Double dip recession

Gross oversimplification

Wow, really?!

Lolz

Excellent, then please stop. Everyone will be happier as a result.

This +++lots

I guess this is the stage in the thread where you now start playing the victim, isn’t it, TJ?

Not at all Zokes.

This is not about me – this is about the disaster the tories are making of the country and a little vicarious amusement watching the mental gymnastics of the tories supporters trying to defend it.

So all you tory supporters – the current tory policies are clearly not working – so how are we going to get out of this mess?

The answer TJ is looking for is: hold a general election and get the Labour Party in. That Milliband chap looks a down-to-earth man of the people. Then we can all just go back to work and look forward to the unicorns and rainbows that await us in our 4-bedroom double garage new builds that only cost £100k.

I wasn’t loading up on credit cards, maxing my mortgage and getting a car on HP as many many people seemed to be doing. The very type of things that caused the whole mess. I think most of us could see (certainly by 2007) that this couldn’t be sustained.

The mess wasn’t simply caused by borrowers maxing out credit cards or mortgages. You may be a minority but like it or not but since the 70s we have been a nation of buy now pay later. There is always risk involved with credit but those who have credit actually give more back into the economy than those that don’t. It’s what the banks have then done with that increased revenue that caused best part of the issue.

Nothing is sustainable for sure, something was bound to give, like a downturn in the housing market, but the impact of the global financial crisis compounded any wobble to tipping point and this can’t be attributed to any one single country or government. The question is surely no longer about what cause it but who is going to sort it.

What Cameron et al are doing seems to be pushing the country in the wrong direction when other countries seem to be clawing their way out of it.

I think most of us can see this.

Such arguments are ultimately a waste of time as the lack of proof that the opposition view would work better means it’s all just pointless foghorning. If the route out was so predictable and obvious no government would take an unpopular route, they do afterall all employ people with significantly more skills in that field than STW – all would have taken the same stance and whichever got in power would have implemented it. As said earlier in the thread, either route provides possibly ways out and both rely heavily on external factors as well as internal. What’s more, the fluctuations we are seeing here are tiny in comparison with historic fluctuations in times of plenty. I’m sure if this had happened on labours watch the tory side would all be jumping up and down wringing hands too. This is why I find politics a bit depressing and stupid.

This is not about me

Oh, really?

TandemJeremy – Member
S’ok Wrecker – I might just have to mock a few rabid tories tho.

TandemJeremy – Member
It will amuse me watchingthe usual tory apologists on here trying to spin this thio.

Could’ve fooled me 🙄

TandemJeremy – Member
Not at all Zokes.

This is not about me – this is about the disaster the tories are making of the country and a little vicarious amusement watching the mental gymnastics of the tories supporters trying to defend it.

So all you tory supporters – the current tory policies are clearly not working – so how are we going to get out of this mess?

I imagine that this is what reading the Daily Mail is like.

Such arguments are ultimately a waste of time as the lack of proof that the opposition view would work better means it’s all just pointless foghorning

Absolutely true, but…

they do afterall all employ people with significantly more skills in that field than STW

on a similar note. I would look up Gideon’s experience and skills with economics.

Surely Vince cable should would have been a better candidate for chancellor but then again he wasn’t in the Bullingdon Club with Cameron was he?

So all you tory supporters – the current tory policies are clearly not working – so how are we going to get out of this mess?

I think one viable solution would be to vote in Labour, because they clearly had no involvement in the credit crisis and all the responsisbilty can be placed at the feet of the 2008 Tory govt.
Another alternative could be to vote for the Greens, they would appear to be more than willing to pump money into the economy on a monthly basis 🙄

It’s what the banks have then done with that increased revenue that caused best part of the issue.

Which was?
You do know that the global financial crisis was caused in the main by irresponsible lending/credit don’t you? Subprime, predatory lending, easy credit. The downturn in the housing market was a product of the crisis, not a cause.

What Cameron et al are doing seems to be pushing the country in the wrong direction when other countries seem to be clawing their way out of it.

I think most of us can see this.
I don’t necessarily agree (and neither do a lot of people on this thread). We were hit harder than most and many are still struggling a lot more than we (Italy, Spain, Greece, Ireland, France etc etc). I don’t think there’s an easy solution. Whoever is in charge is going to have a bloody hard job, and nobody can say that spending will work because nobody knows

on a similar note. I would look up Gideon’s experience and skills with economics.

And what of Ed Balls’?

Well said coffeeking. It’s amazing how good any party sounds when in opposition, all they can do is criticise and say how well they would do if they were in power. What we really need is somebody with the balls (no pun intended, certainly not Ed) to take a long term view rather than focussing on the next election.

Short termism gets us nowhere but that’s all politicians of any ilk can offer. Perhaps if politicians could be held accountable for their actions we’d all be in a better place, I’d like to think it might force them to think over a longer term.

I don’t think I’ve yet actually met an intelligent Labour supporter.

In all seriousness.

“We had it gud undah labah, ya knaow, an d now the evil tories is wat dunnit ya knaow”

It’s because Labour had the almighty credit card out, rather.

Is that Muwamba/God thread still going?

I bet this goes to more pages.

Religion and politics. Take your side then defend it no matter what.

Coffeeking – I would basically agree with you apart from one aspect – the tories have used the excuse of the recession to driver thru their small state ideology. Very skillful use of their powerful propaganda machine to persuade people it the only answer and then do it despite the obvious negative consequences.

Yo assume all politicians are honest in their motivations – I am certain the tories are mendacious.

Edit
for balance labour tend to be weak and incompetent these days

Yo assume all politicians are honest in their motivations – I am certain the tories are mendacious.

As opposed to simply being hypoctritical?

Economy risks were exaggerated, says Nobel prize winner

24 October 2010 Last updated at 04:09 Professor Pissarides said the chancellor should have concentrated on the weakness of the economy
The UK’s latest Nobel Prize-winning economist has said George Osborne exaggerated the risk of a debt crisis such as that which affected Greece.

Professor Christopher Pissarides said last week’s swingeing cuts package announced by the chancellor was taking “unnecessary risks” with the economy.

Mr Osborne has said drastic action was necessary to avoid a Greek-style collapse in investor confidence.

But Professor Pissarides told the Sunday Mirror the risks were “minimal”.

‘Postponing cuts’
He said: “It is important to avoid this ‘sovereign risk’. But in my view Britain is a long way from such a threat, and the chancellor has exaggerated the sovereign risks that are threatening the country.”

Professor Pissarides said the current weakness of the UK economy should have been of more concern for the chancellor.

“Unemployment is high and job vacancies few. By taking the action that the chancellor outlined in his statement, this situation might well become worse,” he said.

“These risks were not necessary at this point. He could have outlined a clear deficit-reduction plan over the next five years, postponing more of the cuts, until recovery became less fragile. The ‘sovereign risk’ would have been minimal.”

He added: “Overall, the chancellor is putting the economy through some unnecessary risks because of his fear of sovereign risk, which does not appear justified.”

Professor Pissarides

Seriously?

Great point, well made, wrecker. He may have a Nobel prize for economics but he has a silly name so what does he know?

It’s a really silly name though isn’t it? 😀

TJ – can’t dissagree with any of your comments in that last post, but I do think very few politicians are in it for anything but personal gain. It’s just easier to cover your own gain when you’re pleasing those below you short term, especially if you can leave your enemy to pick up the mess in the next term and blame it all on them (applies both ways, not just the current way).

I wonder what it would actually take for the government to admit they need a Plan B?

About a 250K private meeting with Cameron I should imagine….

Anyone want to chip in before we all lose our jobs?

It’s amazing how good any party sounds when in opposition

Ed Millibean sounds good?!! 😯

To be fair to the Tories their approach is always going to take longer to work and Labours would work bettershort term with potential for problems later. Problem is when a bit of a balanced approach is needed we get dogmatic ideal driven economic policy which is **** the whole thing up.

“So how are we going to get out of this mess?”

Probably like a large part of the “developed/western” world by suffering and enduring a long period of low, sub trend growth with largely irrelevant negative and positive blips/noise along the way (except for 24hour news and politicians of course). `Politicians of all persuasions will no doubt pretend otherwise but we have really made very little progress towards solving the massive build up of leverage among countries, financial institutions and households. Austerity – what austerity? That hasn’t even started in practice beyond tinkering and rhetoric. The western banking system is held together by band-aids and households still have too much debt. It will take a long, long time for all of this to be worked through especially since most policy instruments (both monetary and fiscal) are increasingly impotent.

Not a good time to be in the public sector, financial services, a pensioner, a school leaver, a graduate, a saver…..ok, in fact not a good time for 99% of us (or should that be 99.9%?).

Since this is an MTB forum, there is at least some good news. The recent “gap jumps” in MTB pricing will hopefully prove to be equally unsustainable.

It’s a good time to be a major Tory donor though.

Teamhurtmore – report post.

Please mods stop him he’s scaring me!!

And what of Ed Balls’?

I wasn’t suggesting we would be better managed under a Labour government. But the point is was making, if you quoted the rest rather than a convenient misrepresentation, was;

Surely Vince cable should would have been a better candidate for chancellor but then again he wasn’t in the Bullingdon Club with Cameron was he?

You’d see I was pointing out there was a perhaps a better candidate with a background and history in economics in the coalition who ‘might’ have performed better in this situation that one of Cameron’s posh mates. Of course that’s entirely speculation.

For me this is about who is fit for the job, I don’t think the current government is and, neither for that matter, is the opposition in any fit state to really make a difference. That concerns me.

Don’t even get me started on Theresa May 😀

Sorry A_A, but I started my working life in Japan and have stared a “lost decade” directly in the face. It makes GO and EB look pretty!

Actually, on the point of a Coalition. Has anyone seen that other chap, you know, the deputy prime minister.

Whatever his name is.

😀

If we put “growth” aside for a second, I’m hoping we can get the “cuts” into proportion – so, just how much of a “cut” is reasonable?

lets say “the state” is 5% bigger (real terms) than it was in 2007.

Was the country borked in 2007?

If government spending (in real terms) and staffing, and resources, and NHS facilities, were cut back to where they were in 2007 – after 10 years of Labour government, would we be significantly worse off as a country?

Or can the size of government and its associated spending only ever increase?

The problem is philosophy, we as a race believe that we can do what we like.

That the truth is irrelevant and that effective efficient management of resources is unimportant.

If we had people like branson or gates, any number of highly able individuals in charge of giving us direction the world could be a good place.

However as long as the majority of us embrace a delusional, self destructive philosophy that cannot identify useless idiocy and we keep demanding that others sort out our problems, we will all continue to be in a very precarious set of circumstances as a race!

We where always in trouble, they simply managed to hide it from us for a long time 😉

binners – Member
So who thinks we’ll see any contrition from Dave and Gideon this afternoon? Or any indication whatsoever that they even give a ****?

No. I think they’ll blame TJ.
It’s the party line.
And not too complicated for them.

He’s had more criticsm on this thread than any of the politicians that have taken this country into recession.

elliot-20, I actually agree with much of that however I didn’t conveniently misrepresent anything. Cable would never work, he’d refuse to tow the Tory line and the Tories would want to dictate economic policy. As a result, we have Gideon (yeh, I know). So, the other alternative is Balls who is as useless as Gideon.

elliott-20 – Member
Actually, on the point of a Coalition. Has anyone seen that other chap, you know, the deputy prime minister.

Whatever his name is.

i think the lib dems have learnt their lesson a bit, they were used as human shields by the torries at the start but are hiding now
also trying to figure out the forthcoming local elections which they will probably do very bad in

Oh dear god! I’ve just listened to Wallace stumble over his words through the most limp-wristed, pathetic ‘attack’ on the government yet, at PMQ’s. Its tragic!!! The ****ing ineffectual imbecile can’t even splutter a sentence properly. Will someone please please please put him out of his misery

Part of the reason the whole country is so ****ing banjaxed is because these Bullingdon ****s don’t have an opposition worthy of the name and are pursuing an economic ideology that benefits a minuscule minority – themselves and their friends – and leaves the rest of us utterly ****ed!!!

Teamhurtmore: stop writing so much sense.
Zulu eleven: same goes for you.

Here’s some light relief:

https://twitter.com/#!/OsborneDrunk

Not read much of this thread…….binners hits the nail on the head after 7 post imo.

Am i allowed to post on this thread as a non big hitter though?

Am i allowed to post on this thread as a non big hitter though?

This was the initiation. TJ and Ernie will be emailing you with your membership details shortly.