Downhill World Cup: How is it for you?

There is the argument that none of these guys do it for the money and that even if they had to pay for it all themselves, they’d probably still do it even if on a smaller scale.

Caught up with a few Youtubes and podcasts whilst travelling this week. The recurring theme is that the whole organisation seems very amateur.

Jack Reading’s Andorra video highlights how difficult the logistics for the B pit were. To get to his race run he was on a bus filled with traveling fans with his race bike, spare wheels and tools. Surely a World Cup rider can expect better, even if they are in a non elite team.

Moving the Needle podcast Loudenville review is great if you can get past Sven and Needles talking over each other. Sven points out that the lack of B zone and safety access were highlighted even before track walk, so inexcusable that became the reason Juniors was cancelled. Jack Reading’s Loudenville vlog also touches on this.

Bernard Kerr Les Gets showing approx 50 riders were allowed to get the two lifts to the top of the track but practice was closed when they got there. It is taking them an hour to get from pits to top of the track so practice has been limited.

The positives are the two French tracks have been well received apart from usual Les Gets terrible jumps.

Juniors was ace. Lots of ups and downs, plenty of downs in the floury dust too.

I won’t get to see tomorrows race until at least Sunday night, maybe even Monday.

No love for the women’s XCC, just finished? Brill result for Evie

FFS mate. In the DH thread????

I’ve watched every finals with GCN+ and most of the XCO.

No interest in the semis, and I think they’ve caused issues for some omnipresent riders not making the final cut (Ad Brayton, for one). Again, some have speculated that the higher injury rate this year is down to the increased pressure of 2 race runs. Get rid, I reckon, it’s not adding anything, is anyone even watching?

The drone shots have been very impressive this year, though I think it’d freak me out trying to ride with one buzzing around my lug holes.

Coverage has been fine. There was always going to be big shoes to fill with commentary and it has got better over the season. Gwin was good this week, and other guests make a welcome addition. The GNC+ app for Firestick is absolutely abysmal though, with weird zooming and freezing, and terrible menu nav….though that’s not really the racing. Probably will find an alternate way to watch next year, just based on how shit the app is.

I think the women are being really short changed. Only 15 riders through semi’s and 10 into finals, meaning a very limited opportunity to score UCI points. I know they are trying to get the best of the best, but if the riders on the cusp are consistently losing out of vital race environment runs, how are they supposed to improve? It’s not like there is a second tier international series to work your way up in.

Protected rider status needs to go as well. You either qualify or you don’t. I think it gives an unfair advantage to riders to be able to take risks in quali runs, knowing if it goes wrong then they’ve nothing but a few extra points to lose.

They did though. When Bruni won in Worlds in Les Gets he got £3000. The bloke in 10th got £300.

That’s just prize money. Being a professional sports person is about what you can offer sponsors rather than prize money. If the riders are viewable by more people they are able to attract more and better sponsor. Guess who I have seen more footage of from the last race? Kade, he didn’t even make the finals but seen load of footage of his tuck and t bogs.

Protected rider status needs to go as well. You either qualify or you don’t. I think it gives an unfair advantage to riders to be able to take risks in quali runs, knowing if it goes wrong then they’ve nothing but a few extra points to lose.

I agree wholeheartedly with this. I don’t understand why some riders are protected and others not even more so at the beginning of the season.

I like the semifinals not because I watch them but because it makes watching the finals more enjoyable. I don’t care who comes 20th let alone 45th or 60th. Potential sponsors will see them in qualifying and the semis and the best will get offers from the big teams if they think they are hood enough

That’s just prize money. Being a professional sports person is about what you can offer sponsors rather than prize money. If the riders are viewable by more people they are able to attract more and better sponsor. Guess who I have seen more footage of from the last race? Kade, he didn’t even make the finals but seen load of footage of his tuck and t bogs.

I can’t even recognise a sport in what you wrote.
I don’t even know where to start … is the WC now only for professional sponsored riders?
How are they even meant to get there… in terms of paying for races to win points or physically travelling there without a sponsor?

If it is no longer a sport but a business (like football, american football etc.) then surely the participants should be allowed their own sponsors not have the UCI tell them who they can and can’t have or make them sign away their sponsorship income in a bigger UCI deal (e.g. GoPro) and drop the pretence this is about being the best or fastest rider.

don’t even know where to start … is the WC now only for professional sponsored riders?

of course it is. It has been for years in reality. It’s the World Cup. The best in the world. It’s not supposed to be for everyone. The problem is that no one wants to invest in feeder series to allow juniors to prove themselves. You have the IXS series in Europe but what else.

Anyone who is sponsored is professional by definition. They are being paid in cash or in kind to represent the sponsors brand

Still too early to give a definitive view – but my impression is far too many changes across all 3 disciplines at once. Were they all needed? Not for me…..

EWS, being rebranded, and changing the format is a huge mistake…..The Pro-Stage the night before was a great idea, followed by a full day of racing.

Downhill doesn’t need semi-finals, especially on the same day as the ‘finals’. Which is something else I’d change. I’d go down the motorsport route; Qualifying, and Race; lose the term ‘finals’ – and the fastest qualifier gets to choose their starting position.

XC hasn’t had too many changes, just the addition of U23 XCC, which is good, but needs to be live. However, I’m not sure XC Marathon has really benefitted from the change, as some riders did XCO & XCM – and the coverage is still average at best.

Something somebody else raised; it’s possibly time for the disciplines to race separately, which might not be popular, but might need looking at. You don’t see XC ski-ing and Alpine ski-ing at the same venues, as they’re different sports – time for MTB to do similar?

As for the coverage, we’re getting more than ever from Eurosport – something RBTV couldn’t/wouldn’t do, but shouldn’t take away from the fact they did a good job after Freecaster/Rocky Roads. The sport wasn’t going to get bigger staying with RBTV….8-9 events over a 12 month period isn’t going to bring more sponsors/money in. ESO/Discovery have plans to increase the number of rounds, which is needed.

Something that still hasn’t changed is the lack of coverage from the non-MTB cycling media; it’s still treated abysmally, just look at Cycling News as an example.

Protected rider status is there solely for the benefit of the big teams who (I expect) fund the majority of the sport. It guarantees maximum media exposure for their riders. This supplements the introduction of semi finals again increasing exposure – but is probably only tolerated by the big teams because of rider protection.

I can’t see it changing until the riders follow through with last year’s flirt with unionisimg.

You don’t see XC ski-ing and Alpine ski-ing at the same venues, as they’re different sports – time for MTB to do similar?

This is one aspect that benefits smaller teams. It allows.for.a.much smaller support crew to service riders.in 2 or 3 disciplines. It also makes organisation & coverage cheaper because you can use the same safety team, marshalls, camera crews across the disciplines.

I also like it because I can watch MoiMoi & Ed Bull screaming at b practice to go ham.

of course it is. It has been for years in reality. It’s the World Cup. The best in the world. It’s not supposed to be for everyone.

That answers the second part to some extent.
“How are they even meant to get there… in terms of paying for races to win points or physically travelling there without a sponsor?”

The problem is that no one wants to invest in feeder series to allow juniors to prove themselves. You have the IXS series in Europe but what else.

I think you need to keep taking that backwards all the way to grass roots… no-one who isn’t sponsored can even really afford to go through the ranks… and its not then the “best of the best” but the most charismatic or attractive and most willing to lie for their sponsors.

Anyone who is sponsored is professional by definition. They are being paid in cash or in kind to represent the sponsors brand

Ultimately by that definition getting 10% off some new grips etc. and I’m being a bit extreme but to illustrate that’s not going to pay for a BC event entry, let alone travel and stuff. “We’ll give you a great deal on a frame” etc. isn’t really much better.

An American but
https://www.vitalmtb.com/features/cost-racing-world-cup-downhill-europe-american-privateer

Kamakazie

Protected rider status is there solely for the benefit of the big teams who (I expect) fund the majority of the sport.

Fund what though? It’s obviously not the prize money…

Pinkbike

One of the big rumours going into the off-season about the changes coming to World Cups next year was the potential increase of team fees to $20,000. With the latest round of the information from the UCI this has turned out to be pretty accurate. Following the announcement of Enduro reaching World Cup status and the rule changes for downhill next year, it looks like the rumour of team fees rising are true.

While the headline-grabbing figure of €23,000 will only be for Elite MTB Teams competing in all three formats, the annual registration fees have risen for every type of team. An Elite Team riding in one format will see an increase from €3,500 in 2022 to €11,000 next year, while a two-format team increases from €6,000 to €18,000.

The price rises for next year have not just affected the Elite Teams as the MTB Team fees have also risen with double the cost compared to 2022.

The prize money for race results has not changed. XC and DH Elite wins remain at €3,750. Enduro has now been added to the prize money chart, with an Elite win netting €1,000. There is a parity for the overall wins between XC, XCC, DH and Enduro.

Then you have event sponsors .. payment from a resort for using it in summer etc. etc. and payment from the media/events company and you just need some marshals and trail builders to work for free or next to free.

A lot of people paying in…. and practically sod all coming out…

Managed to avoid the results today as I was out.

Just sat down to watch the racing.

Navigated to Discovery+ on my Sky box.

Found the race.

Pressed play.

It started right from the point the last male racer crossed the line with the top 3 riders shown on screen.

Utterly useless shower of *****

App gives me two options, one to watch live and the other to watch from start. Maybe you just pressed the wrong button?

The event finished hours before so there was no live option

clubby
App gives me two options, one to watch live and the other to watch from start. Maybe you just pressed the wrong button?

Issues with that for me though today.

Went to the app on my tablet. Clicked Watch From Start as I was a bit late to the party, scrubbed through to the bit I wanted and then tried to cast to TV. Did this fine but always switched to live rather than where I tried to watch from. Ended up watching on my laptop instead before the result was spoiled…

Also, installed the GCN+ app on my TV but it just doesn’t work. Launches fine but then the d-pad controls to select what you want to watch or navigate menus simply don’t work.

On the other hand, I do think the Discovery coverage is (slowly) improving. Better commentary team and it would be fairly sweet. Warner and Gwin as the dream team? Much as I love Cedric’s enthusiasm he’s not very analytical.

Today’s racing was also great I thought, and the crowd reaction at the winning run was something to behold!

And the above means I don’t feel I’m missing out by not wanting to watch this year’s coverage.

Seems I picked the right subscription, Discovery Plus has been fine for me with a Firestick plugged into my TV 👍

I miss Warner, CG tries to bring the enthusiasm, Rick tries to bring the knowledge but collectively they’re not a patch on RW and that’s without Elliot and Tracy’s considerable input.

The Semi format… I liked the idea more racing is more, but it’s too much, more on that later.

the drones, camera angles etc have been great, RB seemed to pick their spots for every venue and stuck to them, Disco have approved race to race and the drones are amazing.

the Discovery+ app is somehow, and I didn’t think this was possible, but much worse than RBs. Yesterday I sat down to watch the finals, the only option was a 6hr video of all the semis and the finals in one hit, that or wait for the Eurosport highlights which are shit. Every race offers a different playback option, but 6 hours of trying to track back and forth to find the bits you want… seems pointlessly awkward especially now I’m paying for it. I can’t devote 6hrs to anything.

If I were King I’d tell them to roll back on their bullshit that Warner “was under contract” because he wasn’t, drop the semis because it’s pointless, but keep the cameras and drones.

I used to watch every race on RedBullTV. It had the best vibe and I was genuinely glued to it.

I now dont watch any races and ride my bike instead. This is a really good thing to have come out of the DH mess for me. I used to actively avoid arranging rides on a WC DH day. Now I actively arrange a ride on a WC DH day.

I don’t pay for any TV package so I can only watch on dodgystream.com which never works, the results are spoilered by UCI on purpose within seconds of a result, the highlights are shit, the commentary is terrible, semis are pointless and the schedule is a joke.

WynTV, Fox Dialed, VitalRaw and BK LSD are the only things keeping DH alive.

As Jordi says – (should have) changed one thing at a time and see if it works…

 

cynical hat on, do you think discovery, or whoever, are paying for this market research?

the commentary is terrible, semis are pointless and the schedule is a joke.

But you don’t watch it, so how would you know? You know, if you’d paid for it and subscribed then your complaints would be valid, but as it is, GTFO.

Well, Wyn did his usual post-race Wyn TV episode using a tyre as the mic – with a “F*ck Semis” sticker front and centre.

But, besides punishing individuals on the sly and indulging in all the usual divide and conquer, the UCI, Chris Ball and his mob, Discovery etc will not take a jot of notice. They don’t have to. MTB is a sideline for them, DH even more so. The brands with sway (Spesh, Trek) can easily be manipulated via the road cycling side to silence their DH riders.

If you have something good, keep the UCI away.

But, besides punishing individuals on the sly and indulging in all the usual divide and conquer, the UCI, Chris Ball and his mob, Discovery etc will not take a jot of notice. They don’t have to. MTB is a sideline for them, DH even more so. The brands with sway (Spesh, Trek) can easily be manipulated via the road cycling side to silence their DH rider

It’ll be interesting to see next season if anything in terms of format changes… whether the Semi rule is change, whether the format changes at all… they don’t have to, i agree… but it’d be slightly foolish not to listen/read, especially the Pro riders opinions. Maybe going back to the Union/Reps is the way forward, i’m not really sure how that faded away after it looked like it was growing some legs.

The event finished hours before so there was no live option

Sorry, I thought you’d came in part way through.

Not been able to watch every race, but it does seem to be improving. Addition of current racer to commentary team has been good. Camera work definitely improving, but could do without cutting away mid run to Josh for a piece about nothing. Can we please stop morning about losing Rob though? If you’ve read the Singletrack interview, it was his choice to stay with RB. If you want to moan, direct it to him, not Discovery.

Not problem with feed either. Sky app and website both fine, as was watching it on my mobile on my lunch break on Saturday.

Can’t say I’ve an answer to the schedule changes though. Can’t show more of each run without having bigger gaps. Can’t have bigger gaps without fewer riders.  Then it’s a question of how you did that. Don’t want semis then it’s a case of a brutal qualifying cut. At least with the semis, the mid pack riders get a chance at some tv time for their sponsors. Could have an A and B final. Top 20 in quali into main final, with 20-50 in quali in a B final for the rest of the points in the morning. Would give time to show full finals runs.  Still think they need to get rid of protected riders but if they must have them, then if they have an incident then they can be allowed into B finals.

I’ve paid for Discovery to watch it but often can’t watch it live. I could only find highlights yesterday, very annoying. I’ve emailed them to as why, maybe it was just me that was being daft but I tried the search funtion.

I’m watching the XCO this morning… I watched the DH men/women last night, both full progs.. i didn’t use search, i went through Sports > All Sports > Mountain biking. You then had the Eurosport version as well as the Discovery version.

Maybe going back to the Union/Reps is the way forward, i’m not really sure how that faded away after it looked like it was growing some legs.

To my jaded eye:

Bruni and Iles seemed to be doing a fair bit to front the riders as a collective. They both ride for Specialized. Spesh are heavily involved on the road side. The UCI had a word.

Semis can’t be dumped if Discovery want to honour the concept of a (sort of) competitive run being free to air. So, I reckon they’ll say OK, but everything goes behind the paywall.

Not been able to watch every race, but it does seem to be improving. Addition of current racer to commentary team has been good

Been a bit hit n miss imo. Gwin is great in the booth, Charlie Hatton was pretty poor. Not his fault, it’s not his job, but the likes of Discovery/Eurosport know fine well that you can’t just grab the nearest injured racer and expect them to suddenly be really good on a live broadcast. Rick was doing a good job of trying to get info out of him, but it just wasn’t happening compared to the previous week.

But you don’t watch it, so how would you know? You know, if you’d paid for it and subscribed then your complaints would be valid, but as it is, GTFO.

You ok mate? Did you read the title of the thread?

Watched most of it this time. Some live, some later. Plenty of ‘tech issue’ drop outs and refreshing faff. But I stuck with it and the DH was good, not going to grumble about commentary as I was just happy to actually see it. XC good too, and as ever like hearing Bart on commentary. But, and it’s a big but, the tech faff is wearing. This is now using the smart tv browser to stream from GCN+. No problems with any other streaming, just GCN+ seems particularly bad and goes from a good picture to the ‘tech problem’ screen. It’s not like the picture is going bad, it just cuts straight to ‘tech problem’ and you have to start the stream again. About 5-10 times per live race.

If anyone would really like Tracey back in the commentary booth, may I suggest watching the previous two women’s races with Pompon on the mic.

Semis can’t be dumped if Discovery want to honour the concept of a (sort of) competitive run being free to air. So, I reckon they’ll say OK, but everything goes behind the paywall.

In my dream scenario, semis would be replaced by a last chance qualifier like we see in supercross. Top 45 (or whatever) from qualifying go straight to finals. Then next 20 qualifiers plus any protected riders do a run for the final 5 finals spots. It won’t happen like that because they will never introduce something that disadvantages protected riders but would make that a far more exciting semi final.

I watched the “semis” and the highlight reel on Saturday afternoon I have to say that it’s getting better.  The coverage at least. If they can sort out the semis and the money for the riders side of things I’d consider subs next year. It helps that the riding is awesome.

Separation would be great imho – i have next to no interest in the XC side so am constantly frustrated that DH takes 2nd place to it in the schedule.  I know XCO is an Olympic event but it’s not the “blue riband” by any stretch. DH should race on the Sunday.

This is now using the smart tv browser to stream from GCN+. No problems with any other streaming, just GCN+ seems particularly bad and goes from a good picture to the ‘tech problem’ screen. It’s not like the picture is going bad, it just cuts straight to ‘tech problem’ and you have to start the stream again. About 5-10 times per live race.

I’ve been using GCN+ for years now across 4 or 5 different devices (lots of Spring Classis, Grand Tours, etc before now watching the MTB stuff) – never had an issue like that. OTOH never tried to use a TV browser to watch as, in my experience, the built in browsers are always poor (I appreciate that you’re able to stream other stuff without issue)

Separation would be great imho – i have next to no interest in the XC side so am constantly frustrated that DH takes 2nd place to it in the schedule. I know XCO is an Olympic event but it’s not the “blue riband” by any stretch. DH should race on the Sunday.

I mentioned this in a separate thread – I see no value to anyone other than organisers in these World Cup festivals they’re pushing. The message has been that they think this is a way to grow the sport but I think that is an incorrect assumption.

It would be interesting to know what percentage of spectators (in person and online) watch both XC and DH. None of my mates that follow DH have any interest in XC, and it seemed to be that way for the majority at World Cups I’ve been to in person. Standalone WC DHs are definitely not lesser events because of lack of XC.

I would occasionally watch the XC if I was home when it was on, but the roadies coming in and winning with minimal prep has really devalued the world cups for me. Maybe the growth there is aligning XC with road to maximise the crossover of both riders and fans, then allow gravity events to be their own thing, potentially alongside something like slopestyle ala Crankworx.

This is one aspect that benefits smaller teams. It allows.for.a.much smaller support crew to service riders.in 2 or 3 disciplines.

Are there any examples of this? Some DH/enduro crossover but the events have been arranged in a way that prevents riders doing both. I don’t know of any combined DH and XC teams?