t thought this through”?

Yep, its why I was replying about the non legal surron :-)

Before the surron ‘menace’  it was either nicked scramblers or pit bikes but they weren’t thought of as bicycle/e-bike whereas I think the surron is.

It just get posted to any postal address, its sold like every other white good.
I’m assuming a road legal version would want details for the V5/Registration paperwork prior and all the boring stuff.

ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY’RE Different FROM YOU And NEED TO BE BANNED

This is just bollocks. These things are not bicycles, they are motorcycles. We are fine with that, many of us ride motorcycles. We aren’t actually asking for anything extra to be banned, we would just like the existing laws to be applied. If you are caught riding a motorcycle without a licence, helmet, insurance the police will charge you appropriately and usually seize the bike. No new laws are needed.

Sorry. I should have phased it as

ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY’RE Different FROM YOU And NEED TO BE stopped at all costs.

Shared use cycle path, to just two weeks ago, I moved out to overtake a man walking his dog.  I was clocking along at 36kph.  The next thing I know there’s a massive screech of tyres and as soon as I’m passed and pulled in, off shoots the unrestricted ebike, not pedalling and going at least 20kph faster than me.

This isn’t about them being different, it’s about relative speeds making them totally unsafe to share space with pedestrians, cycles, dogs, etc.

At speeds such as this, they need to be on the road.  Heck at 36kph, you could argue I do too.

ACTUALLY BECAUSE THEY’RE Different FROM YOU And NEED TO BE stopped at all costs

More bollocks. I’m a motorcyclist, so they are the same as me. I pay vehicle tax, buy insurance, have passed a test, and wear an approved crash helmet. If I didn’t do these things I would expect the law to deal with me appropriately. What makes these people exempt from these laws?

This whole thread reads pretty similar to a Daily Mail discussion about cyclists…

Perhaps, but then those same DM frothers will probably be conflating “cyclists”, deliveroo death-trap operators and surron scrotes on e-motos, three entirely different groups who end up getting treated with equal contempt by the public for the actions of a small minority.

All that has actually changed is the available technology, the classification of vehicle types and the rules to govern them was established long before Uber eats and your local drug dealers decided they needed to propel ~100 kg of metal and meat about in public spaces using old laptop batteries…

You can have your surron, register the bastard thing, fit lights and wear a lid. Same if you want to build your own electric motorcycle take it for inspection and approval, get a licence and ride in line with the law of the land. Fail to do that (as more and more seem to be doing) and sympathy will be in short supply when the inevitable happens.

Heck at 36kph, you could argue I do too.

Yes the general guidance for shared paths is if you are going faster than 15mph or thereabouts then its time for the road.

It does my head in that you can’t have an escooter that is restricted and meets all the requirements of the hire ones

Its well weird.

In Spain you can have one but it’s got to have a Certificado VMP and we’ve even got term for them Vehículos de Movilidad Personal (VMP).

VMPs are personal mobility vehicles powered exclusively by electric motors, with a maximum design speed between 6 and 25 km/h. These vehicles can only have a seat or saddle if equipped with self-balancing systems..

The police do roadside checks with portable rolling road machines to test that it complies.

They are pretty popular.

Personally, I’d crush them. There are perfectly good electric mopeds that require insurance, come with a number plate, and have CBT licence requirements. That they are not being used by food delivery riders is flagrant law breaking in the absence of enforcement. I have no issue with law abiding E-cyclists, nor do I think compulsory insurance for such riders is necessary. But these “riders” have nothing in common with cyclists, other than the source vehicle they started from. I also have no issue with the E-scooters of the non-hiring variety, and think the law needs amendment for such a sensible personal mobility device. But food delivery is not personal mobility.

It will take a few more deaths from house fires before existent legislation is enforced properly. We can’t bring scooters into work and we can’t charge E-bikes at work. I would not have one of those delivery contraptions charging inside a building. Greater enforcement of already sensible rules (and extension to scooters) would help the law-abiding cyclists, and would-be law-abiding scooter riders.