[Closed] 'Drought' = Thames Water bowl of crock...?

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it's not all about surface or reservoir volumes.

Most of the potable water for SE England comes from groundwater, not surface supply

there is a little more to it than a a few weeks of rain making the ground look wet...

Also depends how big those reservoirs are, if I recall Thames abstract most water from rivers which is then stored temporarily in those reservoirs before use. Once the rainfall reduces to summer levels the rivers will reduce in flow and they will not be able to abstract as much as required.

And as said above a large proportion of water comes from groundwater which will not have been impacted significantly enough by the recent rainfall to replenish levels to a sufficient level.

I'm intrigued by the groundwater levels - I completed a Geology BSc many years ago but didn't touch on soil dynamics / groundwater flow unfortunately so whilst understanding the basic concepts I'm unsure of the finer details - I haven't seen any scientific analysis in the main media putting any projections forward on when the supply of groundwater increases, surely there must be prediction models on this type of thing? Wondered on the timescales for when the situation might improve?

Do you not own a bucket and a sponge?!

Most of the potable water for SE England comes from groundwater, not surface supply

Not in the case of Thames Water according to the link to their website.

bennyboy - groundwater recharge doesn't generally occur until the autumn, and then through the winter months.

You need to google "soil moisture deficit" and "evapo-transpiration". During the summer, the majority of incident rainfall is lost to either direct runn-off (to drains and rivers, or to evaporation and plant uptake and loss to atmosphere through foliage (transpiration).

The water that infiltrates into the soil can either be held within the soil pore space or can recharge theunderlying groundwater. During the summer months, the soil has a soil moisture deficit. This needs to be ssatisfied before any meaningful groundwater recharge occurs.

From discussions this winter with colleagues in eastern England, the topsoil was dusty dry just below the surface, even in December or so - so even through the winter there would have been very little aquifer recharge occuring

A useful page here...

[url= http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/interesting/SMD2000.html ]SMD[/url]

i knew somebody who used to work for southern water, they used to pump millions of gallons from Bewl water to Darwell and then get the media in and say "oh look at our half empty reservoir!"
they could fix the leaks but that costs money.

The latest (not very recent TBH) figures I've seen are about 40% for Thames and 75% for Southern - hence why I fudged and used "SE England" 😉

Groundwater is still relevant though, because abstraction limits on the rivers will be in place to protect the river environment from over exploitation - and in many places in the home counties, river levels are very, very low because groundwater levels are very low.

I haven't cleaned my bike properly since the hosepipe ban

Learn to use a bucket and brush. You'll get better results.

And you should actually listen to or read the reports. They are constantly telling you that whilst yes, it is wet right now, it's still nothing compared to what we need to replenish water tables.

A lot of SE water comes from rivers afaik, but they are in turn fed from ground water of course.

Yeah, as others have stated, it's about groundwater levels.

And using a hosepipe to clean your bike is fine.

http://www.anglianwater.co.uk/E90894F6CB2546F88BFF82408F9B81CE.aspx

rkk01 - cheers for that, will do some further reading on the points you mention. I'm keen to understand this better as the hosepipe ban is frustrating me at the moment with it having rained almost continuously since 17th April!

MrSmith - interesting!

Learn to use a bucket and brush

and use more water...

How does using a bucket and brush to wash a bike use more water than a hosepipe?

[url= http://www.ecn.ac.uk/iccuk/indicators/5.htm ]Some more here on No days of groundwater recharge[/url]

I still use it to wash my dog - would be a nightmare otherwise

"All water companies have to adhere to certain conditions laid out by the government. The government requires that under a hosepipe ban the welfare of animals must be protected.

A few examples of what is acceptable under hosepipe ban water usage restrictions:
Topping up/changing water in ponds that contain fish or other species such as frogs, newts etc.
Cleaning of animals and their living quarters
Filling drinking troughs for animals

and my bike might just be resting behind the dog ...

"Thames abstract most water from rivers which is then stored temporarily in those reservoirs before use. Once the rainfall reduces to summer levels the rivers will reduce in flow and they will not be able to abstract as much"

An Extract Thought perhaps?

i still use a hose to clean my bikes, but the water then soaks into the garden, thus replenishes the water table.

bingo.

bennyboy1 - Member
I haven't cleaned my bike properly since the hosepipe ban...

I haven't either but that due to still recovering from recent crash. But can you imagine the PR if a Water(-leak) Company tried to prosecute someone now for using a hosepipe. A Ratner moment?

[url= http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/05/02/water_vs_energy_analysis/ ]el reg and water[/url]

How does using a bucket and brush to wash a bike use more water than a hosepipe?

Your average bucket is 5litres so even if you don't fill it up that's several litres.

I normally spray mucoff on all the bits I want to clean, including scrubbing the chain, and then use a fine spray hose to clean it off - I am not going to use as much water as I would filling the bucket.

I haven't cleaned my bike properly since the hosepipe ban...

I haven't either, but thats because I'm lazy and prefer riding it!

and use more water...

A normal bucket filled to the brim holds 10 litres, which is about one minute's worth of hosepipe at mains pressure. I suspect most people use less water...

Nothing in their rules that says you can't clean your bike with a hosepipe - and once it stops raining I'm off outside to do mine 🙂

[url= http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/ ]Met Office Blog[/url]

Impact on drought

Looking at the England South area, which has been the focus of the current drought, this month is one of only three in the last two years which has seen significantly above average rainfall.

As can be seen from the chart below, the majority of other months during that time have seen below average rainfall.

[url= http://metofficenews.wordpress.com/ ]
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Thanks for all the input, some really interesting discussion points there.

In terms of hose vs bucket - I previously lived in a house where I didn't have hose access so for the 2 years that I lived there became quite proficient in getting my bike spotlessly clean using bucket & sponge method. From memory it used to take me 4-5 buckets worth to get the bike as OCD clean and gleaming as I liked. I would say that I possibly use less less water now with a hose at home - only use it sparingly to quickly blast, soak and wash muc off / bike cleaner off etc.

No hosepipe ban in this corner of Essex, according to the letter we got from our waterboard.

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I bought a Nomad washer.

really pleased with it.

i bought a Nomad

bit too much bike for me tho

4-5 buckets worth to get the bike as OCD clean and gleaming

flaming heck!

I just get the worst of the mud off and out of the chain/cassette/chainrings, GT85 on the shifters, fork juice on the stanctions, oil on the chain and that's it - 10 minutes hopefully.

Bike washed inbetween showers - woman walking past though did give me a funny luck. You'd have thought she'd have seen someone using a hosepipe before 😉

And using a hosepipe to clean your bike is fine.

I asked thames water directly, as frankly the rules are suitably vague. They said no. Are you surprised?
I think it comes under the general "Using a hosepipe for domestic recreation". I'm not really sure. But they've said no, so I'll just use my pump sprayer thingy. Which surprisingly works very well.

To quote TW website:

[i]
Temporary Use Ban Notice (Hosepipe ban) Last reviewed: 23.4.2012 - 10.55am

Section 76 Water Industry Act 1991
Thames Water Utilities Limited gives notice to all of its customers, that the potable* water it supplies throughout its entire area must not be used for the following purposes:

1.watering a ‘garden’ using a hosepipe;
2.cleaning a private motor-vehicle using a hosepipe;
3.watering plants on domestic or other non-commercial premises using a hosepipe;
4.cleaning a private leisure boat using a hosepipe;
5.filling or maintaining a domestic swimming or paddling pool (except when using hand held containers filled directly from a tap);
6.drawing water, using a hosepipe, for domestic recreational use;
7.filling or maintaining a domestic pond (excluding fish ponds) using a hosepipe;
8.filling or maintaining an ornamental fountain;
9.cleaning walls, or windows, of domestic premises using a hosepipe;
10.cleaning paths or patios using a hosepipe;
11.cleaning other artificial outdoor surfaces using a hosepipe.
[/i]

So bikes are fine, and so are all vehicles as long as they're not 'private'...

Although the reservoirs are full they only hold about 60ish days of storage.

About 70pc ish of abstraction comes from rivers but in the summer the river flows are pretty much determined by groundwater levels (base flow)

The current rain has helped matters. Given its been dry for nigh on two years I think it's good we only have a temporary use ban.

There's increasing pressure on water resources so quite an important issue coming to a head between the environment and drinking water supply and ultimately cost.

Bikes are great though 🙂

Severn Trent ought to come to my new building site as we've uncovered a never ending supply of water that's causing me shit loads of grief!!!!! Add that to a mains leak I saw three weeks ago bubbling up alongside a gulley on a main road that still hasn't been fixed makes you think they are all a waste of space and water!!!

6.drawing water, using a hosepipe, for domestic recreational use;

This should cover washing a bike I reckon.

Time to either
Get over yourselves and wipe the mud off brisk clean with 5l bucket.

Move North

Get over yourselves and wipe the mud off brisk clean with 5l bucket.

Also try some other water conservation methods like half flush toilets, shorter showers and rain water capture.

It is amazing how pathetic people sound about not being able to wash a bike

If I have a tap on the end of my hosepipe and use it to fill my bucket just to save walking backwards and forewords, is that OK?

Water butt and waterbutt pump with hosenozzle works perfectly well for me - why bother with the mains at all? I do this all year round just using the collected rainwater. Very simple and easy...

6.drawing water, using a hosepipe, for domestic recreational use;

This should cover washing a bike I reckon.

Nah.

Riding a bike is recreational.
Washing a bike is just a necessary evil resulting from the above.

However, I live up North where there's loads of the H2O ... plus, I always use a bucket and sponge cos I can't be bothered getting the hose out

If I have a tap on the end of my hosepipe and use it to fill my bucket just to save walking backwards and forewords, is that OK?

I usually just leave the tap running the whole time while I walk back and forth to refill my bucket. Saves me turning the tap on and off and on and off and on and off. This uses just as much water as a hosepipe, but wastes most of it. At least I'm adgering to the 'rules' though.

[i]Washing a bike is just a necessary evil resulting from the above.

[/i]

Nah, its a H&S issue as without washing/cleaning the bike will become unsafe 🙂