Donald! Trump!

Lord all mighty. Imagine voting Trump Leave due to the cost of living, as many some undoubtedly did, then having the effects of tariffs leaving a successful and low friction trading bloc explained then finding that it might make inflation go up again even on products not directly hit by tariffs influenced by the bloc as the price increases filter through the economy.

It’s not so very different.

perhaps Democrats could try listening to and addressing the concerns of ordinary people rather than labelling them all as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving morons.

Call me Captain Obvious but the simple solution to not being labelled as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving moron is to not be those things. It’s not the Democrats talking about building a wall to keep the Mexicans out, making discrimination against homosexuality legal and blanket-banning abortion nationwide now, is it.

To take your transphobia example there’s many people who think giving children puberty blockers/cross sex hormones/surgery and having biological men compete in womens sport is a bad idea.

And there are plenty who take their own lives as children or teenagers when they can’t get help because of these “thoughts” you hold so dear. I suppose they’re just collateral damage? Many of the luckier ones class themselves as survivors. You can “think” what you like but no-one has any right to tell other people what they can or cannot do with their bodies and to suggest otherwise is an incredibly dangerous precedence to be setting. We had one trans woman who was a popular contributor to this forum bullied off from here a couple of years back because of others’ “thoughts” that they refused to keep to themselves despite her writing a heartfelt explanation of just how much their words hurt. Who knows how many more went silently and we never knew.

The sport thing is a wholly different topic of conversation IMHO. That’s complicated enough to be a thread in its own right. It does seem to quite often be an argument favoured by the transphobe though, that and “yes but rapists in toilets.” At which point I’d refer them to my first sentence here.

You have seen Project 25, right? You do realise what you’re defending here? If not then you should go read it; if so then, well, back to my first sentence with you too.

You can “think” what you like but no-one has any right to tell other people what they can or cannot do with their bodies and to suggest otherwise is an incredibly dangerous precedence to be setting.

Yes they do and society has always worked that way. It’s just that what is acceptable changes over time. The things society doesn’t find acceptable are generally dismissed as invalid by saying they’re a result of mental illness or coercion. Suicide is currently illegal but I hope assisted dying is legalised in my lifetime. Trans people are slowly becoming more accepted by parts of society but there will always be pushback to change. It’s taken a long while for gay people to be generally accepted and it’s not yet complete,

Suicide is illegal? What are we going to do, send cadavers to jail for a couple of months, maybe release them to the crem after 18 months for good behaviour?

I think perhaps you slightly missed my point whilst agreeing with it. 🙂 I’m not saying people dictating to others what they can do with their bodies doesn’t happen. I’m saying that it’s wrong. ( @tjagain to the forum… )

Call me Captain Obvious but the simple solution to not being labelled as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving moron is to not be those things.

Amen to that. It’s got a lot less to do with wealth, prospects, ‘class’ or whatever else than people like to admit.

Voting for Trump is inexcusable. He’s a ****, and so are the people who vote for him.

Voting for Trump is inexcusable. He’s a ****, and so are the people who vote for him.

So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.

So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.

The statistics don’t lie… same as with brexit….

So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.

As with brexit the majority didn’t vote for him,  so your point is incorrect.

However those that voted for him due to agreeing with his misogynistic, racist and horrific policies are absolutely c###s

As with brexit the majority didn’t vote for him, so your point is incorrect.

My point is perfectly correct. I said “the majority of American voters”.

Ok put like that then yes clearly the majority of American voters are exactly that c###s

Is Elon going to get his money’s worth? It seems likely.

That depends if he gets put forward as the Republican’s next presidential candidate.

Mrs Slow pointed me toward’s an article in yesterday’s Guardian in response to Trump’s victory. I particularly liked the contribution of Ece Temelkuran.

Musk was born in South Africa, so he can’t run for president

Musk isn’t a possible presidential candidate, and that’s why Trump can work with him.

Musk is already richer and has far more influence at home and abroad now that Trump has won… and that’s only a small appetiser for what could come his way after January.

Trump will work for whoever can make him money. Elon is currently that person. If you can’t make him richer, you’ll get thrown under a bus. It’s all about the hustle.

yes clearly the majority of American voters are exactly that c###s

FYI  denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote is widely seen as counterproductive and a sure way of alienating voters even further.

Apart from the monumental blunder by Joe Biden of calling Trump supporters garbage, which undoubtedly helped Trump, see also the “basket of deplorables” blunder by Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney’s “47%” gaffe for similar examples.

Despite all that I expect the same mistakes to be made in the UK in 2029. After all simple explanations are so much more attractive than ones which involve rather more complex thinking and perhaps a fair bit of self criticism.

You should hear what Trump was calling people supporting Harris… didn’t do him any harm.

it’s perfectly reasonable to lay the blame at the appropriate door. it’s not 2016. the american public know what they’ve voted for. a fraud, an assaulter of women, a convict. all proven in courts of law. i’m afraid what they’ve done is wrong, and i have no issue in calling it so

it’s not 2016. the american public know what they’ve voted for

And yet in 2024 Trump increased his support right across the voter demographics, young, old, women, Muslims, black, Hispanic, etc. compared to 2016.

Is the reason for this that they have all become more racist than they previously were, or could there possibly be other explanations for this?

You should hear what Trump was calling people supporting Harris…

Go on, tell me what insults Trump leveled at Democrat voters. It is a widely accepted fact that Mitt Romney screwed up with his “47%” comment, I can’t see why a similar gaffe wouldn’t have cost Trump votes.

Edit:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/sep/18/mitt-romney-47-unsuitable-president

Insulting voters is as counterproductive for Republicans as it is for Democrats

could there possibly be other explanations for this?

of course. the fact remains they’re somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and still vote for him.

Suicide is currently illegal

Not since 1961 in the UK.

And what does that say about the Democrats? That a woman or a black or muslim person, for example, is somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and vote for him rather than Democrat?

And remember many of these people couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Trump in the two previous presidential elections.

So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.

The majority who voted are. Yes.

Sorry if that upsets people, but there it is.

Given what is known about Trump the ‘man’ – I stand by that statement. I would stand by it if he had been the Democrat candidate.

Trump’s whole schtick is basically:

“I’m an asshole, I admit it. I know there’s a bit of asshole in nearly everyone. I’m just here to tell you that it’s alright to give in to your baser instincts. Indulge the inner asshole”.

To a lesser extent Farage pulls the same trick. And people give in to it. In the UK’s case it was in a way that is not reversible in four years either.

@ernielynch

Who would you have voted for, if you were a US citizen?

Serious question.

FYI denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote is widely seen as counterproductive and a sure way of alienating voters even further.

I don’t think anyone here is denigrating voters for how they are likely to vote. Rather, we’re denigrating voters for how they voted.

Apart from the monumental blunder by Joe Biden of calling Trump supporters garbage, which undoubtedly helped Trump, see also the “basket of deplorables” blunder by Hillary Clinton and Mitt Romney’s “47%” gaffe for similar examples.

Welcome to US politics, you must be new here.

Election upon election, presidential campaigns have been founded on little more than “see that other guy over there? They’re terrible, vote for me instead or they will get in.” The one candidate in my living memory who made a big song-and-dance about not playing that game and instead campaigned on their own merits was I think Bob Dole, who suffered the worst defeat in years.

This is how the US has functioned for decades. The last time I was out there, MacDonald’s adverts on TV were little more than “yeah, Burger King, they’re shit.”

I will concede however that you are, of course, bang on the money in that the UK is far from immune here. We haven’t learned anything since 2016 and are in no position to be throwing stones across the pond.

To a lesser extent Farage pulls the same trick. And people give in to it. In the UK’s case it was in a way that is not reversible in four years either.

Plenty of people voted for our Prime Minister (BoJo), despite the obvious bollocks he was spouting, despite the philandering, and then backed him despite his literal crimes, misleading parliament, lying to the Queen, illegally Proroguing etc. We are not so different.

Sorry if that upsets people, but there it is.

I am not sure who you think it is upsetting but my point is that it is simplistic nonsense to explain an election result by declaring that the majority of US voters are ****. I am guessing what the word **** is btw.

I have little doubt that the majority of US voters are perfectly decent people and not **** at all.

I know that an alternative explanation is too challenging, especially if it involves self criticism, so dismissing voters as racists is the easiest solution.

No doubt the Tory-Reform coalition in 2029 will be explained in exactly the same way……. voters are racist ****, even though Labour won in 2024. The “all voters are racists” explanation only really works when an election result goes the wrong way.

Trump doesn’t pull any punches when going after his political opponents but I’ve never heard him say anything about the american people themselves, why would he? it’s a terrible idea if you want to win votes.

I’m sure those on the fence voters who went with Trump this time will be really keen to vote democrat next time after hearing about what a **** they are for the next few years.

So the majority of American voters are ****. Nice.

The majority who voted are. Yes.

So what have you achieved by expressing this view? What is the point of it? It doesn’t express anything worthwhile or useful in any way whatsoever.

That a woman or a black or muslim person, for example, is somehow able to look past what that **** demonstrably is, and vote for him rather than Democrat?

you’d have to ask them. i am sure there are many and various justifications.

So what have you achieved by expressing this view?

My exasperation with the march of far right wing populism in societies where the standard of living is way higher (even for those near the bottom) than in third world countries.

Will that do?

And I’ll add that in terms of living standards vs actual productivity the gap makes voting for shit like Trump, Brexit, Johnson, Wilders etc even less justifiable.

We are not so different.

It’s the Cult of Personality.

Garage keeps bobbing up to the surface like a turd that just won’t flush because he appeals to The Man On The Clapham Omnibus. Man of the people, fag in one hand and a pint of Large in the other. The ‘free are tommy’ brigade are going mob-handed outside courthouses because he’s just “saying what people are thinking.” Boris, fwah, whif-whaf, I seem to have forgotten my notes, oh look a squirrel! Well, he’s a character, isn’t he. And the orange shitgibbon’s USP is “make America great again” and because US Patriotism is so very deeply ingrained into Team America **** Yeah’s psyche, no-one stops to question what that might actually mean. I thought America was already supposed to be the greatest nation on Earth?

It has nothing to do with politics. Absolutely nothing. It’s the reason that I have more chance of growing a second willy than seeing Rees-Mogg as leader of the Tory party – even the c**ts think he’s a ****. People don’t care about facts, this is what cost us the referendum in 2016 and we still haven’t learned anything from it. The professional Pob-impersonator jizzmop famously said “we’ve had enough of experts” and was resoundly mocked for it by the Left but you know what, he was correct. An appeal to the heart will win over an appeal to the head time after time after time.

Facts don’t win elections.
Policies don’t win elections.
Charisma wins elections.

It is said that those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And, oh look.

Charisma wins elections.

That’ll explain Labour’s landslide victory then.

That’ll explain Labour’s landslide victory then.

Labour only won the last election as the conservartives went too much crazy, it wasn’t an election won on merit.

Hell, even I voted labour just to make sure the conservatives got kicked out,and I’m starting to regret it as a lib dem…

So, come on, Mr. Know it all…

If you were a US citizen, who would you have voted for?

Woww the return of Trump!

More interesting for me is to see how President-elect Trump is able to or going to dismantle the deep state.

I can see the headline “President Trump vs the Deep State” in the near future.

That’ll explain Labour’s landslide victory then.

33% vote share. They’re not popular: the Tories were unpopular.

Labour only won the last election as the conservartives went too much crazy

I think you are closer to the truth than you probably even realise matty. Yes I totally agree, it was more a case of a Tory government losing the general election than a Labour opposition winning it.

I say closer than you probably even realise because you don’t seem to have extrapolated that obvious fact to the US Presidential election.

The most striking aspect of the US presidential election for me is that the Biden/Harris administration lost it, not that Trump won it.

And it is particularly striking imo because they lost it against an arsehole who talks mostly  complete shite. How badly did American voters want to get rid of the Democrats, which they had elected only 4 years previously, that they were prepared to give Trump a second chance?

There are glaringly obvious similar lessons to be learnt on both sides of the Atlantic.

Edit : To be fair this isn’t a new phenomena. It has always been the case, certainly in UK politics, that governments lose general elections rather than oppositions winning them. Voters generally know what they are voting against even if they can’t be sure what they are voting for.

My exasperation with the march of far right wing populism in societies where the standard of living is way higher (even for those near the bottom) than in third world countries.

I am struggling to see your argument here. Its not really a campaigning slogan “yeah you are better than the third **** world”.

The common factor is people are seeing their living standards drop compared to their parents. This has been somewhat masked by the improvement in technology accompanied by manufacturing boom in China otherwise it would have hit a lot harder a lot sooner.

The populists are actually offering to do something about it. Sure they are lying through their **** teeth but they claim to feel the peoples pain rather than go “have you compared yourself to the third world?”.

The comparison to Labour is an interesting one. Whilst the figures still are being finalised it doesnt look like Trumps vote changed much from 2020 its just the democrats dropped  four million.

So not dissimilar to the 2019 election where the tories basically held the same number whilst Labour dropped vs the 2024 where both Labour and the tories dropped but the tories collapsed absolutely.

I’m not close to the truth, it is the truth.

I see you have very eloquently skirted answering a direct question…

..kinda says it all, really.

I see you have very eloquently skirted answering a direct question…

I am not skirting the question eloquently, I am ignoring it. This discussion is about how the American people voted and why, it’s not about me and how I would have voted.

My point is that the presidential election result doesn’t prove that the majority of American voters are racist ****, as some on here seem to suggest. Every poll and political pundit appears to agree that the number one issue in this presidential election was the economy.

So there is the primary reason why people (including black and women) voted the way they did. Of course if that was their main concern they might well have made a big mistake, but I am not really in a position to say for sure that they have – the US economy did reasonably well during Trump’s first term, until the covid pandemic. I am not endorsing Trumps economic policies btw, I am simply making an observation.