Downhill World Cup: How is it for you?

We’re just past halfway through this year’s brave new world of Downhill World Cup racing. How has it been for you?

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By ben_haworth

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Downhill World Cup: How is it for you?

i don’t care as much as some about the commentary, i mostly ignore it…. but it’s far from as bad as PB would make you think.

Coverage this weekend was excellent… although obviously baffling about the cancellation which seems to have been against the riders wishes. But the footage was good, angles good… even amount of the runs shown was good.

Tbh, I have mostly given up watching it. It’s a tech faff, compared to the old Redbull app, so that immediately turns me off as I have no patience for techy things not working properly. We have to run GCN+ on a laptop and cast to the tele. Didn’t watch the last 2 world cups so time to cancel the GCN+ sub.

Don’t get me wrong, I am a fan, and love watching bike races in person (worlds were great in Scotland!), but faff = me out.

I will just read the race reports on pinkbike and be done with it I think.

<p>Stopped watching really for cost reasons. Will try and catch up but the new race format quailes/semi final/ final is daft. Qualification then a final with more riders please. Effectively doing 2 finals must be a nightmare for the riders. it also cuts the wildcard factor out of the finals</p>

I quite like rick and cg commentating. Gwin was a good addition at the weekend.
The riders unable to show their own race runs sucks hard.
Regardless I’m not paying and will watch the highlights and pirate streams.
Bk, moimoi, edbull media, dialled, wyntv plus others provide excellent behind the scenes footage and insights that keeps the stoke high.
Ews or whatever it’s called now, can’t say I’m interested.

+1 for sack off semis.

Also doesn’t feel right that Gee was able to just rock up and ride at Andorra but Brayton was unable to despite making it into every semi up to that point.

How can the TV Coverage be a positive when you have to bloody pay for it?? As a direct comparison to last season, when it was free via the Red Bull TV app and the commentary was so much better… well, it’s been dismal. Eurosport’s (which I believe is already a PAID sub) schedule often had Downhill scheduled and you put the telly on only to find there was car racing or some such shite on. This weekend the women’s race was on live, as scheduled, great, but they don’t show the men’s live, like as a ah you gotta pay now. **** shite.

My only real gripe is Semi finals. It’s not working for me, don’t see the point of it. I think I watched a couple in the first few races to see if it would throw up some curve balls, but it didn’t really. Qualis and Finals, it’s worked fine since forever, don’t mess about with it.

I like Ric and Cedric, they’re getting into their stride, I think compare them with Rob when they done a few seasons, I liked Aaron and PonPom getting a slot this race, that was cool.

The coverage seems way better, much more solid, the drones (especially in the XC races) is pretty cool, that I can watch the Juniors is also ace, I get twice the racing than before and its great to see the kids so that when they get to Elite we already know who they are like Goldstone and Williams

There was talk of the riders having more say in things, that seems to have not come about, I think we may have had a different outcome to the cancellation otherwise. Having said that, it did look pretty bad conditions, I’m not sure the racing would’ve been up to much

Can someone explain why some riders are protected, and how this is fair in the new format.   How is coulange not protected but alonso is? – how on earth is this worked out?

Non protected riders have to put everything into it in the semis in order to qualify. Protected riders only have to break the beam and can saunter down. Therefore non protected riders have to do 2 full on runs on the same day, protected riders only have to do 1.

i dont have GCN+, so rely on youtube for the highlights.

I popped on yesterday afternoon, watched the womens final, which had no commentary and whilst i cant stand CG constantly shouting ‘look at him/her go!!’ and adding little else, i would still prefer that over nothing.

finished that vid, went back to my home screen to see a video of the winning mens run, with the winner and name in full view. So there was a bit of an anti climax. Later i watched the GMBN mens final version, which was good to watch. Arron Gwin was good to listen to, even tho being the highlights you only got half of some sentences.

But ultimately, i used to love watching the DH when on Redbull, but Discovery and the format change (to semi finals etc) has really sucked the life out of it for me. Which is pretty gutting.

I still watch all the free stuff. There’s almost too much of it to get through so you can pick and choose who you follow.

They’ve definitely ruined the race day intensity with the semi-finals. I’ve watched almost every single race for probably 10 years and now I can’t be bothered to spend the whole day trying to follow the racing. I’ll try to catch the semi’s but I’ve been fine just missing the final and checking the results later. I’ve got a 2 year old to entertain so while in the past I’d hide away with the laptop for a couple of hours, now I just go out and do something else.

They’re definitely trying to make it harder for riders to actually make it to a final. You’ll end up with something like Gladiators with the same group of people battling it out every week. We’ve been able to watch so many young guns come through the ranks over a period of years and that’s going to disappear. People say the World Cup should only be for the best of the best but you’re taking away opportunities for people to practice at that level and get the experience. Hardly anywhere in the world has a national series good enough to be a feeder series for the WC. People dedicated all their efforts and expenses on the WC because that’s the only way to learn how to race WC’s.

You’re not going to get young privateers and juniors travelling the world just to have races cancelled at the drop of a hat. All the points you earn in quali’s and semi’s are worthless if you can’t finish top 30.

This weekend they should have scrapped elite finals and had the junior race on Sunday morning.

I don’t know…this season just feels like a bit of a botched experiment. They changed too many things at once and now it’ll take an off season overhaul to get good vibes back.

I feel like a big fragmentation is coming and we’re going to lose a lot of long standing characters and miss out on lots of future stories.

Or some big cheese at Warner Bros/Discovery will see it as a failure and drop it and we’ll be back where we were.

No problem watching it. Most of my sport watching requires subscriptions so I’m not incurring any extra cost.
Comms fine. some cutaways too to explain things with Josh Carlson which is good for the casual viewer.

I’d bin off the semis and try to reduce the number of people entering and repeatedly failing to qualify so we can get more races. 40 racers and 16 events?

Also the calendar being spread out in the northern hemisphere is going to cause issues with the weather. Mont St Anne may be interesting.

Enduro seems to have become a side show.

Or some big cheese at Warner Bros/Discovery will see it as a failure and drop it and we’ll be back where we were.

That’s a very optimistic view. I doubt RB are sitting on their old MTB budget just in case. If Discovery were to disappear* off I feel there could be a tricky year or 2 ahead.

Unfortuantely I think Cedric is now as good as he’s going to get. He’s done plenty of commentary stuff over the years and never been great. Hopefully there are discussions ongoing to get Minnaar involved after he finishes. Gwin would be a good option of course, but he’s just passing the time before he’s racing again

*which I don’t believe they will

i just watch wyn TV and look at teh results.

seen a couple of ‘highlights’ vids and sacked that off a a waste of my life.

used to watch either the race or teh re-run on RBTV if i could avoid a spoiler.

Bin the semi finals. Haven’t watched them once this season and don’t see the point.

I don’t watch the semi’s, too busy for that.

Commentary better with Gwin.

Sick of opening Facebook and seeing the result advertised by Discovery before I get chance to watch the race.

I do the same as VanHalen, although I have watched a bit of the Semi Finals when at home and just doing chores. The coverage is good but not up to the Red Bull standard. With the split format it’s just not worth my time or money to watch the whole race run show, takes up too much of my free time now it’s split. WCDH has now gone the same way as my F1 viewing: follow the stories, catch the highlights if it was an exciting one but losing me as a fan.

Short version – they’ve taken a free product, and put it behind a paywall without improving it. Therefore as a customer I am unhappy.

Long version:
Commentary undoubtedly worse, which takes away from any improved production. Gwin was a positive addition this week so hopefully they learn from that and look to phase out Cedric as the expert.

Live feed lacks any interesting insights – they’ve added a heart rate monitor (which means nothing) but removed the virtual straight, key sector leader board, and comparison of where time was made/lost.

It really frustrates me that we see riders coming into shot 10+ seconds behind and the commentators have no idea why. Surely there’s enough people on site that commentators can be told someone crashed off camera?

Pre race build up is non existant. Post race highlight show is awful. I’d love to see some real course analysis (think Cathro but less childish), highlights of practice and proper post race debrief.

I can’t get on board with semis format but I do see the value in using that to allow for a smaller final – I’m not sure what the solution is but there must be something better than what we currently have. Frustrated that this week they opted to cancel the Junior final but still had time in the schedule for a semi final.

Dislike them trying to crowbar enduro and DH into the same event. I think DH, enduro, and XC all need to be standalone races so we’re not compromising one to accommodate another.

Short version – they’ve taken a free product, and put it behind a paywall without improving it. Therefore as a customer I am unhappy.

But they had to ? To increase income into the sport the only way is to increase advertising ?

When it was free, were you actually customer ? if there’s no charge you can’t be a customer can you ? 🙂

Ok – consumer, not a customer. Happy? But actually, I was a customer, because I was a more engaged fan so I had been to watch an EWS, multiple world cups and a world champs in person.

But they had to ? To increase income into the sport the only way is to increase advertising ?

They didn’t have to do anything. But they did, and I understand why, so it is disappointing this didn’t bring any improvements to the product. I think it’s a fair assumption to say that nothing they have done so far has been positive enough to be increasing income.

I’m not in a position to subscribe to any more things so currently won’t/can’t pay for the live racing.

I love watching it but much preferred the Redbull setup and so now I’ll just watch any highlights.

For me, the build up, line analysis, that kind of thing is the most interesting and that’s on all the YouTubers channels so that’s where I tend to go.

Don’t mind Rick and Cedric. Warner was good for the stoke but there’s nothing wrong with those two I don’t think.
I like the guest commentator idea and I think it would be good if they could carry that through for each round. Good thing for injured riders to get involved with.

I always ask the question of thise saying they preferred the free Red Bull setup:

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

They didn’t do it for altruism.

I’m really enjoying it. Would it be better with Rob still commenting? Yes but that’s his choice not to do it, so move on.

I much prefer the new format as it makes the men’s in particular much more watchable seeing fewer riders, I have no interest in who come outside the top10 really so watching the top 30 is more than enough riders. It’s not as if those in the 30-60 range got much air time anyway.

The app is easy to use although I do wish I didn’t have to select the commentary language every time.

They didn’t have to do anything.

They did though. When Bruni won in Worlds in Les Gets he got £3000. The bloke in 10th got £300. They have to come up with a reward system that pays riders a decent wage. The only way to do that is to get mainstream sponsors putting money in. That doesn’t promise they’ll re-inject the money into the sport… but as least it’s becomes vaguely possible.

so it is disappointing this didn’t bring any improvements to the product

They’ve had 5 races, I don’t think you can sensibly say that. The people actually involved in running the thing have all had tonnes of experience, it’s not some junior vice president of entertainment from Malibu who’s last project was the Mouseketeers. I think you probs have to give them 2-3 seasons before calling it.

When it was free I’d sit down and watch, and my son would come and watch the top ten riders male and female. I have him every other weekend, when I’m child free I’m out riding and the weekends race to child weekends means I’m unlikely to pay unless the coverage is awesome.  For me, right there, is what’s wrong with putting niche sports behind paywalls, young rippers can’t watch it.

A similar thing happened to Cricket after the Ashes, Channel 4 had an awesome summer of coverage in 2005, everyone got involved, now it’s just another Sky Sports channel, would love to know what happened to kids participation in the last 20years… I know cricket is much bigger than DH 😀

The social feeds kill the urge to watch on catch up which I’d do when RB were in charge. I’m not even sure when and how to watch catch up.

I’ve always wanted to take part in an activity as opposed to watch, in my head I’m supporting the sport by spending way more on kit than I would for the subscription.

Semi finals seem to add nothing apart from increase the risk to the athletes.

The EDR has been a massive disappointment, coverage has been rubbish, again Instagram updates for everything ruin the experience of watching highlights etc.

The coverage needs to improve significantly, the way Rob Warner was treated feels off. What I have watched isn’t as good as last years coverage as people have already pointed out. Why would I pay for a crap product?

I was hoping Enduro coverage would be better this season and the DH elevated in terms of previous year’s. However, nothing has improved as far as I can tell. I think they’ve bitten off too much and dropped the ball.

Misspent Summer emails have been how I’ve kept abreast of the season so far, it’s like a virtual Dirt but better! So that’s the only positive so far, looking forward to their yearbooks again.

Whoa, this obviously has been playing on my mind, hadn’t meant to type so much!

The coverage needs to improve significantly, the way Rob Warner was treated feels off.

He stayed with his former employer, he wasn’t kicked out.

The EDR situation is very odd, especially given that Chris Ball is behind a lot of what’s going on. Gives the feeling that Discovery aren’t interested but had to take it as part of the deal

I had thought Ric and Cedric were improving, but Gwin showed what someone who is genuinely knowledgeable can bring. His explanations of the track conditions and riding brought some insight to the commentary that I don’t recall even in the redbull days, and made by comparison Ric and Cedric sound like overexcited schoolgirls incapable of normal speech. I hope he returns again.

the way Rob Warner was treated feels off.

I think he still works for Red Bull doing other stuff doesn’t he?

The EDR has been a massive disappointment

I think so as well, Was it Leogang when everything was at the same venue, and EDR pits was 1/2 km down the road in a scruffy wee car park, and even the support teams (like Fox) were a bit embarrassed by the obvious “ginger cousin”  treatment?

@weeksy you raise good questions re: money.

I’d say that being a proper televised sport will improve the odds of teams & athletes selling sponsorships to non-bike brands. Most professional sports (inc. road cycling) see teams and athletes make the lions share of their money from sponsorship and endorsements, rather than prize money.

It might be we need more agents/commercial teams within team structures to help make that happen 🤔

He stayed with his former employer, he wasn’t kicked out.

This is true, but I think Rob was interested in a role, Chris Ball made a comment on Downtime podcast that Rob took exception to on social media. We’ve not got the full story, but it sounds like there could have been a way to make it happen and for whatever reason it didn’t.

What happened to that dodgy chat show with Rob, Emily Batty and (can’t remember who) ? Was there more than one eposide?

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

If that’s a genuine question, same as I ever have, probably about £3 a year.

Most professional sports (inc. road cycling) see teams and athletes make the lions share of their money from sponsorship and endorsements, rather than prize money.

I hear you 100%… but don’t forget, the personal sponsors they bring in is also because of increased exposure. Watching yesterday on Discovery they had 4-5 sets of adverts in the ladies Elite show, that’s GOT to bring in more money to the game, which in turn brings in more viewers.
Even though people say about ‘paywall’ a LOT of people get to see DH now through Eurosport and Discovery which comes as part of an overall package, they wouldn’t have seen it or found it via Redbull TV as that doesn’t exist to most… So yes it’s behind a paywall, but it’s also more open to the general public at the same time.

The biggest difference with DH and MTB is that currently 99% (made up figure of course) of personal sponsors are bike based, look at any ridr jersey with sponsors, they’re all MTB companies.. Think of MotoGP, WSB, even Speedway and MX racing, then also think F1, touring cars, they’re not… they’re ‘companies’ if DH just sits within the cycling niche it can only ever reach cycling people and sponsors…. they need mainstream companies putting money into riders…

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

Only time I’ve drank red bull is back in the late 90’s with vodka, don’t drink fizzy juice apart from the odd can of Vocation beer

agree with companies sponsoring riders. If you want more outside sponsors you need more coverage. current format with 8 per year is a poor return. bit of a catch 22 though as you need the sponsors to increase the coverage in the first place

I always ask the question of thise saying they preferred the free Red Bull setup:

How much per year did you spend on cans of Red Bull as a result of them marketing to you through MTB?

They didn’t do it for altruism.

About the same as I spend on sofas from DFS and tights from Pretty Polly when I’m watching ITV.

I’d not be surprised to see more non-bike team/athlete sponsors next year, once all view stats, proof of concept from a marketing perspective is out there.

My red bull question was 100% genuine and the answers *might* be an insight into why they didn’t fight to retain it. After all, a marketing endeavour can only be tolerated so long if it’s not generating a return 🤷‍♂️

once all view stats, proof of concept from a marketing perspective is out there

RB never released viewing figures for livestreams and Discovery haven’t released anything so far. Don’t think there’s been an indication that they’re planning to (Pinkbike did a viewing figures article recently)

What happened to that dodgy chat show with Rob, Emily Batty and (can’t remember who) ? Was there more than one eposide?

Episode 2 came out last week.

I had to look up how Red Bull makes its money! I assumed these days they were a media company that makes money through advertising and sold a few cans off the back of it, not too far removed from Rich Energy. I’ve drunk a similar number of both brands in the last few years. I physically see more people drinking Monster.

But when 61+ billion cans have been sold, at a big mark-up, that will generate a few $$$

 

Maybe we should petition Lucozade to cover DH and get Daley Thompson on the mic.