Donald! Trump!

#SecondAmmendmentSolutions

Manufacturing jobs have already started to return from China to the US and espcially to Mexico.

The only reason China is still economically competetive with the rest of the manufacturing world (Turkey/Mexico/India/Bangladesh) is due to manipulation of their currency…another Trumpfact thats actually just a fact.

If Trump does lable China a currency manipulator and it’s approved by the senate, imported Chinese goods would face an automatic 27% import fee ontop of any other imports fees.

This could lead to low skilled manufacturing jobs returning to the US in the near term…problematically, high tech manufacturing jobs woudn’t return nearly so quickly. China is especially well setup for this type of manufacturng and assembly now after decades of investment by both the chinese goverment and foreign companies. So, americans would possibly bring back some jobs, but would pay higher prices for tech goods assembled elsewhere.

“The only reason China is still economically competetive with the rest of the manufacturing world (Turkey/Mexico/India/Bangladesh) is due to manipulation of their currency…another Trumpfact thats actually just a fact.
If Trump does lable China a currency manipulator and it’s approved by the senate, imported Chinese goods would face an automatic 27% import fee ontop of any other imports fees.
This could lead to low skilled manufacturing jobs returning to the US in the near term…problematically, high tech manufacturing jobs woudn’t return nearly so quickly. China is especially well setup for this type of manufacturng and assembly now after decades of investment by both the chinese goverment and foreign companies. So, americans would possibly bring back some jobs, but would pay higher prices for tech goods assembled elsewhere.”

I accept all of this. But it leaves the question: Why haven’t previous regimes done it?

Trump looks like he’s sitting himself in that video work Obama, h es, just had good cheers security briefing by the big boys, do I think it may be dawning on him, what his new job actually entails.

Former employee on the radio was saying that Trump didn’t like working every day, and quite often couldn’t be reached, things are gonna change…. Or he’ll just delegate everything to his republican Bible thumping staff 😯

If tartifs were put on Chinese good would that mean everything made in China would go up ? So basically every computer and phone? !

Re death threats to Trump, I’m sure Obama has had many more, although suppose trumps creditors will be added to this list 😉

The bigger picture is that here in the west, people want to have their cake and eat it, and have had 30 years of politicians telling them that that’s exactly what they can have. They want cheap consumer goods, but don’t want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don’t want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren’t prepared to save for them. They don’t want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren’t prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it. Add to that the fact that they see celebrity culture shoved down their throats every day by the media showing them that the rich don’t have to live by the same constraints as everyone else, and the result is millions of spoilt children who can’t do anything other than shout ‘it’s not fair!’ and throw a tantrum.

Maybe massive social upheaval and destruction is required to shake people our of their fantasy world? It definitely seems to be headed that way.

Agreed Dazh

Agreed Dazh

+1

The Reagan comparison is an interesting one. In many ways he oversaw (caused might be going to far) the problems that led to the current election.
It was during his administration that semi-skilled and skilled manual jobs were lost to automation and foreign economies. And there was a lot of pain for the have nots. Check out the music of the time -Springsteen perhaps.
The haves of course did splendidly.
And that problem hasn’t been solved yet.

And perhaps it can’t be (at least not as Trump describes it), because if the trade barriers go up, it is manufacturing that will return not necessarily jobs. Why? Because if you build manufacturing capacity today you build it around robots not people. Think about car plants, steel making – they’re the obvious ones, but all manufacturing will be like this to some extent.

There probably will be a solution – but not this one.

WHAT Dazh said and by the spade load- we want contradictory things so we are open to folk promising undeliverable BS

To dimiss Trump and many of those who voted for him by saying that they are unfit to hold office or stupid and that democracy has failed, is arguably flawed prejudiced reasoning.

No its not unless you want President pussy grab racist as your leader

I think supporters of the American democratic system can make a compelling argument that the Trump phenomenon is succesful democracy in action.

The one with the least votes just won the election.

it’s always the weak and the poor who suffer most during major upheavals.

Aye the one who voted him into power are the ones, like Brexit, who are going to pay the price for it.

I think the chance of Trump even trying to help the poor – though he may well try to help America with isolationist policies – that others will retaliate to making everyone worse off – ie steel tariffs to Mexico and china who then put tariff on so he puts tarrifs on etc]

“The bigger picture is that here in the west, people want to have their cake and eat it, and have had 30 years of politicians telling them that that’s exactly what they can have. They want cheap consumer goods, but don’t want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don’t want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren’t prepared to save for them. They don’t want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren’t prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it.”

+1 to all that except the words of the politicians are a symptom, not a cause.

Good post that, Dazh

Reagan is interesting ‘cos history treats him well- mainly because of his rapprochement with the USSR and the various bomb reduction treaties.

EVIL.

Tj:

Regan didn’t help the middle East, armed Iran rebels stoking sectarianism and Saddam, catastrophic in Lebanon its never settled down since (it was no basket of roses b4 him obvs)

“Does anyone have a view (based on knowledge or experience not opinion) if Trump can actually make good on his promise to bring back manufacturing to the rust belt states?”

No it’s a pipe dream – like all gesture politics. And the losers? The poor folk who believe it.

“stoking sectarianism and Saddam,”

Putting/Keeping Saddam in place was very wise. Both at the time and especially in hindsight.

Trade tariffs will only work if there’s an alternative, like with cars. Americans drive around in shite cars because foreign cars are expensive to them.

I’m not sure they’re going to be able to produce LCD tellies and phones very easily though. So people will start feeling poor when suddenly they can’t afford cheap consumer goods, and the ones they need start taking up more of their income.

What Dazh said plus I would add that its easier to borrow money than to save with our historic low interest rates, there is no encouragement to save or invest.

For those saying Trump isn’t racist; we can engage in semantics about Mexicans and muslims not being races but overall when you say the things Trump has done, you’re a racist. If he doesn’t believe what he says it’s not somehow “better”, it’s almost worse because it indicates his willingness to debase and compromise himself in order to appeal to racists and it’s not easy to know what depths he’s prepared to plumb.

Ditto for misogyny.

Trumps says that the current protests are “unfair”.
Wah! Wah! Wah! It no fair! Etc.
😆

the politicians are a symptom, not a cause.

Yes but the politicians are in the unique position of being able to guide and change attitudes and have access to information which the rest of us don’t. It’s their job to deal with these issues and do what’s in the long term interests of the country (probably being naive there!). They can’t absolve themselves of this responsibility just because it might make them unpopular. I guess this is the major weakness of democracy. You don’t see the Chinese govt setting policy based on opinion polls.

Trumps says that the current protests are “unfair”.
Wah! Wah! Wah! It no fair! Etc

What do the protestors want, another election?

They want cheap consumer goods, but don’t want manufacturing jobs to be lost to China. They want good public services but don’t want to pay the taxes that pay for them. They want gold plated pensions, but aren’t prepared to save for them. They don’t want to do shitty menial jobs, but complain when foreigners are brought in to do them. They want a clean environment, but aren’t prepared to change their behaviour to deliver it.

This is obvious to any people that have a level of awareness and reasoning. The problem is that nobody is making this clear to those that don’t.

It needs to be made simple and clear based on the areas you have listed
– Pensions. People are living longer so more money needs to go into them (your money)
– NHS. People are living longer and there are more people so more money needs to go into it (your money)
– Immigration. Country is making profit from immigration and immigrants are not taking your jobs, they are filling gaps/bringing skills/doing jobs UK people don’t want to do
– Environment. Not convinced the masses really care about it…

Or you could just not bother with that and blame it all on immigrants

What do the protestors want, another election?

they probably just want to express their angry dismay that the country just voted a racist espousing woman groping egomaniac as leader of their country.

Its not hard to see why folk are a wee but angry at this outcome whether you agree with them or not.

Always surprises me how americans have no issue with the electoral college not reflecting the actual votes cast as they did not “really” win and why they dont just add up all the votes and declare that person the most popular.

NB I do understand the system I just dont think it is that good.

Trumps says that the current protests are “unfair”.
Wah! Wah! Wah! It no fair! Etc

😆

“they probably just want to express their angry dismay that the country just voted a racist espousing woman groping egomaniac as leader of their country.”

Yeah, but the alternative candidate has carried out Extra-Judicial Assassinations, of brown people.

Yeah, but the alternative candidate has carried out Extra-Judicial Assassinations, of brown people.

Well in that case clearly Trump is none of the things I said and my explanation false.
Is this ninfans new log in ?

Yes of course voting Trump was two fingers up at the establishment..like he’s not part of it.. 🙄

@slowster interesting post and the Regan point is a very good one, widely regarded in the US as the best American President for a long time. @tj many outside the US tried to cast him and Thatcher as about to start WW3 somewhat would ironic if true. When Obama came to power I was so optimistic, the first black Presidemt and a progressive democrat. He leaves with race relations at an all time low and has been terrible in terms of foreign policy especially in Iraq amdwith Iran, he has had some domestic success and by avoding the mob calls to crush the banks made a profit on the bailout and has seen the economy recover.

@dazh agreed, like I say people want to buy bike parts from the internet at the lowest possible price never mind the cost to the local economy when the bike shop closes. A small owner run business paying taxes and giving work experiemce to kids and trainee mechanics vs box shifting mail order with zero-hoir contracts and revenue booked offshore.

@out I don’t think an example exists of bringing manufacturing back on a large scale. We have seen Europe protect their market share via tariffs and both China and Germany have a deliberately undervalued currency

American cars ? All BMW X5’s are made in the US and the Honda I had there was built in Ohio. Americans like a certain type of (larger) car and they are cheap as is petrol.

Lets see what Trump can do with Apple, Google etc. By my calc Apple alone has avoided $100bn in US taxes. It does seem very bizarre to me that a country with such low personal taxes has such high rates of corporate tax.

Yeah, but the alternative candidate has carried out Extra-Judicial Assassinations, of brown people.

erm so has obama and cameron, your point?

they probably just want to express their angry dismay that the country just voted a racist espousing woman groping egomaniac as leader of their country.

When democracy doesn’t work, people take to the streets. Some will say in this case that democracy has worked, because it’s resulted in an outsider rising to power, but the US system is designed to prevent this, and now we see why.

If nothing else it shows trump and his supporters that everyone who rejects racism, mysogyny, casual violence and wilful ignorance will not lie down and be trampled over. Grassroots movements like this hardly ever result in direct change, but they influence future events and policy and drag the pendulum back the other way.

“clearly Trump is none of the things I said and my explanation false.”

Probably.

He leaves with race relations at an all time low and has been terrible in terms of foreign policy especially

just imagine what Trump can manage!

Lets see what Trump can do with Apple, Google etc. By my calc Apple alone has avoided $100bn in US taxes. It does seem very bizarre to me that a country with such low personal taxes has such high rates of corporate tax.

Chump: Hey Apple, we think that you’re not paying enough tax. Could you hand over your accounts, please?
Apple: No probs, you go first.
😆

“so has obama and cameron”

Agree. I have no idea why Hillary’s got tarred with all the fallout from the stuff America has done while people equally/more involved got out of it blameless.

Because she is a woman?

Probably

when did you just do this

WHY?
its a bit pointless to snipe childishly form the sidelines

My explanation is sound,
your argument, such that is, is poor.
your trolling is average,
My interest is waning,
My poetry is crap
Like your posts
😉

Trump is talking about growing the economy not creating jobs now.

It may be semantics but watch out poor people you might be about to get Reaganed*.

*well thought of by some Americans – but definitely not all.

“@out I don’t think an example exists of bringing manufacturing back on a large scale. We have seen Europe protect their market share via tariffs and both China and Germany have a deliberately undervalued currency”

I’m inclined to agree, I think Trump’s economic plan won’t even start. It’s Corbynomics, debunked in the 70’s.