doctors on strike

The dentists get paid well, reflecting their training and commitment. I sacrifice other more frivolous expenditure to pay for their excellent service.

Well MrsGrahamS has just headed out to join the picket line in Newcastle. As we speak she’ll be huddled round a smouldering fire in a makeshift brazier, shivering away in a donkey jacket and her Jimmy Choos

Sounds so New Labour. Tony and Co would have been very proud. So why is old labour (the current lot) largely sitting on the fence here. Not enough Jezza whipping going on??

ceepers …

Do you know how much you need to spend to study a medical degree if you are from the far east? Millions (in their currency) and most cannot afford the tuition fees. A bit like asking the UK students to spend millions to study for a medical degree … will you pay that amount?

Many want to become doctors but just don’t have the funding unlike here in the UK …

Also being a medical doctor is a prestigious profession so there is a “membership restriction” impose on certain people …

Others do not want to become doctors because they are not meant to be in that profession not because they are not clever rather just not interested in that profession.

Same with studying to become dentist …

I’m not saying dentists are badly paid, I was just making the point that the government imposing a contract that the profession viewed as unfair (which would effectively either cut their wages or increase the hours worked for the same remuneration) and also a contract they told the government was a bad idea which would affect patient care turned out to indeed adversely affect patient care and the accessibility of the service, just as the profession predicted.

I think it’s A kind of parallel but this thread isn’t about teeth (yet, although I’m sure 7 day working for dental services is one of the next planned steps)

As far as course fees go, I agree the costs in the uk are peanuts compared to other countries but many, many other things are different in other countries too so comparing has a limited validity. Increasing the costs of training would only either reduce the numbers wanting to do the job or mean they would demand better remuneration (as they get in some other countries) this would only serve to further push the system towards the private sector.

If you don’t want monkeys you have to pay more than peanuts in any part of life. You’ve also kind of proved my point in that, people do a healthcare job because they want to help people, not because of the cash. I was just pointing out that if it was as cushy a job as was implied above (ie easier and less stressful for tonnes of cash) then surely those lorry drivers mentioned would be medics instead.

A medical student isn’t paid more than a lorry driver. Anecdotal or not.

And I would like to know working hours limits for an HGV driver compared to a junior doctor too.
As we know tiredness kills.

Last time I checked, medical students aren’t paid at all!

There’s either some masterful trolling going on here orvsme people really do need a good hard kick in the crunchy bits.

And now he it’s confirmed he’s imposing it.

complete and utter tosser of a man. A shit who’s imposing something with no evidence because he thinks it’s a good thing for him politically.

I’d type more but the swear filter seems to be a bit less asterisky than it used to be.

It’s has more than it use to so feel free to a call him a **** ****.

Watching him live in Parliament now.

I’ve rarely felt the desire to punch my monitor more.

**** ****.

HAve they done this to drive doctors away so the service can suffer and they can then privatise it as its another failing service – ignoring the fact they set out to make it fail

Unlikely the Drs and the BMA wont react to this.

HAve they done this to drive doctors away so the service can suffer and they can then privatise it as its another failing service – ignoring the fact they set out to make it fail

That’s the only conclusion I can reach. The bad guys here…. they’re not stupid. It would be nice to think that this mess exists because they’re too stupid to help themselves and they might do as little as possible to stop that appearance. 🙁

That and so they can attack others who get paid unsociable hours in order to reduce their pay.

Well at least they cant take any of my unsociable hours pay off me.

It is a real shame the public cannot have a vote to decide this.
And then have a vote on MP`s contract of employment.

As others here have previously correctly said. Its just a way of running down the NHS, so enough The Sun/Daily Mail morons start screaming for privatisation.

We see this with the government encouraging hospitals to employ agency nurses on over double what they pay normal nurses. And employing foreign qualified nurses, who can hardly speak English, as nursing assistants. Then juggling the books to show they have employed qualified nurses AND nursing assistants … when really both are one of the same.
Things are getting worse a lot quicker under the Tory`s.

Scotland announce extra £23m to boost medical school applications

They’re not stupid up there…

It is a real shame the public cannot have a vote to decide this.

They did at the general election. Governments do stuff you don’t like get over it, happens to all of us.

That SNP announcement is a reaction to the fact Scotland’s medical schools have the most privileged intake of any in the UK. It’s nothing to do with the Junior doctor issue in England.

England’s NHS was also found to perform better than Scotland’s, when looked at in 2014, although the gap was narrowing.

Well at least they cant take any of my unsociable hours pay off me.

Well given you don’t work for the NHS it wouldn’t matter anyway.

They did at the general election. Governments do stuff you don’t like get over it, happens to all of us.

Doesn’t mean we have to accept it.

Ultimately this is no different to what the Tory’s did in the 80’s with the miners and printworkers. The tactics are the same. Its just a different target this time.

They have a long term plan. And this is part of it. They want to privatise the NHS. So they have to put things in place ready for that to happen. Private healthcare providers want to inherit staff with reduced terms and conditions so that they can make more money. Simple as that.

So they’re going to provoke a massive confrontation, with their friends in the media onside, to then employ whatever tactics necessary to crush the unions and thus drive through their reforms ready for their mates to take over and make a killing.

It really is that simple.

They’re involved in the same type of thing with the police. Preparing to hand forces over wholesale to G4S and Serco. The only difference is that the police can’t strike.

I don’t get any unsocial hrs payment to take away.

Think they’ll stop at NHS? They’l look at every PS worker and reduce their T&C’s

England’s NHS was also found to perform better than Scotland’s, when looked at in 2014, although the gap was narrowing.

It’ll probably narrow much more quickly now as Drs from England vote with their feet and move to other parts of the UK.

Someone’s updated his wikipedia page…

I don’t get any unsocial hrs payment to take away

I know.

Think they’ll stop at NHS? They’l look at every PS worker and reduce their T&C’s

They started along time ago.

I don’t get any unsocial hrs payment to take away.

If you have any antisocial hours in your regular working time, your package/contract reflects that.

Doctors have antisocial hours in their working times, and part of the issue is about the redefinition of what’s antisocial.

Work days/ nights/ weekdays/weekends do difference in pay

Working 0300 on a Sunday morning same pay as working 1000 Monday

It is a real shame the public cannot have a vote to decide this.
And then have a vote on MP`s contract of employment.

I believe we did, last year.
I am awaiting the schadenfreude of my elderly mother complaining about the state of the NHS when I will have the opportunity to remind her that she voted for it.

bruneep – Member

Work days/ nights/ weekdays/weekends do difference in pay

Working 0300 on a Sunday morning same pay as working 1000 Monday

Yes, but you’re likely paid more for all your hours than someone doing the equivalent job mon-fri 9-5.

People on a different set of T&C’s to me in my job get a ~5% bonus in return for not being paid overtime (but still expected to work it). I ‘missed out’ on that offer, get paid overtime, but get less money in my normal paycheck.

From FB;

Bruneep – that’s exactly what the (old) junior doctors’ contract looked like. And look what’s just happened to us…

Yes, but you’re likely paid more for all your hours than someone doing the equivalent job mon-fri 9-5

You’d think that wouldn’t you.

Sadly I think that with the imposition of the new Junior Doctor’s contracts it’ll spell the beginning of the end for the NHS as we know it.
As with a few others on here I’ve seen it change from the inside over the past few years and im not sure how they’re managing it but it all seems to be getting set up for a spectacular failure.

I honestly believe that once they push this through with they’ll then move onto the nurses, then it’ll be ambulance staff, admin staff etc until they’ve royally screwed everyone. It’s nothing more than a race to the bottom and I hope I’m not about to witness it.

I’m struggling with the posts by some people on here, they appear to be either blatant trolls or weapons-grade *****, I’m honestly not sure which!

Err … they do. Every 5 years. Hadn’t you noticed?

And the public voted that they wanted the NHS **** up, welfare for poor people cut, lower taxes for Google and Facebook, libraries closed etc etc etc.

But that is OK because the Etonians in the manor house said it is for the best, and we mustn’t grumble, must we?

So my wife and I sat there listening to the news break, and just quietly agreed that “a very large number of junior doctors are going to leave the NHS or quit medicine”.
No two ways about it.

The NHS is, to put it bluntly, now f’ed.

Training numbers are down, medical school recruitment is down, primary care (GP) recruitment vs retirement/emigration is in completely the wrong direction…
And yet patient numbers, demand, and expectation is on the up up up….

Answers on a postcard please…
If it doesn’t include the phrase “..All major credit cards accepted…” then think again…

DrP

I’ve just accidentally applied for my Certificate of Good Standing from the GMC to be allowed to apply to work overseas. I picked Vancouver from the drop down menu they helpfully provide – I’ve heard it’s nice over there…

I’ve just accidentally applied for my Certificate of Good Standing from the GMC to be allowed to apply to work overseas. I picked Vancouver from the drop down menu they helpfully provide – I’ve heard it’s nice over there…

I don’t blame you. I’d probably do exactly the same if I was in your position. In fact I think we all would!

I know a fair few of my friends from hospital days have done just that as an ‘example’, rather than actually intending to naff off….
But… I’m sure now a lot of them will be giving a LOT of thought to what was initially meant as a demonstrative action.

The number of GP colleagues whose facebook feeds are all “me in Oz… look how sunny perth is… i’m on the beach again whilst DrP wakes up due to driving rain on the roof…etc…etc” is getting a bit grating and worrying in equal quantities!

DrP

The number of GP colleagues whose facebook feeds are all “me in Oz… look how sunny perth is… i’m on the beach again whilst DrP wakes up due to driving rain on the roof…etc…etc” is getting a bit grating and worrying in equal quantities!

I’ve lost 2 climbing partners in the past year to doctoring in australia… They’re screwing with my trad grade.

Fortunately the current one has signed up to a seven year palliative care program…

That being said we decided to take six months out to go travelling and visiting some of these friends in Australia, NZ and Canada in no small part so that my OH can try to decide if it’s something she’d be prepared to do.

Personally I can understand anyone in the NHS who’s able to gain work elsewhere doing so, I’m just hoping that they don’t.

Corbyn:

You’ll be lucky to get a job in Perth / Western Australia right now, same applies for parts of Canada like Calgary and Edmonton as all have falling economies.

In fact you have to wonder if this fact gives Hunt a calculated bit more leverage than previously.