Donald! Trump!

There is no left option in the US. Just right and further right. I believe that is a huge part of the problem.

A huge part of what problem? There is no real appetite in the country as a whole for what we would call the left, but why is that a problem to us ? Their issues are to a large degree internalised, and externally, we’re more affected by their current anti-globalisation policies, which aren’t really a left/right issue.

I didn’t say it was a problem to us. It is most definitely a problem for the poorer people in the US. This is the Trump thread isn’t it? Last time I checked he was in the US, thank ****!

https://x.com/JoshEakle/status/1852846929409130531

Explaining tariffs to a MAGA

Except unlike Argentina the ruling classes in the US are predominantly WASP’s and have been for a very long time.

I am not sure that explains why Argentina was one of the wealthiest nations on Earth a hundred years ago, or why the UK has been in decline for the last hundred years.

Btw uniquely in Latin America the British provided the backbone of the business community in Argentina. Post WW2 Argentina had the largest British community outside the British Empire/Commonwealth.

There is a reason why Bueno Aires had a Harrods, polo clubs, and British public schools.

It’s bizarre. They think a man whose businesses, including casinos, have gone bust multiple times, is such a whizz at business and economics that they are going to get higher wages, lower taxes, and lower inflation. They won’t of course, but just like the brexiters, they will then pivot to claiming that it wasn’t about money, but about freedom, as they watch 20 million people being rounded up into camps and deported. Oh wait, that won’t happen either, because Trump and all his mates are dependent on the cheap labour the immigrants supply.

Seen a few tweets from folk working for companies cancelling Xmas Bonuses as the company needs every cent to buy as much stock as it can ASAP to avoid tariffs. They are less than pleased.

Explaining tariffs to a MAGA

I reckon a chimp might get it quicker.

But that’s the level we are dealing with. And not just the US. The UK is full of mouth-breathing, cretinous philistines too.

 There is no real appetite in the country as a whole for what we would call the left, but why is that a problem to us ?

Well, aside from the fact that their carbon emissions affect us – I personally am not happy when people are getting shat on regardless of whether or not they were born in the same country as me.

bruneep
Full Member
https://x.com/JoshEakle/status/1852846929409130531

Explaining tariffs to a MAGA

Lord all mighty. Imagine voting Trump due to the cost of living, as many did, then having the effects of tariffs explained… then finding that it might make inflation go up again even on products not directly hit by tariffs as the price increases filter through the economy.

It would actually be amusing if it wasn’t so tragic. The thing is, he understood it once he took time to listen to it being explained, it’s just willful ignorance! That’s the annoying bit, he was almost proud of it. I bet he spends hours “explaining” bitcoin to his friends or anyone else that’s in earshot too! He’s practically a techbro.

As fender says, this isn’t just a US problem though… Sigh.

Well, aside from the fact that their carbon emissions affect us – I personally am not happy when people are getting shat on regardless of whether or not they were born in the same country as me.

Oh, for sure. But I think that there are many regimes that deserve our attention, anger,  and energy far more than Trump’s. Whilst he’s a despicable person, and a buffoon, most Americans will forgive him that if they feel they’re no longer being shat on.  And that, ultimately is what they’ll judge him on, and I think that’s a reasonable call for them to make.

And, as you’re well aware the US is a federation, with much of the culpability for its problems equally, or more so, blameable on its state governments. I spent several weeks last year travelling in the US, after not being there for 15 years or so, and of the places I visited the 2 states with what seemed to me to be the biggest decline in were California and Hawaii, both of which have longterm Democrat governments.

Has anyone ever found themselves skint?  And not only that but with no obvious routes out of being skint and basically resigning yourself to a life of disappointments and eventual death after many years of misery?

Most of my life, undiagnosed ms on top of a spinal injury meant I had periods of time where I did work but also periods of time where I relied on benefits, had umpteen issues working as the ms flared up multiple times a year which reduced me to crawling around/eysight issues/balance issues etc but docs refused to sign me off/told me I had nothing wrong with me so spent many weeks with no income at all.

Still live in the same 1bed bungalow I got from Dumfries/galloway council 30 years ago, still on disability benefits/housing paid for and spend every single pound I get on just attempting to exist but at no point have I ever considered that a “trump” or “Farage” style candidate is the one to vote for

I fully agree that our form of government/capitalism/taxation…whatever has utterly failed a vast swathe of the population over the previous 40 years but the likes of trump/Farage or other right wing populists is never the answer.

What is the answer?, I dunno if an answer or solution is now possible without a concerted effort involving every single western government to deal with such issues, and on top of the social issues we now have the effects of climate change, mass migration, trade wars, actual wars, destruction of natural resources etc..etc.

Time to admit, there is a swathe of the population that are ****

(if that above doesn’t make sense then ignore it, my meds are kicking in 😉

It would actually be amusing if it wasn’t so tragic. The thing is, he understood it once he took time to listen to it being explained, it’s just willful ignorance!

I’m not sure. For some people, maybe. For most, it’s being explained in a completely different way.

I’ve been listening to more Joe Rogan, because I’m trying to understand the mindset. Latest episode is with some ‘comedian and political commentator’ no idea who he is. They spend 20 minutes talking about a graph that shows historical vote counts for Republican and Democrat with conveniently odd patterns, which of course prove the 2020 election was rigged. 2 minutes research will tell you that it’s a completely fake graph, but here we are, with the biggest long form platform in the world, and one that people trust, and they’ll talk about this shit for hours in detail. Rogan is also very good at branding anyone who disagrees as a loser, so you have this natural pack mentality, which of course is normal human behaviour, because of you’re not part of the pack you’re going to get shit on. Then you have the likes of Elon Musk (who seems to be glued to Trump recently) using one of the biggest platforms in the world to share this kind of stuff also, whilst successfully getting the message across that he’s doing it to save us from misinformation.

Yes, people can dig deeper from a more balanced pot of information, and many do, but on an evolutionary scale that’s just not how the majority work. Thinking requires a lot of resource and energy. Most are happy to leave it to people they trust: the Musks and Rogans of the world. If you have somebody who makes cars drive themselves, and land rockets like Thunderbirds, they must know what they’re talking about.

What’s even scarier, is that I get the sense even Musk believes some of this stuff. My only hypothesis for that is that he’s at the peak of the Dunning Kruger effect across multiple different subjects. It’s an impossibility to have the expertise in the number of subjects he believes he does.

I try to be optimistic about the future but some days I just think we’re ****ed.

Apologies if this is a duplicate, it’s a long thread.

https://twitter.com/EricLDaugh/status/1855001866343424409

Eric Daugherty
@EricLDaugh
#NEW: Trump team is readying a “slate of executive orders” slashing climate change directives, bolstering fossil fuels – NYT

This includes:
– Pulling out of the Paris climate agreement
– Shrinking national monument size in the west to allow more drilling, mining
– Ending every office in every agency that works to end pollution on the basis of diversity
Last edited
9:38 PM · Nov 8, 2024

Anyone seen The Apprentice yet?

Trump must be absolutely consumed with rage.

On a purely apolitical level, he is an absolutely repulsive  human being. There is no redemption arc.

I just caught up with the election thread. Has our pet Trump supporter gone away? Shame if so, I was reminded of this:

Cougar2
Free Member
I just caught up with the election thread. Has our pet Trump supporter gone away?

I think he’s just realised that China doesn’t pay the tariffs Trump is going to impose… so is re-evaluating his position.

In fairness, he was polite from memory.

In fairness, he was polite from memory.

Sure.

I’m a firm believer in calling bollocks out as bollocks. And, there was a lot of bollocks. But play the ball not the man (something I fail at sometimes). Calling people trolls for the crime of disagreeing with you does neither side any favours (something else I fail at sometimes).

Trump wins Arizona to complete a clean sweep of the seven swing states

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/trump-wins-arizona-swing-states-b2644413.html

Well that’s impressive, I wonder when was the last time that anyone managed to do that? No one can argue that Trump hasn’t got a clear mandate.

Considering the sort of deeply divisive person that Trump is this will no doubt simply feed the growing polarisation of American society.

I know it’s de rigueur on here to attack people who disagree and call them idiots but it’s ironic the people doing so don’t actually understand the subject they are spouting on about.

Considering the sort of deeply divisive person that Trump is this will no doubt simply feed the growing polarisation of American society.

The likelihood is the polarisation will get more and more baked in – not just in terms of rhetoric. Something that has started to happen as things have become more deadlocked nationally is people are voting with their feet and moving to a state that matches their political preference .

Compared to the quite fickle voting patterns in the uk where we can have quite large swing from one party to the other the US vote share has become more and fixed in recent years. Really quite small margins between presidential candidates, the senate has been pretty much balanced 50:50 for the last 25 years and the House is steadily getting closer and closer towards deadlock too

The founding fathers really had no idea about how to write a robust constitution did they?

Someone should have done them a favour and taken their pens and paper away.

I think the concept of an electoral college as a tool to choose a president is hard to justify imo.

people are voting with their feet and moving to a state that matches their political preference .

That isn’t something that I had thought about but it makes sense. And presumably will add to the centrifugal forces which might eventually lead to the breakup of the Union?

So many US states seem to have so little in common with each other.

Have we touched on the weirdness of Trump, right before the election that seemed so close that no-one would call it, saying multiple times that people don’t need to vote?

https://www.threads.net/@randi.mayem.singer/post/DCCrpwxytiJ?xmt=AQGz89qELyzly0moAF_wXYCBpmru-ZfeEABC_XKf4oyshQ

Just bragging. It’s his MO.

Yeah there’s no need to make up some stupid conspiracy theory shit when he’s just saying his polling shows he’s going to win by miles.

Can we stop laughing at USA citizens voting for trade tariffs and clamping down on immigrants…? We’ve been voting for that for a while in the UK. It’s default politics here now… politicians proposing anything else are like Kryptonite to the key “town & country” voters that swing elections.

Trump made gains with almost all demographics, perhaps Democrats could try listening to and addressing the concerns of ordinary people rather than labelling them all as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving morons.

And presumably will add to the centrifugal forces which might eventually lead to the breakup of the Union?

Eventually?? I recall speaking to quite a few US tourists around 8 years ago, just before the first Trump presidency. They were mostly from California and when I inquired about the option of ceding from the USA they just couldn’t get their heads around the concept at all. It was like we were suddenly speaking a different language.

perhaps Democrats could try listening to and addressing the concerns of ordinary people rather than labelling them all as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving morons.

That didn’t happen, but you’ve made your position clear.

The US has elected a criminal, and taken off the safeties that should reign in a rogue prez.

Watch affordable care and social security be rolled back. Watch California burn some more and Florida get washed away. Tax cuts for the very, very rich? Yes please.

Once that’s done the trailer park people will feel better about the economy, right?

Bad things will happen, it will go wrong, and a snap back to a more inclusive politic will seem welcome in 4 years.

@maccruiskeen’s interesting chart shows what a similar landslide Nixon got in ‘72; his criminality was only confirmed later.

perhaps Democrats could try listening to and addressing the concerns of ordinary people rather than labelling them all as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving morons.

I worked for a company with the HQ in Houston.

The well paid operational jobs, who went in the field, were 100% white.

There were a few black people in the warehouse and none in the management & admin office jobs.

The USA is still fundamentally a racist country.

Trump is a racist misogynist. Of that there is no doubt.

As for fascism, he did declare a desire for “Generals like Hitler’s”. There’s also the little matter of Project 2025.

If you are not a racist misogynistic idiot don’t vote for someone who is.

And presumably will add to the centrifugal forces which might eventually lead to the breakup of the Union?

Eventually?? I recall speaking to quite a few US tourists around 8 years ago, just before the first Trump presidency. They were mostly from California and when I inquired about the option of ceding from the USA they just couldn’t get their heads around the concept at all. It was like we were suddenly speaking a different language.

This is mostly a Russian-bot phenomena (just now anyway) – there was a ‘Calexit’ social media trend in the days after Trump’s first victory, but all initially originating from Russian troll accounts.

Theres is however  a bit of secessionist movement among republicans in Texas  – 10 new state legislature representatives elected this time round that are campaigning for an independence referendum. Across all the elected posts that we’re on the ballot last week (county commissioners, sheriffs, judges, dog catchers as so on) 190 were independence campaigners.

Here’s a video produced by “Led by Donkeys” out of the U.K. that puts down the timeline of how Musk used X to get Donald Trump elected. I would save it because I don’t think it will be up for long. pic.twitter.com/cUpCL4ghMn

— Hey, Dave! (@davegreenidge57) November 9, 2024

Is Elon going to get his money’s worth? It seems likely.

but all initially originating from Russian troll accounts.

Not all I think. The California National Party is a centre-left party and I dunno but I think it enjoys a bit more support than the Russian backed right-wing Yes California party, although still nothing significant.

rather than labelling them all as racist, misogynistic, transphobic, fascism loving morons

This argument feels so familiar. Trump’s TV campaigns used transphobia to try and move more socially conservative voters in swing states toward voting for him, or at least not voting for Harris. Pointing this out is not labelling “all” ordinary people transphobic, it is simply looking at the tactics used. Same goes for deliberate dog whistles about immigrants eating pets, or expressing respect for demagogic leaders and nods towards “never having to vote again”… this all need calling out when politicians do it, and to do so is not labelling “ordinary people” anything, it is examining how the political classes (yes, Trump is a politician through and through) garner support to win power.

You argument also feels familiar. To take your transphobia example there’s many people who think giving children puberty blockers/cross sex hormones/surgery and having biological men compete in womens sport is a bad idea. They have valid reasons for thinking this, instead of engaging with them and presenting the counter argument all too often they’re labelled as transphobic and dismissed which just further entrenches people into their positions.

Until everyone manages to calm down and starts engaging with people who have a different opinion to them rather than just accusing them of some ism the polarisation will continue.

The over use of all the isms just makes them meaningless.

I’ve made no comment about those people, or their concerns… only on the tactics used by the politicians.

Fair enough.

I just saw some interesting polling on this point by Blueprint (I hadn’t heard of them before). For this polling group at least, it was the No. 1 reason given by swing voters that didn’t support Harris.

Why America Chose Trump: Inflation, Immigration, and the Democratic Brand

Talking to non MAGA Americans the other day – they just seem the value of their dollar shrink. They know as finance professionals that the underlying causes are world events but still blame the Democratic Party.